Let's talk brisket


 
Carl_S_901

Carl_S_901

TVWBB Fan
So I have been doing a lot of reading and researching for this upcoming weekend but haven't got it all figured out yet. Last Saturday I was going to walk around the Memphis in May World Championship BBQ contest and take some pictures but decided I would spend that money on some books. So I bought Chris Lilly's Book, Myron Mixon's book, and Smoke & Spice. I already owned the Low & Slow book. On top of that I read about brisket here and on the amazingribs site in addition to posts here on the forum. After all that, I still need to sort things out.

Here's what I HAVE decided:

1. Not using Texas Crutch or ever wrapping in foil IN the smoker
2. Not cooking High Temp - 225 - 250 is all I am willing to do - If I wanted to cook at 350 I would use a grill or oven ;)
3. Doing a paste/rub but want to make it less spicy than the rub we used for the first 2 smokes.
4. Doing a whole packer brisket (flat and point) - Stopped by my local meat market today and they only had SELECT briskets but have CHOICE ones coming tomorrow. I will pick that up tomorrow.
5. Will be first overnight smoke and expect it to continue into the day
6. Smoking Fat Side Down
7. Resting in foil inside for 1 hour after done
8. Using water in the pan
9. Starting fire with minion method as usual - probably 15-20 briquets as we we want to maximize burn length

The closest thing I have seen to what I want to do is Bare Naked Brisket from Chris Lilly's book.

Here's what I have NOT figured out:

A. Inject with Broth, Marinade it, or neither?
B. Dry Rub or Wet Paste? Also, has any one used WILD WILLY’S NUMBER ONE-DERFUL RUB? If so, comments?
C. What TEMP is done? Read 203 is the magic number for non-foiled but also read 185-190 in Chris' book and many other places
D. What is my estimated time? I have read 1 to 1.25 hours per pound and 1 to 1.5 hours per pound. I've also read 8-10 hours and I have also read as much as 18 hours.
E. Mop or No Mop - I'm not wanting to raise the lid very often but I also do not want a giant $50 burnt end.
F. Burnt Ends or No? Cut the Point off and turn it into burnt ends by smoking it more or just slice it? Also, rotate 90 degrees after slicing to the point (i.e. Texas Turn) or not?
G. What smoke wood? I was sort of set on Oak, Apple, and a little Hickory but someone told me not to use oak so I am now unsure about it at this point.
H. The fire - in the morning I am guessing we will need to revive the fire a bit even when starting with the minion method. Do we add briquets as is? Fire up the chimney and add hot briquets? Add more smoke wood?

I know that is a LOT, but let's talk about it. If you don't want to address them all, pick one you are passionate about and let's here about it. :)

Thanks for all the great advice in advance :D
 
'k, I'll give it a go if I may...

A. Inject with Broth, Marinade it, or neither?

I inject mine when I compete. I rarely inject if I don't, but if I do it will be some reduced beef stock and a little of a savory rub and maybe some beef base of sorts. Get a good brisket and have to do less to it, is my experience. I'm fortunate enough to have a supplier of Prime briskets, so I typically just don't have to do as much to them. To answer the other part of the question, I would never marinate a brisket.

B. Dry Rub or Wet Paste? Also, has any one used WILD WILLY’S NUMBER ONE-DERFUL RUB? If so, comments?

I actually dry rub (no sugar!), let sit several hours, and then follow with a wet paste. I have Smoke and Spice, and I've used Willy's Number Wonderful Rub on other things (chicken or pork), but I wouldn't use it on brisket. Just a preference.

C. What TEMP is done? Read 203 is the magic number for non-foiled but also read 185-190 in Chris' book and many other places.

I wouldn't rely on temp as much as to look for it around the 193-200 range to actually jiggle when you shake it. That's when it's done. Another way is to smoke until about 165 internal, and then foil (I'm from Texas, I use brown butcher paper) and turn it upside down and cook until it's about 200 or so, internal. Then let it sit for a couple of hours in an insulated environment, warm oven, etc, to continue to tenderize and render down. The fat and collagen will continue to melt for as long as it stays above about 180. environmental temp.

D. What is my estimated time? I have read 1 to 1.25 hours per pound and 1 to 1.5 hours per pound. I've also read 8-10 hours and I have also read as much as 18 hours.

This varies based on numerous factors, not the least of which is the quality of the brisket, cooker efficiency, etc. Focus more on watching the internal temp to gauge what's happening (i.e. you should be able to see the stall, when it breaks out of it, when you want to wrap, when you want to start feeling, etc). Any time or temp guideline is just that, and can be way off at times. Most of our comp briskets are done in 12 hours, rested for just over an hour.

E. Mop or No Mop - I'm not wanting to raise the lid very often but I also do not want a giant $50 burnt end.

I do make a mop of some beef stock, beef base, a dark beer, some simmered garlic and onions, and some dry mustard, fresh cracked pepper, kosher salt, cider vinegar and a little vegetable oil. I never actually mop, that's a great way to wash off a great bark. However, I do have a Home Depot all-purpose spray bottle that I use for spritzing.

F. Burnt Ends or No? Cut the Point off and turn it into burnt ends by smoking it more or just slice it? Also, rotate 90 degrees after slicing to the point (i.e. Texas Turn) or not?

Burnt ends are little cubes of gold, and we do it pretty much every time a brisket is made. I trim my point up pretty well of it's fat so it gets great bark. I even trim an inch or two into the fat vein, but following the point line and leaving the fat attached to the bottom of the flat. Then, once I've reached about 190 or so, internal, at the flat, I'll take it off, and run a knife through and separate the point from the flat. I wrap the flat back up and put it back on, and then cube the point and put it in some foil exposed to render the lion's share of the fat (but not long enough to dry them out). I'll then mix with a little sauce if I'm saucing them that day (doesn't happen often) and wrap them up and cook about another 25-30 minutes. They're done at that point. We actually like burnt ends over the flat any day :)

G. What smoke wood? I was sort of set on Oak, Apple, and a little Hickory but someone told me not to use oak so I am now unsure about it at this point.

My comp brisket does outstanding here in Texas, and I use white oak almost exclusively. My next favorite is pecan. I wouldn't use fruit woods on brisket or beef ribs, but then, my flavor profile is savory as opposed to sweet, so it's really personal preference.

H. The fire - in the morning I am guessing we will need to revive the fire a bit even when starting with the minion method. Do we add briquets as is? Fire up the chimney and add hot briquets? Add more smoke wood?

Unless you've burned out all your briquets overnight, there will be no reason to start more. You may have to get a coal rake and bring them back together a bit, but as long as you have some lite just put the unlit next to them in line just like you did the first time. Should be just fine, unless you see that your temps have gone down overnight, at which point you may want to stoke a few in the chimney for instant heat.

Just some thought, hope some of this helps.
 
I injected mine with beef broth than rubbed down with a chili powder based dry rub and mustard. I used apple because that is all I had but the recipe in my Weber smoke cookbook, which I recommend, calls for mesquite. I would recommend something stronger than apple because mine did not have much smoke taste and a minimal smoke ring. Also, don't forget to remove the clear membrane and trim some fat. I did not have much bark because I did not get the membrane off. As for time, my 12 lb brisket was done in 9 hours at 250 degrees. I was surprised but apparently that seems common. Also, please don't make Dale mind the smoker all night and listen to some of his ideas.
 
Carl_S_901 said:
Thanks for the feedback thus far.

Randy W: Why no sugar in the rub?
Click to expand...

You can if ya like, actually, it's just a preference. There's typically little or no sugar in Texas-style brisket rubs, because its profile is savory rather than sweet. In fact, it's not unusual for people in Texas (even some comp teams) to use simply kosher salt and fresh cracked pepper. One of my favorite rubs to use on brisket either in comps or the backyard has only salt, pepper, garlic, onion, cumin, ancho chile powder, chili powder, dry mustard and a little Mexican oregano. If you want to make a brisket rub with sugar in it, omit the Mexican oregano in the above and add brown sugar. Of course, there are more concoctions than people to post, so I'm sure people have a gazillion of these recipes...lol. I myself have 18 different ones. PM me if interested in any ideas, I'll be glad to share...
 
Carl_S_901 said:
A. Inject with Broth, Marinade it, or neither?
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I read Harry Soo's PDF on this site and took his advice of "full court press" to heart. I inject, rub, and baste and come up with some fantastic brisket.

Carl_S_901 said:
B. Dry Rub or Wet Paste? Also, has any one used WILD WILLY’S NUMBER ONE-DERFUL RUB? If so, comments?
Click to expand...
Never used that rub, but both dry rub and wet paste can give good results. Try both and see which you like better.

Carl_S_901 said:
C. What TEMP is done? Read 203 is the magic number for non-foiled but also read 185-190 in Chris' book and many other places
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Somewhere between 100 and 250. Probes sometimes lie, and every hunk of meat is different. It's done when you poke a probe into it and it goes in like warm butter. Until then, it's not done. Once you get to around 190, start poking it but ignore your temp probe after that.

Carl_S_901 said:
D. What is my estimated time? I have read 1 to 1.25 hours per pound and 1 to 1.5 hours per pound. I've also read 8-10 hours and I have also read as much as 18 hours.
Click to expand...
It's done when it's done. It depends heavily on a lot of things like how consistent you keep your pit temps, how much marbling there is in the meat, how thick the meat is, whether you foiled or not, etc.

Carl_S_901 said:
E. Mop or No Mop - I'm not wanting to raise the lid very often but I also do not want a giant $50 burnt end.
Click to expand...
WSMs recover in minutes. Lift the lid as much as you need to. I use a product called "Brisket Sauce" for an injection and I also spray it on the meat once my bark has formed. It's soy sauce, worcestershire sauce, and some spices.

Carl_S_901 said:
F. Burnt Ends or No? Cut the Point off and turn it into burnt ends by smoking it more or just slice it? Also, rotate 90 degrees after slicing to the point (i.e. Texas Turn) or not?
Click to expand...
Do you like burnt ends? If so, make them. If not, don't worry about it. I like slice and chopped brisket, so I slice to the point then chop from there on.

Carl_S_901 said:
G. What smoke wood? I was sort of set on Oak, Apple, and a little Hickory but someone told me not to use oak so I am now unsure about it at this point.
Click to expand...
Texas uses a lot of oak, so nothing wrong with that. I use half apple and half hickory and get good results. I wouldn't do a brisket in just fruit wood, it would be a little too mild. You want a little hickory or even a small bit of mesquite to put a little bite in the smoke flavor.

Carl_S_901 said:
H. The fire - in the morning I am guessing we will need to revive the fire a bit even when starting with the minion method. Do we add briquets as is? Fire up the chimney and add hot briquets? Add more smoke wood?
Click to expand...
Pile your coals as high as they'll go. You may or may not need to reload. If you do, just put in unlit coals through the door. Don't add more smoke wood--rookie mistake is over-smoking meats. I use 3 fist-sized chunks of hickory and 3 of apple, then no more wood the rest of the time.
 
Curt Davis said:
Also, please don't make Dale mind the smoker all night and listen to some of his ideas.
Click to expand...

LOL

I think the plan is to put it on, wait for a couple of hours, and then go to bed for the night.

Scary part is that if it only takes 8-10 hours then we would be finished way too soon. We're sort of counting on it being a long smoke.

My biggest fear with the brisket is having it come out like shoe leather. :)
 
My first one did turn out very moist and tasty but came out quick. Things I took away were:
1. keep the temp down. My 250 dome temp obviously sped things up
2. Remove the membrane to promote bark production.
3. Use a stronger wood. I would like to try Pecan on the next one since I have seen those carried at our Academy Sports now.

Other than those I was happy especially for a first try. Good luck. I have yet to work up the nerve to do an over nighter.
 
You got some pretty good advice here. I would add that if you are going to be using water throughout your cook, I wouldn't mop or baste as you already have enough moisture in the pit. If not then I would only do so every now and then to the keep the edges of the brisket from getting too crusty. A nice bark is a big plus for brisket, too much moisture and you'll get a soggy bark that easily falls off, not enough moisture and you get thick crusty bark which can make your brisket seem tough. I also use butcher paper. I probably wouldn't inject, save that for when you are more experienced and want to try new things. Keep things simple for now. Some of the best brisket I ever ate was done as simple as can be - Aaron Franklins place. I would pull the brisket when it probes tender right in the middle of the flat where it almost meets the point. Let it vent to prevent carry over cooking and keep in an empty cooler and rest for a minimum of 2 - 5 hours. It will stay warm/hot for a long time if kept covered in the cooler. Good luck!
 
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