Lid vs. Grate Temps...?


 

Jeff Rushe

TVWBB Member
Let me first apologize for what could see like a completely basic question --

Why such the HUGE difference in lid temp vs the grate temp?? Am I not alone here?

For instance, my Maverick grate probe will/could read 300' but then I go check my lid thermometer and that reads about 225'. I get very concerned with such a gap in temps.

I'm assuming the close proximity of the meat by the grate probe and general circulation within the WSM causing such a difference?

I guess a good test for me to report back on is comparing the differences in temps at the beginning of a cook to the ending of a cook?

If anyone has any information (the geekier/technical the better
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) And finally, if this is something I/we have to deal with...which one should we focus more on? I'm guessing the grate temp?

Thanks All...Happy Smoke Day/Weekend and more importantly Happy Memorial Day to past & present veterans!
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There are several reasons for differences and differences not only can vary, the spread can reverse.

I've never cared because it doean't matter.

Get used to working off one or the other. I use lid temp (with a therm in a vent -- don't like installed therms) because I find it more reliable. The only time I measure at the grate is if cold smoking or cooking at the lower end of hot smoking temps.
 
There isn't.

Look at it this way: Let's say you decide to measure cooktemps by suspending or otherwise fixing a probe just above whatever meat your cooking. (Let's say it's ribs.) You follow your procedure of choice, you test the ribs for tender, pull them when done, and they're great. Let's say the cooktemp was ~ 260 the whole time.

You repeat your approach several times with excellent results.

On a whim you decide to check lid temp. It's, say, 225 -- or 310 -- doesn't matter. And, well, it really won't matter because you have an approach that works for you -- and that has worked for you repeatedly. That the lid temp is different means nothing because you are not cooking with that in mind.

(All this is true were you to have chosen the lid to work off of at the beginning, as well.)

But, let's say, you are new to the WSM. You read the boards and want to cook ribs and based on what you read you decide to use 260 as a target. If you then check both lid and grate temps and see a disparity you might become frustrated because your focus is on honing in on this particular temp. (This happens all the time -- just see the many temp-frustration posts here and elsewhere.) You might place all your energy into figuring out the disparity, or trying to 'fix' the problem -- trying to square the circle.

The energy, instead, should simply be placed on trying to cook good ribs and, as long as your cooker is hot enough (>225) but not too hot (<350) this is not difficult at all. If you get used to cooking within a particular range the actual number really doesn't matter. E.g., your therm (in the first example of repeated success) could simply have the numbers 1-10 on the dial, no actual temp numbers. If you cooked at, say, 3, and focused on a successful cook, achieved it, and repeated it many times, you wouldn't even know what temps you were actually cooking at -- and it wouldn't matter. It's where you place your focus that counts.

Hand-in-hand with this is abandoning the notion of specific cook times. Where new cooks get into trouble (frustration-wise) is by either an over-emphasis on hitting a specific temp number (and freaking out if spikes occur), or cooking something at X temp for Y number of hours and, if unsuccessful (as is often the case), wondering why their meat was chewy, tough, or dry.

Numerous cooktemp ranges are possible. Cook time is based on many variables and only serves (often rather loosely) as a guide. If the focus is as it should be -- cooking the meat till moist and tender -- success is more easily achieved because the only way to really tell if the meat is going to be moist and tender is by checking the meat to see if it is -- not pulling it off when it reaches X internal temp, or when it has cooked for Y number of hours. (Once you know how meat should feel you can cook at any reasonabble temp --even temps you are not used to cooking at -- and achieve great results every time.)

[The reason I use lid temp is because it involves nothing more than sticking a silicone-plugged therm in a vent hole. On occasion, when I feel the need to monitor remotely (it doesn't happen much), I will dangle a probe through a vent hole. One can use grate temps instead -- but one should be careful of probe placement. Too close to the edge of the grate is a problem. Too close to the meat is a problem -- especially if the cut is large. There are good, easy techniques to use if you would prefer to monitor grate temps (I simply don't want to bother -- I rarely monitor internal temps either) like attaching your grate probe to your internal probe, etc. But, the point: pick one or the other for now, choose a temp range, then focus on the meat.]
 
I can't comment on the temps on the WSM as I don't have one yet as I'm waiting for the 22.5 inch to be released in Australia in a couple of months time, but on my Performer grill, I always go on the lid temps as that's where I beleive most of the heat is and gets swirled around till it finds the exit vent.

I did some baby back ribs the other day and I set the kettle on about 250F avge (sometimes it went up to 270 sometimes 230 if i closed the vents too far down to stop the temp spike and I decided just to let them go till they bent easily in the middle and started to tear easily then I gave them a quick sauce baste and pulled them off after a further 15 minutes and they were simply superb.

I'm more concerned on the internal meat temps on the larger cuts of meat than I am with lid or grate temps as this will determine doneness.
I'll just use one of those weber remote temp probes that will alert me when it's close, ok that might sound lazy but technology is here to use
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Although I live in Australia and most of our temps are done in Celcius (C)I try to work in The F degree scale rather than C as American reCipes are then easier to judge but the way I determine my lid temp is the range scale of cooking such as: 220F-270F is for smoking, 270F- 350F is for BBQing or slow roasting,350F- 400F is high roasting/slow grilling & 400 to 550 is high temp grilling and 550F to infinity is cremating LOL.

Cheers

Davo
 
recognizing the fact that there is a difference between the lid and the grate was key for me. I couldn't figure out why I wasn't getting my ribs to done when my lid was reading 220*.

What I know now is higher temps are good, the meat reacts similarly in different temp ranges, and I know what done looks like for each piece of meat. I typically let the wsm settle in where it wants, give myself an approximate time to start checking based on that temp, and pull the meat when its done.

I'm still learning this of course. I just pulled out a protocol (x time, y temp) that worked really well on some spares and this time was a mitigated disaster. Knowing doneness is the most important thing, not temps. Temps will give you an idea of when to check for doneness.
 
what kevin said is totally true and a very very good explanation of why.

the secret is that all bbq pits whether it is a wsm or an offset or a kettle or even a gass or kitchen stove oven, they all have different temps in different zones. thats why your oven in the house has adjustable racks.

the key is pick a place you want to measure temps then use that as you gauge. it doesnt matter what zone you pick long as you pick one. a given meat at a given temp over a given time doesnt mean it is done. it gives you a place to start looking for doneness.

biggest mistake you can make is to cook solely by time and temp as hard rules.
 
I bow to you all for such fantastic feedback.

This is a new way of thinking for me moving forward...and now thinking back (as well as reading your own thoughts & stories) it definitely makes sense.

There have been times where I fought and fought with my WSM to keep the GRATE temps below 300' - but for the most part (other than being overly critical) the food came out great. And like you said, the meat is done when it's done - not when it reaches an exact temp.

And go figure...this wasn't an issue until AFTER I bought my Maverick wireless therm!
 

 

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