KitchenAid Professional 5 Plus Mixer


 
My guess is the PO either didn't know how to properly repair this machine or there were other issues that they missed upon reassembly and the repair didn't last properly. There are all kinds of videos online from people who truly don't have a clue or really don't want to "put everything" out there. Over the years I have studied what fails and why and rebuild the machines with strengths added in those areas to help ward off if not eliminate those things.
 
Here it is, Larry...

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Yep that has either the plastic gear box separate from the outer housing (or on later models a metal gear box). Oddly you can still buy the plastic one. Not sure why. Assembly care is VERY important on this machine and a very high temp high pressure (High EP content) is very important. Using a so called "food safe" is not all that important on this type of machine as there really is not a direct path for it to possibly leak into food. Due to the design of the housing. The other major failure points in this unit are, the upper bearing in the gear housing. Since it's pressed in it will at times fall out. You cannot repair this only a new housing will fix it. The other major failure point is the planetary will simply fall off as it is only on a splined shaft, the bearing in the lower gear housing can fail (again nothing you can do except replace the lower housing), and another failure I have seen on machines used in a heavy commercial environment is the snap ring that holds the beater shaft fails and the beater shaft rides up, punches a hole in the lower gear box. Here too no repair is possible except to replace the entire planetary and lower gear box.
Have fun!
 
So, you're saying this unit is not worth fixing?

Haven't bought it yet, but I may pass in light of these revelations.

I'm beginning to wonder if a tilt-head model is the way to go.
 
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Not sure why you assumed that. They are VERY strong and powerful units. They like all of the machines have their weak spots and I was simply offering you my knowledge is all. The tilt heads have their own weak spots as well. But they too are very strong, powerful and durable units. All of them FAR and away better than anything else on the market in their class. They're expensive but for good reason. They're not meant to be throw away units like other brands like Breville and such which once broken have no parts to repair them. I do like the Hobart versions though as they are just a bit stronger in places that can help. I always keep a few Hobarts around for stock items and they are the main source of my rebuilds when I go for tilts or the narrow bowl 5qt lift style machines.
The machine tag you sent me uses the same body and gear train all the way up to the large heavy 6 and 7 qt machines. The 8 qt is a whole 'nother animal entirely though. For $35, if you know what you're doing I can't see how you'd go wrong. Hell you could sell the bowl and beaters for that if it's too far gone.
I know the spots that fail in the machines and I look for ways to make them even better. But I don't make my mods public knowledge. Why should I? I've spent 10 years rebuilding and perfecting them so I don't feel like I should simply "give that away". Hopefully you're not offended (or anyone else for that matter) I just feel the work I have put in to perfecting what I do is my intellectual "property" and my bread and butter.
If you get stuck I'll give you instruction to help assemble or troubleshoot but I won't disclose my mods.
 
Thanks much!

After reading some less-than-stellar reviews at KitchenAid, and some at Amazon, and after reading your post, I had come to the conclusion this discontinued model was a bit trouble prone, or maybe not worth the investment, but I think we will buy it after reading your last post.

I am no mechanic, but I am mechanical-minded, and I enjoy working on projects, cars, etc., when the need arises.
 
I don't think it's discontinued. I cannot tell from the actual model number if this one is a narrow bowl 5qt or a wide bowl. I think it is the narrow bowl they discontinued which allows them to use one common lift mechanism on 2 or 3 different chassis. The motor head stays the same though
 
Bought the machine this evening. There is no literature to speak of unless I can find it online, which I have struck out so far.

I cleaned the unit up, removed the top, and from my initial viewpoint, I saw no bad gears to speak of, so I am assuming the problem (the spindle shaft cannot handle torque) is somewhere in the planetary area.

I'll post pictures as soon as I can.

EDIT: The top gear housing is made of metal. :) This unit also appears to have the wide bowl (5 quart) instead of the narrow type.

EDIT (2): Is it OK to wash the gear assembly in a parts washer?

EDIT (3): After watching this video, I went back and reexamined the unit, and I noticed the bottom gear that meshes with the worm gear was worn out. The grease was full of shavings, too, and I also noticed the entire gear head assembly was missing quite a bit of grease (the video was helpful here too). I'm assuming whoever previously repaired the mixer didn't add enough grease, which caused too much friction.
 
Either not enough or that awful KA so called food safe. BTW if you look at the MSDS sheet on that grease you'll see it is anything but food safe. Not sure how they get away with calling it that.

Because of the design of this unit you really don't have to worry about grease leaking into food anyway. So this https://www.farmandfleet.com/products/533716-mystik-jt6-hi-temp-grease-with-3-moly.html type of product is great to use. I have never had one fail on me using it.
Another thing that can cause those gears to fail is failure of the bearing in the lower gear case. Take everything apart and wash it all off with your parts washer. Look very closely at the main shaft where it passes though the lower case. Check for any wear on the shaft and that bearing (which is not serviceable BTW). There should be little to no play there. Sometimes the bearing completely separates from the housing. Feel the shaft or mic it carefully (if you have a mic) for any wear. If the bearing has failed you will need a lower gear case. If your machine is white let me know I may have a spare in stock I can sell you. Same with the shaft.
Check carefully also that the bearing in the upper housing has not failed or come out. Again if so you'll need to buy the upper gear case. Because of the poor grease I have found on a couple occasions the upper bearing (lower also) will bind to the shaft and "spin out" (much like a spun rod or main bearing on an engine). Again I believe I have a lower gear case in stock and the main shaft if you find the issue(s). Once you have everything cleaned and inspected. Reassemble and than glob on the high moly grease being sure to get a light film on the lower part of that main shaft. I have never measured how much I put in but it could be 3 oz or so give or take. I fill that gear box up pretty damn good. I tighten the gear housing down in a criss cross pattern to even out the torque. Be sure to get a light coat of grease on the planetary gear. Look closely at the planetary also. Be sure the beater shaft snap rings have not failed. I would recommend disassemble and clean it. Again a VERY thin coat here too. Not much as it will mix with flour and make an abrasive.
Another tip. I see people lose or run the machine without the front hub chrome cap. Don't fall into that trap. It's not just there to make it pretty. It's there to keep flour and such out of that large main bearing in the front.
Have fun
 
LMichaels said:
Either not enough or that awful KA so called food safe. BTW if you look at the MSDS sheet on that grease you'll see it is anything but food safe. Not sure how they get away with calling it that.

Because of the design of this unit you really don't have to worry about grease leaking into food anyway. So this https://www.farmandfleet.com/products/533716-mystik-jt6-hi-temp-grease-with-3-moly.html type of product is great to use. I have never had one fail on me using it.
Click to expand...


Many thanks for the writup and link! I do have a mic, so I'll take measurements.

I'm assuming the KA mixers with a chrome snap ring are the units that are prone to leakage?

Getting back to the KA grease, it sounds like their official food-safe lube is mineral oil based? Maybe that's why it isn't so great.
 
I honestly don't know. IMO the source of almost all KA break downs are caused by inferior lubrication. Re, the chrome ring. The sole purpose of that ring is to catch leaking grease (other than to dress up the lower unit). I only use the EP (Extreme Pressure) moly based lubes on the larger frame machines as there is no risk of it leaking out. For the other machines I use a synthetic Teflon based lube. VERY expensive and does not yield much. I only get 2 machines per container at $25 per container. So it cuts into my profit margin a little. The moly based EP is a much more durable lube and only about $5.00. But it's also a little less viscous and I don't risk it in the other machines.
 
This is gear number 9706529, and you can see it has quite a bit of wear on it.

For what it's worth, this gear has carbon steel in it (a magnet stuck to it), but replacement gears look like they're made of bronze / brass? Are there any with carbon steel left for this part number, or has KitchenAid revised the material?

August%202018%20002.jpg


You can really see the concave gouge in this image...
August%202018%20009.jpg


August%202018%20003.jpg


This is gear number 9703337, and if you notice closely, you can see some wear on one side. I was going to ignore it, but it probably needs replacing?

August%202018%20005.jpg


One question about the worm gear bearing, are the concave washers identical, and does it matter if the bearing faces fore or aft?

August%202018%20006.jpg


This image shows the reverse side of the bearing...

August%202018%20007.jpg


The worm gear looks good to the best of my knowledge, although the sides of the teeth (large diameter gear) feel sharp like they need a bit of deburring.

August%202018%20008.jpg


Another shot of the worm gear...

August%202018%20009.jpg


Everything else looks good to me. I mic'd the planetary shaft, and there may have been .001 to .002 difference along the length of the shaft with the wear coming in the middle area of the shaft. I disassembled the whole head (removed the motor, cord, and control panel) so I can take it (lower part of the head assembly) to a local mechanic's parts washer tomorrow.

Not really the fuss I thought was going to be (I'd give the job a three-wrench rating), but I'll know more when I start to reassemble it all after I order the parts - wherever that may be from. I wonder if the local appliance repair stores carry such inventory?

Check this out...

https://www.searspartsdirect.com/part-number/9706529/0011/665.html

It's made out of brass, though, and it is an aftermarket part...

PD_0011_665_9706529
 
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That photo from Sears PD does not show the same gear that fits the machine you have. The gear failures you're seeing are due to 2 reasons. Primarily lubrication failure and it also looks like the machine may have been run a lot with the accessory drive cap either removed or open with a lot of flour in the area getting into the front hub bearing. I have seen this a lot. Check the large bearing in the front portion of the upper gear box. If it's scored replace it and the accessory drive gear.
It is normal for the worm gear to have sharp edges on it. Examine the teeth very closely I use a magnifier to look for slightly chipped teeth (but than I am old and have bad eye sight so I need cheaters). Odds are it will be fine but be aware the slightest imperfection in those fine teeth will cause the machine to make a snapping noise under heavy load. As for the little ball bearing assembly it does not matter which collar goes where as long as the concave side is facing the actual bearings. Check for slop in the sleeve bearing that is shrink fit into the lower gear housing. I don't have an exact measurement to give you. I just put the shaft in to see if it "feels right". If the shaft wobbles excessively it can cause excessive wear in the gears and a loud snapping noise also.
As for replacing the follower and the hub drive gear yes absolutely do so.
Be sure to fill the gear chamber back up with high quality "EP" (extreme pressure) grease and it should be golden and you should be making things again
 
LMichaels said:
That photo from Sears PD does not show the same gear that fits the machine you have.
Click to expand...

Say it's not the same gear?

KitchenAid gave me a link to the parts list, but they said the model number I gave them was missing a character. Looks like my unit should be KV250XWW(4) (white on white)? The photo I posted (earlier in this thread) of the model number had no extra character at the end. :confused:

KV25G0XWW4 (White on White)
KV25G0XWH4 (White)
KV25G0XBU4 (Cobalt Blue)
KV25G0XCV4 (Caviar)
KV25G0XCY4 (Bing Cherry)
KV25G0XER4 (Empire Red)
KV25G0XGR4 (Imperial Grey)
KV25G0XMC4 (Metallic Chrome)
KV25G0XOB4 (Onyx Black)
KV25G0XBW4 (Blue Willow)
KV25G0XGC4 (Gloss Cinnamon)​



Anyway, the Sears part I linked to is listed as 9706529 (Worm Gear Follower) in the parts list. Here's a Google search listing for 9706259: https://www.google.com/search?sourc.....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.1.127....0.awY1-iHpjGo


EDIT:
LMichaels said:
The gear failures you're seeing are due to 2 reasons. Primarily lubrication failure and it also looks like the machine may have been run a lot with the accessory drive cap either removed or open with a lot of flour in the area getting into the front hub bearing. I have seen this a lot. Check the large bearing in the front portion of the upper gear box. If it's scored replace it and the accessory drive gear.
Click to expand...

As far as I can tell (with a magnifying glass and bright light), the sleeve bearing looks smooth, and I will replace the accessory drive gear, too, along with the worm follower gear, and the bevel gear above it. Not sure if the previous owner left the accessory door open or not, but they did make a lot of cookies for the kids over the past 5+ years. The gear box could've used more grease too.

The drawing below shows the worn parts in need of replacement, although the accessory gear isn't that bad, but I can get it, and the bevel gear, in a kit from here.

replacement%20parts.jpg


EDIT (2): Part #34 (67500−55, O-ring) seems to be missing on our mixer. There is no groove on the shaft to accept one either, so I don't know how this is supposed to fit. Is this a critical part, and do you omit this O-ring on your rebuilds of this type? Looks like a 1/2" O-ring from the hardware store would suffice.
 
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The gear is correct, sorry my bad lack of sleep, bad glasses and stress. As the pair of gears great price and best way to go to get in a pair. As for the O Ring it should be in a very tiny little groove on the shaft. There to keep grease from coming out into the planetary and spilling out. I have seen the machines both ways. The ones with the O Ring I can tell you a standard hardware store O-Ring will be too thick. The one on the machines is very thin. But look for a VERY fine groove I am enclosing a photo of one. I think in newer machines it was superseded to non ring. What is your serial number? I can give you the date and plant where it was made from that should help you.
Here is a photo of how a shaft would look with an ORing
IeX9XgF.jpg


Look for excessive play in the main shaft where the arrow points to item 16. This is not a replaceable part it is a shrink fit bearing in the lower gear housing. On a couple occasions I have seen this bearing come loose from the main housing causing the planetary to walk all over and it just tears everything up. If you have any doubt about it spring for the lower housing. or let me know I think I have a white lower housing I can sell you. Also be aware a couple times I have seen item 25 in the planetary fail, and item 12 the gear literally punch a hole in the lower housing. Pay careful attention to that area.
 
Here's some shots of the planetary assembly...

August%202018%20012.jpg


August%202018%20013.jpg


August%202018%20014.jpg


Try as I might, I cannot find even the tiniest of groves for an O-ring to fit into other than the groove for the snap ring (part 25, in the diagram I posted earlier) above the pin hole. Maybe this model is one of those units that omitted the O-ring (as you previously mentioned). A vernier caliper could not locate an O-ring groove either.

The serial number of this unit is: WR5059395

Getting back to the images, the planetary assembly is the only part I have not disassembled yet, and it's not much cleaner, now, than it was when I first removed it from the mixer housing - meaning that not much grease leaked into the planetary to begin with.

EDIT:
Rusty James said:
I mic'd the planetary shaft, and there may have been .001 to .002 difference along the length of the shaft with the wear coming in the middle area of the shaft.
Click to expand...

I beg your pardon, I meant to say I used a vernier calipers to make these measurements with, but I did recheck the shaft with a micrometer, and the shaft uniformly measures .498" OD from top to bottom with some variation in the tenths range (.0000). The pressed-in sleeve bearing that the shaft fits into measures at .500" so there is not much room for play.
 
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Yeah you should be good

Your machine was made in Greenville OH, 2004 in late December so at least you know that much. The Sears PD part is not an aftermarket part it is a running change of the OEM part. Though Sears PD shows it as unavailable. I have never used them as I don't trust anything with the name "Sears" any more.
The shaft is showing a little "scuffing" but to be expected with the bad grease KA uses. These machines put a LOT of stress on on those internal parts due to the design. They also do not hold as much grease as the other design so grease quality becomes paramount for durability especially if you make a lot if heavy mixes i,e, bread/pizza dough etc. If you use it only to make light batters and whipped toppings not so critical.
Disassemble that beater shaft on the planetary and pay attention to the snap ring on the beater side to be sure it has not come loose allowing the shaft to walk upward under load and punch through the lower gear box. You can clean it well (use only a dry cloth on the bushing) and you can put a very tiny amount of grease on the shaft prior to assembly. Too much will attract dirt. Put a bit of grease on the planetary ring gear also not a sloppy amount but a decent amount
Looks like it should go well
 
No I haven't I get a different product that is white. IIRC from Tri-Flow or Tri-Flon (forget the name). It's about $25 a tube, I put it in one large frame machine, If that machine comes back for warranty than I will not use it again. Kind of the same thing though. Synthetic, "food grade" and such. It is not compatible to any other grease so the unit needs to be free of any remnants of other types of grease. I have reservations about how well it will hold up to the extreme pressure these particular machines exert on the gear set. I am sure it's far better than what the factory installs though. The machine I put it in was in a 6 qt and I know the guy uses it in a commercial setting. That was almost 6 months ago and no failure at this point. I guess there is no harm in trying it out. Heck it's gotta be WAY better than factory grease.
 
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