Low and Slow vs. High Heat
- Thread starter Chuck_B
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j biesinger
TVWBB Platinum Member
not sure how temp can effect taste. Exterior texture, interior tenderness, and uniformity in doneness maybe, but taste?
You mention that you prefer low and slow, I'm curious to know how much high heat you've done. And what do you consider low and slow? Most of us around here have found that running the wsm without water and at grate temps above 250* make the operation much less complicated and has little downside in terms of taste and tenderness.
The reason why I like HH is that I can cook. I spend a significant amount of my time on cooking and yet I still rarely find time to do all day or overnight cooks. If I didn't have the HH option, my wsm would never get used except for chicken and ribs.
thats what I think
I agree with J. One other thing, when you do butts low and slow the window of opportunity is a lot greater on an overnighter than a brisket overnighter. On a low and slow doing a brisket when I reach a certain temp I'm testing frequently for tenderness. For me the HH brisket process is soooo much easier. Granted, I miss the bark but I can always toss it back on for a little bit to crisp it up
I think there's a lot of perceived value with slow and low. Its more labor intensives, takes longer, etc therefor it has to be a better product. In reality high heat cooks produce plenty of award winning bbq. I think some of it depends on if the cook wants to learn a new method or not. If you already turn out good q low and slow, its easy to blame the learning curve of hot and fast on it being a poor method more than just the cook not being skilled at it yet.
Ron G.
TVWBB Wizard
I think that there's a time for low-n-slow, and a time for high heat:
LOW & SLOW:
(When you have the luxury of time)
For stuff that has a LOT of fat & connective tissue, where you really want to give it time to break-down, cook-down, & tenderize
-Whole Briskets (I have not done this yet)
-Large Butts / Shoulder
-Whole hog (I can't picture cooking a whole one quickly)
However, from what I've been hearing, after the meat reachges a certain temperature or time quotient, the affects of further smoke are minimal.
HIGH HEAT:
Can be used for nearly anything - but IMHO, seems to work best for smaller stuff, and stuff with less fat & connective tissue.
(Stuff that would be prone to drying-out if done low-n-slow):
-Poultry
-Brisket Flats (particularly, when well-trimmed)
-Sausage
-Finishing / crisping stuff that had previously been low & slow
I'm also certain that, as usual, there are exceptions in both cases.
LOW & SLOW:
(When you have the luxury of time)
For stuff that has a LOT of fat & connective tissue, where you really want to give it time to break-down, cook-down, & tenderize
-Whole Briskets (I have not done this yet)
-Large Butts / Shoulder
-Whole hog (I can't picture cooking a whole one quickly)
However, from what I've been hearing, after the meat reachges a certain temperature or time quotient, the affects of further smoke are minimal.
HIGH HEAT:
Can be used for nearly anything - but IMHO, seems to work best for smaller stuff, and stuff with less fat & connective tissue.
(Stuff that would be prone to drying-out if done low-n-slow):
-Poultry
-Brisket Flats (particularly, when well-trimmed)
-Sausage
-Finishing / crisping stuff that had previously been low & slow
I'm also certain that, as usual, there are exceptions in both cases.
I haven't found any difference in flavor with briskets cooked L&S vs HH. With those, the shorter cook time is convenient. Now with butts or picnics, I prefer L&S as I feel pork fat breaks down differently, more completely, than that of beef. I always cook my butts L&S; just my preference.
Paul
Paul
Dave W (Demosthenes9)
TVWBB Member
It's been my experience that "exterior texture, interior tenderness and uniformity" all affect the taste.
R. Hanson ("Rondo")
TVWBB Pro
Done it both ways a bunch of times...some prefer Chevys some prefer Fords... both are just fine
In the end its a matter of time at temp, not how you get to temp, that makes a pork butt or brisket tender and moist
Low and Slow for many hours @ around 225* or HH for a relatively short time with a looong, insulated rest at temp seem to yield similar finished products...
Bryan Boulier
New member
I cook both ways, especially ribs and butts (Eastern Carolina style). I like ribs cooked low and slow best (on the Weber Smoker or with firebricks in the Weber grill), but they are also great grilled. The ones that are grilled are "chewier" but equally as tasty. Best reason for cooking them with a hi temps is that you can cook them in 1.5 or 2 hours.
Pulled pork is good either way. If I have the time and want a large quantity, I will go with the smoker. But, if I have a yen for some Carolina BBQ now (!), I will go with the grill. Very tasty and almost as good.
I especially appreciate the smoker with items like pastrami or bacon, where a grill is not a good alternative. Speaking of which, today my wife found some forgotten bacon made last fall in the freezer. Outstanding supper!
Pulled pork is good either way. If I have the time and want a large quantity, I will go with the smoker. But, if I have a yen for some Carolina BBQ now (!), I will go with the grill. Very tasty and almost as good.
I especially appreciate the smoker with items like pastrami or bacon, where a grill is not a good alternative. Speaking of which, today my wife found some forgotten bacon made last fall in the freezer. Outstanding supper!
[/QUOTE]
not sure how temp can effect taste. Exterior texture, interior tenderness, and uniformity in doneness maybe, but taste?
You mention that you prefer low and slow, I'm curious to know how much high heat you've done. And what do you consider low and slow? Most of us around here have found that running the wsm without water and at grate temps above 250* make the operation much less complicated and has little downside in terms of taste and tenderness.
The reason why I like HH is that I can cook. I spend a significant amount of my time on cooking and yet I still rarely find time to do all day or overnight cooks. If I didn't have the HH option, my wsm would never get used except for chicken and ribs.
thats what I think
[/QUOTE]
The "I can cook" sounds like you think I have no idea how to cook. Is it because I have just over 30 posts on this board? Real quick, I'm 29, come from a family of off the boat italians, many of which are chefs. No not "hey my mom can cook" (which she can
) I mean chefs! One is head chef in one of the most reconized restaurants in NYC and others that own their own restaurants and are the heads chefs. I've been cooking for 20 years and coming from that kind of family, I know how to cook. I haven't been smoking meat using a WSM or other smoker for 20yrs but BBQing using everything under the sun and whole lamb/Pig roasts have been all to common.
Now in response to your reply, when I say taste I mean I have done briskets and pork butts both ways, prepared them the same ways and cooked to the same internal temps; I cooked L&S at 225 and HH at 325. Both meats using HH, the inside of the meats were not as moist all around as when I did L&S, Bark was not as good, and they were not as tender. BTW, I don't know how you can say interior tenderness does not affects the taste...I can live with the bark not being as good if I had to but interior tenderness??? Isn't that what it's all about?
It is very hard to find the time to really cook at low temps I agree but I'd rather take the time for brisket and pork butt.
not sure how temp can effect taste. Exterior texture, interior tenderness, and uniformity in doneness maybe, but taste?
You mention that you prefer low and slow, I'm curious to know how much high heat you've done. And what do you consider low and slow? Most of us around here have found that running the wsm without water and at grate temps above 250* make the operation much less complicated and has little downside in terms of taste and tenderness.
The reason why I like HH is that I can cook. I spend a significant amount of my time on cooking and yet I still rarely find time to do all day or overnight cooks. If I didn't have the HH option, my wsm would never get used except for chicken and ribs.
thats what I think
The "I can cook" sounds like you think I have no idea how to cook. Is it because I have just over 30 posts on this board? Real quick, I'm 29, come from a family of off the boat italians, many of which are chefs. No not "hey my mom can cook" (which she can
Now in response to your reply, when I say taste I mean I have done briskets and pork butts both ways, prepared them the same ways and cooked to the same internal temps; I cooked L&S at 225 and HH at 325. Both meats using HH, the inside of the meats were not as moist all around as when I did L&S, Bark was not as good, and they were not as tender. BTW, I don't know how you can say interior tenderness does not affects the taste...I can live with the bark not being as good if I had to but interior tenderness??? Isn't that what it's all about?
It is very hard to find the time to really cook at low temps I agree but I'd rather take the time for brisket and pork butt.
Dave W (Demosthenes9)
TVWBB Member
Chuck, I think you might have misinterpreted what he meant by that.
By my reading, "I can cook" just meant that cooking at HH actually allows him to use his Smoker frequently whereas if he could only do "low and slow", the smoker wouldn't get used very often.
Man this thread is getting rough! Ya know I have some very good friends that are 65+ years old, and to me are Pittmasters and they have a saying that is called givin er 20!
Whatever you want your meat temp to be, give the cooker 20 more deg and it's done when it's done!
I agree with Rondo! Some like Fords, some like Chevy's.
I find it easier to go low and slow time wise, for a couple reasons:
I can put on a big hunk o meat early in the morning, and when I get home from work it's usually done, and the window for pulling of the cooker is much more forgiving.
Plus I'm from tha south and like........... it......... slooooooowwww......
Whatever you want your meat temp to be, give the cooker 20 more deg and it's done when it's done!
I agree with Rondo! Some like Fords, some like Chevy's.
I find it easier to go low and slow time wise, for a couple reasons:
I can put on a big hunk o meat early in the morning, and when I get home from work it's usually done, and the window for pulling of the cooker is much more forgiving.
Plus I'm from tha south and like........... it......... slooooooowwww......
j biesinger
TVWBB Platinum Member
Please, there's never a reason to get offended or defensive around here. Its all just opinions. I'd be the first to admit my post count has nothing to do with my skill as a pitmaster. I can relate to the "I can cook" part, in that I can say I'm a better cook than a pitmaster and mostly what I know and learned about bbq came from reading texts on cooking (not bbq).
What I find interesting about cooking is that you wont find a recipe that calls for cooking any meat at a temp as low as what some bbq'rs recommend. Couple that with the fact that most highly touted pitmasters can't back up their methods with any real science (just ask Kevin K, he makes this point all the time when I ask him about something questionable that I read in a bbq book or online), which makes me skeptical of much of it.
Lastly, I struggled with the wsm when I tried to use it to achieve some type of ideal low and slow cook (215*-225*). It took me some time and the good people of this forum to get to the realization that the wsm is devilishly difficult to temp and operates better at slightly higher temps and a slightly wider range. As a result, when I come across a user slightly greener than me, my instinct are to encourage them to initially avoid the romance of low and slow.
As for the issue of "taste." I come from the competition angle where there are three categories that meat is judged on (pardon me if you know this): appearance, taste and texture. I would use flavor as a synonym for taste. IMO, other than surface browning, I don't see how method can affect flavor, texture yes. Taste is the most heavily weighted category, and many top cooks use HH methods to turn in winning brisket.
I'm not the most tactful author, and occasionally come across a board member who thinks I'm flaming them, but really I'm just looking to learn as much as I can, and for insightful conversations.
Sorry it came across that way. One reason I don't post all that often. When you can't hear what someone bangs out on a keyboard you never really know how they mean it.
I'm always in for learning more about smoking and what not and I've seen a lot of good stuff on the board. Whether you want to do L&S or HH, everyone keep doing your thing!
I'm always in for learning more about smoking and what not and I've seen a lot of good stuff on the board. Whether you want to do L&S or HH, everyone keep doing your thing!
Dale Perry
TVWBB Guru
I am not a fan of HH either when BBqing pork. Im glad that it works in a pinch but I am on the side that believes slower helps render the fat out better. I still cook brisket slow too but I no longer use a WSM so I cant argue that HH briskets are better for bullet users or not.
jeffsipes
TVWBB Member
I have been practicing my brisket skills on the WSM and am very satisfied with the product that comes off the smoker when I cook using the High Heat method.
I started out foiling my brisket when it got to 160 using HH and then probing for tenderness at 185 or so. Recently I have quit foiling and rely more heavily on rub and mop to keep the brisket moist, flavorful and with the right texture for my tastes.
I'm currently enamored with HH but I have cooked a number of good briskets using either method.
I started out foiling my brisket when it got to 160 using HH and then probing for tenderness at 185 or so. Recently I have quit foiling and rely more heavily on rub and mop to keep the brisket moist, flavorful and with the right texture for my tastes.
I'm currently enamored with HH but I have cooked a number of good briskets using either method.
Another Bob B
TVWBB Pro
Interesting posts all - If anything has been learned or taught here, it's that nobody is really wrong. L&S as well as HH cooks will continue honeing their skills, suggesting and teaching what they have learned and practiced, and the eager to learn will expand their knowledge by trying what they think is good information. Good luck all. Bob