Looking for Morton'sTender quick

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I've been to Lunardi's here in San Jose, CA and they had never heard of Morton's Tender Quick. They did have other Morton products.

I need to find it in the next couple of days. My 7 pounds of top round is sliced and is/will be drying out in the fridge over night. I would very much like to start the marinade tomorrow night.

Anybody know of a store in this area, or a chain that carries it ?

Much obliged...

Marc
 
Thanks Rocky,

But I really need it tomorrow night. Had I thought for a second that it was hard to find, I would have done the same.

I hope someone can help me. Thanks for the websites though. I will use them if I must.

Thanks again !

Marc
 
I made beef jerky last week, and had the same problem, 6 grocery stores and no Morton's Tender Quick. I ended up buying some Pacific Mountain beef jerky marinade at Topps and added some spices to it, the marinade had all the needed cure and such, and the jerky came out great. I'll have to check out Rocky's sites though, so I'll have some in the cupboard for next time. Good Luck
 
You could always pay extra and have them "overnight" it to you. Depends on how desperate you are. LOL
 
Marc
There is bound to be some company in your area that carries sausage making supplies.
Check your yellow pages. Good chance that a local small butcher may make sausage in house and may be willing to help you.
Jim
 
Marc,

I get mine at California Butcher Supply, 451 Los Coches, Milpitas, 408-946-2821. I just gave them a call, they have it in stock, $4.73 for a 2 pound bag.

Regards,
Chris
 
Why use Tender Quck in jerky hot smoked on a WSM?

The only active preservative besides salt is sodium nitrite. Sodium nitrite is used in slow and cold cured meat products to prevent the growth of botulism when a meat product is curing at temperatures above 40 degrees and below 140 degrees for more than four hours or when you are doing long-term cold curing at temperatures around 40 degrees.

Neither of these could remotely occur while smoking thin strips of beef on a WSM at temperatures in the 200+ degree region.

Once you've dried the meat in the presence of a very salty marinate, the botulism potential is gone. It needs moisture and a low-salt environment.

Let's say that you decided to be ultra-conservative and use sodium nitrite anyway. The appropriate product would be a VERY small quantity (1 tsp per 5 pounds of meat) of Prague Powder #1 in your marindate.

Tender Quick is the wrong product. It contains both sodium nitrite and sodium nitrate. When slow curing a piece of meat for many days or weeks, the sodium nitrite breaks down chemically into nitric oxide. Over time, the sodium nitrite is used up. The sodium nitrate in Prague Powder #2 (or Tender Quick) constantly breaks down into a new sodium nitrite to replenish the supply. It's basically a time release mechanism for things, like ham, that cure for an extended period of time. Again, this doesn't apply to jerky done in the Weber.

I think what's happened here is that recipes have been misunderstood. If you were air-curing jerky or curing it in a low-temp dehydrator or even in a slow-smoke environment at temperatures between 90 and 140 degrees, then sodium nitrite would be a sensible addition and you would use some Prague Powder #1 in the mix (although frankly, salt alone would probably be sufficient).

But, when you are translating a recipe to a hot-smoking environment like a Weber kettle, you have to think about the food chemistry of the new heat level. A sodium nitrite cure is simply unnecessary for something where the surface of the meat will be well above 140 degrees in a matter of an hour or two. In fact, the sodium nitrite will be 80% "gassed out" of the meat when temperatures hit 130 degrees.

I have no problem with sodium nitrite curing and would use it to be on the safe side with hot smoked home-made sausage like Andouille because mixed ground meat is SUCH an ideal breeding environment for nasties. But, it's simply unnecessary in this case.

The only botulism risk from jerky would occur during the storage period and then only if:

a) your orginal marinade had a very low salt concentration

b) you didn't fully dry the jerky in the WSM

c) you somehow reintroduced botulism bacteria to the meat after cooking, and

d) you stored your jerky at room temperature.

Simply storing it in the refridgerator or freezer would eliminate this risk.
 
So the real question is, "At what temperature will Marc be running the WSM?" If he's shooting for something below 140-150*F (which can be done with a little practice) then a cure may be warranted. If he's running at 200*F or so, then maybe not.

There is certainly a lot of confusion out there about the difference between Prague powder #1 and #2, and what the various cure agents like TenderQuick are all about. My sneaking suspicion is that one reason TenderQuick turns up so often in recipes is that it's more readily available in retail stores like Walmart in some parts of the country. Since it's easy to buy, people use it even though it contains ingredients that aren't needed for the task at hand. But is any harm done?

Regards,
Chris
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Allingham:
[qb]So the real question is, "At what temperature will Marc be running the WSM?" If he's shooting for something below 140-150*F (which can be done with a little practice) then a cure may be warranted. If he's running at 200*F or so, then maybe not.[/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Even that wouldn't be an issue because all jerky marinades have such a high concentration of salt and because the temps are still very high compared to curing a ham in a smokehouse at 40 degrees. Basically, the TenderQuick in a recipe for WSM jerky is just being used as an expensive form of salt.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>[qb] My sneaking suspicion is that one reason TenderQuick turns up so often in recipes is that it's more readily available in retail stores like Walmart in some parts of the country. Since it's easy to buy, people use it even though it contains ingredients that aren't needed for the task at hand. But is any harm done?
[/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I think availability is why the Morton product is chosen. However, what I don't understand is why people are even doing sodium nitrite cures on many of these recipes. There are very few things that can be done on a WSM smoker that fit into the cold-cure or cold-smoked category where sodium nitrite cures are appropriate. Sodium nitrite is for hams, bacon, and other things that are cured in the absence of heat.

We all complain about the "brine" that the grocery stores pack their pork in. But, that is basically a "Tender Quick" cure, done for the store's convenience because it extends the shelf life of fresh pork products by basically turning all their pork into mini-hams. TenderQuick is a ham brine.

Used in appropriate quantities, I don't think there is ANY harm in using a sodium nitrite cure. It will have some impact on the texture and color of the finished product, but it generally won't hurt anything. It's just unnecessary.

Prague Powder #1 (6.25% sodium nitrite/93.75% salt) is available from www.alliedkenco.com for a buck or two a pound (you use 1 tsp per 5 pounds of meat).

If a WSM grillman ever needs a cure product, that's the one that makes the most sense and, even then, the only time I would consider it marginally necessary would be for smoking home-made sausage. It's not even strictly required for that with the WSM's smoker temps, but sausage is enemy number one for botulism. In fact, the word botulism comes from the Latin word for sauasage!
 
Another factor is that many commonly read books like Rytek Kutas' "Great Sausage Making Recipes and Meat Curing" make absolute statements like "all meat smoked at 150*F or below must be cured" (I'm paraphrasing, I don't have book handy). Folks just do what's suggested.

Regards,
Chris

P.S. I don't like to buy brined meat in the grocery store...I like to do it myself. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Allingham:
[qb]Another factor is that many commonly read books like Rytek Kutas' "Great Sausage Making Recipes and Meat Curing" make absolute statements like "all meat smoked at 150*F or below must be cured" [/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with Rytek. That's the point of sodium nitrite cures: for use with cold-cured meats. Remember, though, that the SALT is still the primary curing agent. You are using less than 1/12th of a teaspoon of sodium nitrite per 5 pounds of meat.

I would be very surprised if, as long as you've got a fire burning, that you can stabilize temps below 150 degrees for any period of time in a WSM. You'd basically have to choke your fire off and dance around the point where the fire has gone out, opening the vents to reinvigorate it with a shot of air from time to time. It would certainly be easier, and more likely, to smoke at 160 to 200 degrees on a WSM.

Sodium nitrite cures for jerky would be generally used for air curing them in the fridge or for cold-smoking with a dedicated dehydrator/electric smoker/oven (or smokehouse) that holds temps in the 90 degree range. It is extremely difficult to do that kind of smoking on a backyard smoker.

As long as your marinade is salty (either from salt or soy sauce) and your WSM temps are 160 degrees or higher, you would have zero concern about botulism in smoking something like jerky.

Sausage is a red alert for a couple of reasons:

a) you have ground meat, so whatover bacteria is on the surface of the meat is distributed throughout.

b) The casing provides a very moist environment, which botulism needs. It can't multiply without moisture. That's why meat is dried for preservation in the first place.

c) The casing ensures a low-oxygen environment, also favorable to botulism. The reason sodium nitrite is used is that it breaks down into nitric OXIDE gas to provide oxygen molecules to find with the meat molecules in an otherwise oxygen starved environment.

d) The salt levels may not be THAT high. Certainly nothing approaching a jerky marinade or a Smithfield country ham or salt-cured procuitto in northern Italy.

All I'm saying is that if Marc can't find sodium nitrite, it certainly doesn't have to put a damper on his jerky-making. Personally, I would be far more concerned about leaving that sliced beef in the fridge for a couple of days waiting for sodium nitrite to arrive than I would be about smoking it without the saltpeter! And, even that wouldn't worry me very much with the salt content of any jerky marinade.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Webb Collings:
[qb]I would be very surprised if, as long as you've got a fire burning, that you can stabilize temps below 150 degrees for any period of time in a WSM. You'd basically have to choke your fire off and dance around the point where the fire has gone out, opening the vents to reinvigorate it with a shot of air from time to time.[/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can achieve temps below 150*F (even sub-100*F temps) in the WSM with just a handful of briquettes and careful damper control. This is the process that folks use to smoke cheese on the WSM. It does take patience and would be tedious to do for many hours, but it's not impossible.

Best regards,
Chris
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Allingham:
[qb]

Webb, just out of curiosity, what kind of smoker do you cook on? [/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A larger 22.5-inch diameter big brother to the WSM. Two (or three) 22 inch cooking grates, 7/8ths inch thick ceramic stone thermal barrier, 2 gallon water/drip pan, gas charcoal ignition.

BTW, I agree that if you are going to cold smoke jerky in your WSM at 90 to 140 degrees at the grate with three lit briquets for 8 hours, you should probably use a sodium nitrite cure to be on the safe side.

Even when using a sodium nitrite cure, the USDA guidelines for home jerky making recommend heating the meat through to 160 degrees at the start of the drying process and then maintaining a dehydrator temperature of at least 130 to 140 degrees throughout the entire drying process.
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OA/pubs/jerky.htm

If you do a lot of cold-smoking, a dedicated electric smoker probably makes more sense.
http://www.cookshack.com/home_barbecue_products/bbq_smokette.htm
http://sausagemaker2.buffnet.net/shop/newcat.html?cat=Smokehouses#anchor-41010

These use a thermostatically controlled low-wattage heating element that can be set as low as 100 degrees. Smoke wood is placed in a container on top of the heater. This is the ideal way to go for cold-smoked, sodium nitrite cured meats and fish.

I'd also recommend a through study of the various data pages and health safety links on cures at:
www.alliedkenco.com

They have some terrific information on how the cures work and other safety issues.
 
I haven't tried making any jerky yet with my cookshack smoker, but I heard that it is very easy compared to most smokers. The only problem is that there isn't a lot of room. You have to make small batches. The bottom rack gets too hot, but that leaves 4 racks at 14" x 14". This is for the model 50 or 55. If you had one of those large cookshack's, you could do much more.

A friend of mine just made jerky last week using his 30" x 8' Klose Mobile Pit. He fit 30 lbs of marinated, sliced bottom round on his pit in one load!! He said it made about 10-12 lbs of finished jerky.
 
I love this bulletin board.

You guys are the best ! Thank you very much one and all for your kind and generous responses.

I won't use it for the jerky and if I ever need it I can get it in Milpitas <thanks Chris> at a great price. One of the on-line vendors wanted 51 bucks to over night it. That's double what the meat cost LOL.

Cheers !

Marc
 
Perhaps I should clarify a few things......

First off, I use a 10 year old adjustable electric CharBroil bullet unit to do my smoking(with no water pan). When I first learned to make jerky we did indeed cook at temps below 150?....hence the TenderQuick. The obvious advantage is I can set it and forget it. I justify electricity because making jerky is NOT BBQ.

We all love our WSM's, but even it cannot give me a 10 hour burn at 150? with no attention.

Through experimenting, I found that the jerky could be made at higher temps and, of course, the cooking time is greatly reduced. I also concluded that anything above 200? is not good.

However, I continued to use the TQ during this process. The biggest reason for continuing to use it is to avoid the need to refrigerate it. I take this stuff on the road with me so it sits in the car for many days.

I have also gotten used to the salt content using this recipe...TQ is available in every supermarket locally and is quite inexpensive. I always have some on hand for my sausages so I figure I will just stick to what has worked for me for 15 years.

Currently, if I have the time, I will cook it at around 150? and let it take all day. That 150? is close enough that I take the extra precaution of TQ.

I do agree, it is not always needed, especially if you plan on refrigerating, but you will need to add lots of salt to get the right flavor.

Hope this helps make things simpler for those that don't have TQ available.
 
OK, message received and understood, however how do you explain all the jerky recipes that do not call for salt except for the soya.

ie http://www.melborponsti.com/jerky/jerky084.html
without the liquid smoke, of course...

Why have so many people told me that I do not need TQ ?

My meat has been marinating for 4 hours, I am planning on 48 hours of marinade. Are you saying that I should add salt ???

You are contradicting a lot of advice and you've got me a little worried. I only have so many days that I can spend doing this and that is why I am doing so much research. If you have a complete recipe with procedures,can you forward it to me for comparison ?

Let me know please !!!

Marc
 
Marc:

Soy sauce IS salt!

From the nutritional label on my handy box of Morton Salt, one tablespoon of table salt contains 1770 milligrams of sodium.

The label on my bottle of Pearl River Bridge soy sauce shows that one tablespoon contains 1590 milligrams of sodium.

For all intents and purposes, soy sauce is directly interchangeable, one for one, with table salt in terms of adding sodium to a marinade.

So using the recipe you referenced:
http://www.melborponsti.com/jerky/jerky084.htm

For six pounds of meat, you would be adding the equivalent of ONE CUP OF TABLE SALT. A cup of table salt is a lot of salt!

Run your WSM temps somewhere between 160 and 200 degrees until the jerky is dry and there won't be any signs of living organisms in it.

I'm not recommending that you do test this and I know the USDA wouldn't approve, but my guess is that soaking your refrigerated thin beef strips in a marinade with that much sodium for 48 hours would very likely kill any nasties by all by itself. Not much can live in that high a concentration of salt.
 
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