just when i thought i had my mind made up on a stoker or digiQ2


 
Tony,
That is the only downside to when I first got the stoker. Loads you can do with it but I did have to get quite a bit of help to get it talking to my laptop, etc. Luckily the folks on the board really helped me thru it. Once hooked up the interface is super nice and incredibly easy to use. I gotta agree that if not hooked up the guru is, from what i have seen, quite a bit more user friendly (sorry..repeat from my 1/29 post).
 
Not trying to fan the debate, but as a Stoker owner I think there is one other difference worth pointing out. The Stoker gives you the ability to monitor more than one piece of meat per pit. Many times I will cook two pork butts and a brisket in one smoker. I can set a food probe in each piece of food with the Stoker. This can come in handy with butts of different size. I'm assuming that if you are only running one smoker with a CyberQII, you wouldn't be able to use the second pit and food probes as food probes for the first pit.

From what I've read to this point, I think the BBQ Guru folks do a better job of making their product more durable for outside use, and the Stoker allows for more options in number of probes, number of pits, etc. I don't think you can go wrong with either product, so choose one that meets the needs that are important to you.
 
Using both guru and stoker. I will guess that the new CyberQ2 will allow all temp probes to be used like with a pro com 4. I am with Todd I like that the stoker can have a bunch of food probes to monitor all the meats that can be in a cooker. I will be interested in seeing the new CyberQ2
 
So this new piece of equipment has USB out. My pit is outside, about 15 feet from my house. My Computer is in the house, some 40 feet from that. Do I string a USB cable, some 60 feet fromt he bottom of the guru through the door across the house to my computer (which is a mac, so I don't know if it will even see the USB).

With my Stoker, I plug the thing into my wireless router, and its on my network.

Just confused as to the USB. Any of you Tech-heads explain the choice of USB over Ethernet?
 
Originally posted by james brosche:
Just confused as to the USB. Any of you Tech-heads explain the choice of USB over Ethernet?
Click to expand...

USB is not as odd a choice of interface as it might first appear.

First, network interfaces, even gigabit network interfaces are available as USB peripherals. There are also some non-Ethernet null modem-like cables that can directly connect two computers. These usually behave as network interfaces, just like the Ethernet/WiFi adapters.

Thus, for a relatively few dollars, the CyberQ2 should have Ethernet capability.

The few dollars more case is not the advantage of USB.

As a practical matter, USB is cheaper to implement as it is included in many very low level chipsets where Ethernet is not. This could result in a lower price to the consumer (in an ideal world, anyway).

The thing to remember is that USB is a master-slave interface. The CyberQ2 is a master, that is, it controls hardware interfaces using USB slave protocols. An Ethernet interface is only one possibility.

Things like printers, keyboards, video displays, other types of inputs like air velocity and pressure _might_ be usable with future firmware on the device.

These would be interesting, if they ever came to pass.

This kind of support seems to be very common on Linux based devices which would offer other interesting possibilities.

Most of the peripherals mentioned can be bought with Ethernet interfaces, but the USB implementations tend to be much cheaper. In the end, that is not bad for the consumer.

Right now, however, pretty much anything beyond a network interface via USB is pure speculate. The other USB possibilities may never be utilized. There is no whisper (in the little I have found about the device) of using the USB ports for more than just communication with the host.

From what little we can see, the Cyber Q is, despite its computer-connectedness, a very closed system not unlike its predecessors. You can look at that either as blessed simplicity or dreadful limitation, at your whim and need.
 
i already have a usb NIC that works with my wireless router so if i went Guru i would be set i assume. at least to control from the internet. i guess if i wanted to control from my PC i'd need to get another usb NIC for the PC to communicate with the Guru.
 
From what little we can see, the Cyber Q is, despite its computer-connectedness, a very closed system not unlike its predecessors. You can look at that either as blessed simplicity or dreadful limitation, at your whim and need.
Click to expand...


Nicely put - kind of like Apple vs PC days of the past.


It should be noted as John said that the only thing we know now is that the device has an USB port. That's it PERIOD! It's speculation at this point that if you plug in a USB NIC into it that it could figure out what to do with it. It might be it can only connect to another computer and that other computer serves as a server to the other nodes on the network.

If it does indeed expect an USB NIC then at this point connecting it to your network or the internet for that matter is THE SAME network setup problem you would have with a Stoker. The only difference is the Stoker has an Ethernet jack wheras the cyberQII needs a USB->Ethernet converter.

The same common network setup issues bewteen the Stoker and CyberQ:
- You are going to need another device to connect it to your WIRELESS network if that's the way you want to go.
- You will need to setup port forwarding, possibly port mapping to "see" the device from the internet
- Does the cyberQ have an on board web server?

I'll wait for a full user manual before further comment as everything at this point is assumptions.

-rob
 
Originally posted by johnbrisbin:
USB is not as odd a choice of interface as it might first appear.

First, network interfaces, even gigabit network interfaces are available as USB peripherals.
Click to expand...
I think you are relating your experience in the PC world to an embedded device and making assumptions which may not be true. Yes, there are *hardware* adapters available for USB to Ethernet/wireless. But they do nothing without software. Your PC has the software. This device may not. This is the software you need:

1. USB to Ethernet driver
2. TCP/IP network stack
3. HTTP/web server on top

It would seem to me that if it had the above three, it would already have an ethernet port since it costs next to nothing to put that interface on it. Indeed, that is the reason stoker comes with it.

My experience with devices like this is that they do NOT have the above software. But rather, a simple USB interface which you plug into a PC. Then run a program which talks to the device in a propriatary way. They may provide an SDK to then use the same interface. But maybe not.

Yes, there are lots of USB ports on consumer electronic devices. But scant few all you to plug in a network device into them. Most will only read Flash Thumb Drives and such only throug that port.

Lacking a network connection you will then deal with severe length restrictions with USB interface. And some reliability/compatibility issues with your PC. USB is a bad interface for a device which needs to be used outside where the chances of having a computer next to it is low.

So until more information becomes available,I would say the assumption should be that this is not a network capable device.
 
i agree that it's all speculation until the device and a user manual are available, but the email states "· USB interface allows monitoring and control from your PC or over the Internet" that's what leads me to believe that a usb NIC would allow me to connect to the internet from my wireless router. though i do not pretend to know much if anything about networks. i'm surprised i got my daughter's PC upstairs connected to my wireless router with her usb NIC
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but the email states "· USB interface allows monitoring and control from your PC or over the Internet"
Click to expand...

Tony,

I believe the person who made this statement was not an engineer on the project. In fact, I'm pretty sure it was Bob Trudnak after reading my email from them. Good guy but more of a salesperson and PR type.

We can only wait until we get the specs.

-rob
 
Originally posted by Amir:
I think you are relating your experience in the PC world to an embedded device and making assumptions which may not be true. Yes, there are *hardware* adapters available for USB to Ethernet/wireless. But they do nothing without software. Your PC has the software. This device may not. This is the software you need:

1. USB to Ethernet driver
2. TCP/IP network stack
3. HTTP/web server on top
Click to expand...

I was actually speaking from my experience with small embedded Linux devices retailing for amounts of money where we might expect to find this one: $150-250.

If you use Linux, you have all you the above, if the hardware is among those supported under Linux (and it would be chosen from that supported).

Nonetheless, you are correct that there has been no explicit mention of TCP/IP capability. It may not appear. If it does not, the CyberQ will not even be in the same league as the Stoker. If I were BBQ Guru designing a modern competitive response to the Stoker, I cannot imagine leaving out TCP/IP capability. Obviously, they might have a different view of competitive necessity.

I think the arguments you present are quite valid, if it is a slave USB interface. They are so damaging to the device concept that I find it hard to believe that the device would be implemented as such by reasonable people. The market for outdoor ATC systems that require the computer to be in USB cable length range (< 15 feet) has got to be really small.

Hence, my assumption that it would be a USB master device and capable of supporting some kind of network capability.

If the rumors are true, we will know shortly. It is amusing that none of the few available pictures show the shape of the plug on the bottom of the device. That would tell us a lot.

I should add, that I own a Stoker and I am very pleased with it. I consider myself a Stoker partisan. When I initially saw the BBQ Guru, it looked pretty cool, if a bit dated in functionality. I went looking for a competitor and eventually found the Stoker. The network capability was what sold me.

I would like to see a continuing competitive market because it encourages innovation.

Amir, I have also made good use of your software in recent days. Thank you very much for your contribution to the community.
 
Someone had mentioned it was too bad we couldn't see the BOTTOM of this unit. Here's a shot of it in action, not an up picture but you can see the bottom of the unit.
 
I didn't see a picture of the bottom of it. But did see a few other interesting bits:

1. It definitely uses USB jack. It is in clear sight in the next to last laptop picture. Boy, I sure would not want my laptop in that position
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. Close to heat and a little bump from falling off.

2. If you look at the picture above, you can see the interface. It appears to support two blowers as it is showing them with the percentage on (one is 48% and the other off).

3. Man, they are in dire need of my services
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. All they do is spit out the temps in larger font. It is like a giant LCD display.
 
Well, dang.

The absence of a wart on that USB cable between the CyberQII and the laptop makes the CyberQII a slave device.

That means that whatever internet connectivity they manage will be proxied through a computer sitting at USB length from the device (less than 5 meters, probably much less).

That is, hmmm, under-whelming. Lame. Disappointing.

They have not responded to the additional capabilities of the Stoker much, if at all.

I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge that my optimistic expectations were unfounded and that Amir's pessimistic ones were born out.

Hat's off to Amir!
 
disappointing indeed. The only thing that could possibly save it is a robust API but I seriously doubt that is going to happen.

They do have an extremely loyal customer base though. This is pretty much due to Bob and Fred competing in the KCBS circuit. Makes me wonder if Rock's needs or wants representation on the circuit.

-rob
 
I believe BBQ Guru has a loyal base and continue to attract people because the have a reliable product that easy to use and meets a need with ease of use that doesn't require a great deal of technical or computer knowledge to operate.

Speaking from my own personal experience the BBQ Guru folks gave me exceptional support even way out of their warranty (and did it at their expense). They answer their phones and have been there to talk me through questions I have had. This was a big factor in my choice when I was buying a year ago because I could not get either an e-mail retruned or get through on the phones to talk to anyone about the Stoker at Rocks BBQ.

I cook alot in cold weather. I probably do 75 % of my BBQ between mid November and early April and I've heard mixed results from people cooking in cold weather with the Stoker and having to put heating pads under wireless routers when the temprature is under 20 degrees.

I'm in the midwest and don't compete and think highly of this company and the products they develop because I like the simplicity that I can understand and its pretty easy to use.

That said I think its great that the Stoker has a different set of benefits for those that need to control more than the two smokers and want multiple food probes in each smoker. But other than competetiors I think thats a pretty small section of the BBQ universe. It would be fun to be able to control things from my computer but I RARELY make changes to things once they are set.

I am looking forward to seeing what it does when it comes out. Not sure if I need it or if its going to be practical now that I have an 18 and a 22 instead of three 18's (which I never cooked on more than two at a time anyways)

Now there is a devoted set of people that love all the techincal features that the Stoker has to offer and they tend to dominate this board as it is a great place to share information. I wonder if the new Guru was even designed to compete with the Stoker. I don't have those kinds of insights. There is a great product that seems to meet your needs exceptionally well Its called the Stoker I'm not sure what more you'd want as it seems perfectly suited for your needs or what your expectiations of the Cyber -Q are to be calling it things like Lame or underwhelming.

When I hear people say things like the Cyber-Q is "dissapointing" before weve even seen it or gotton any feedback on how it operates seems like an incredible race to judgement. It sounds like you are building all these expectations for the cyber-Q that it almost looks like you looking for a reason to trash it or pick it apart.

I think were all lucky that we have two companies making GREAT products in this area. They appear to fill different needs sometimes and thats ok as a matter of fact thats good because I doubt anyone is getting rich selling these things and I hope they both continue to build fun toys to enhance our BBQ experiences.
 
Tom, I couldn't agree with this statement more, "I think were all lucky that we have two companies making GREAT products in this area. They appear to fill different needs sometimes and thats ok as a matter of fact thats good because I doubt anyone is getting rich selling these things and I hope they both continue to build fun toys to enhance our BBQ experiences." Kudos to both companies as they've done the ultimate in my opinion, turned a hobby into a business.

I think the "disappointment" (if any) for some is that many were hoping for a true alternative to the Stoker, for whatever reason, and when you read what the marketing people have put out on the CyberQ they are positioning as such, "USB interface allows monitoring and control from your PC or over the Internet and Real-time fan status and percent output indication helps you to measure fuel use." The later is really probably more of a Stokerlog item vs. Stoker, however, it's Stoker's architecture enables Stokerlog and other products. I too think its a bit early for judgment and I volunteer to receive one of these units free of charge from BBQ Guru and will give my objective and unbiased opinion
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Quite frankly competition is good for us the consumer and drives each company to push the limits, become innovative and not complacent just because they're perceived as the only game in town.

For the record, I'm a Stoker fan, however, I've seen the DigiQ II in action many times and believe it's a fine product with a solid company behind it and have recommended it to many where a Stoker didn't make sense . . . so I guess you could say I haven't "drank the kool aid."
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Buy both and see which one works better for you. I've got both a stoker and a guru competitor and they both work great. I also built out a $35 DIY unit that works pretty much like a Guru and I'll use that on the circuit as well just to prove a point.

Maybe I'll start my own company and offer a third product for the ultra cheap ;-}

-rob
 
More news on the CyberQII. This is a quote from someone who saw a demo of the CyberQII at the factory:

The usb connection needs to be tethered to a computer. The promise of remote control over the internet depends on pc remote control software such as pcAnywhere or gotomypc. That way, the remote computer can connect to the pc that is tethered to the cyber-q. We did a tour of their whole facility and I'll have the video up soon. He explains this in that video.

This setup is even more of a hassle then configuring a Stoker on a network. Now you have to configure 2 PC's running PCAnywhere or Windows remote desktop as well as configuring your network. Then the PC that's connected to it has to be only a few feet away (USB limitation) to the device.
 
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