Judging smoke flavor

[Dave Russell]

Whether the end product of a cook has great smoke flavor should be an easy thing. Right? Well, I'm not so sure. There have been lots of regional "short-cuts" in modern times, whether it's banking logs in a stickburner to not have to load as often, or Carolina bbq cooked with gas. What if those examples of oversmoked or maybe "no-smoke" have been all you've had? What if boiled and grilled ribs has been your bbq?

I know for a fact that my family LOVED my pulled pork back when I was over and nasty-smoking with a cheap offset. Didn't know what the heck I was doing, but we all loved the taste the strong smoke gave the butt bark. We're from the coast though, and were really not very accustomed to good bbq.

Done with my coffee and pie, so I better finish getting ready for church. I'll ramble a little more later, and relate some observations I've made this year regarding wood and charcoal smoke on the wsm and kettle. I'd love to hear what some of ya'll have learned.

 

[Dave Russell]

Biggest thing I've noticed lately is how you can get smoke flavor on the kettle with NO WOOD if you don't let all the briqs ash over completely before cooking as Kingsford suggests.

Now I've cooked on the kettles like that many a time, but I'd ALWAYS use some wood. "If you don't use no wood, it ain't no good"...Right? Well, I've smoked some dang good wings lately with no wood!

Matter of fact, did you guys know that you really CAN tell the difference between Kingsford blue bag and Stubbs if you start the cook before the briqs ash over and the charcoal smoke "disappears"? The wife and I noticed this from the last two wing cooks where I was targeting 300*. I'd lit the K on the previous cook with a torch, but used four Weber starter cubes buried in the Stubb's for the wing cook yesterday. No, the visible smoke didn't last as long this time, but it didn't smell the same, either. Of course it doesn't, but since I didn't use wood either cook I was able to judge the flavor from the charcoal alone and there was definately a difference.

Can I tell the difference on the wsm between Kbb and Stubb's, though? That's the queastion, but best I can recall I've never cooked with the wsm with NO wood at all. Of course, I've got a hotter fire in the bottom of my wsm so I suspect the smoke flavor from the charcoal alone is pretty minimal. Anyone care to weigh in on that?

 

[George Curtis]

i've kinda given up worrying to much about this. i just use what i feel like and go from there. most times i'm fine. once in a while it might not be that good and those times i can't really tell what happened. i think on the big/huge cookers you can get away with a lot but with smaller ones you need to be a bit more on top of things. i usually use just a smull chink or two. don't want the smoke to overpower the meat.

 

[Dave Russell]

I hear ya George, but wouldn't you like to know why when it doesn't turn out as good? I know I'm anal, but I just try to notice things.

For instance, I'm about embarrassed at how long it took me to notice this: If my smoke disappears before I want it to, I'll get NASTY strong smoke EVERY SINGLE TIME if I reach in with tongs and turn a wood chunk over.

Talked with a buddy recently and he's noticed the same thing. Don't understand it, but I don't do THAT anymore. If I need to add wood I'll preheat it outside of the ring and then add to the coals.

 

[George Curtis]

i use very little wood and no i don't turn the wood cuz its usually burnt through. i've added new chunks and had no problems. yes, i do want to know but usually by now i kinda know so i don't do those things anymore.

 

[Dave Russell]

Well yeah, they do that eventually. Even though I try to keep a decently hot fire, my wood chunks typically quit smoking well before burning up.

As to not having "any problems" when adding wood, I guess you wouldn't, since you use "very little wood". No surprise there, right?

Anyway, you said "thingS". Besides turning chunks, care to share any other "things" you don't do anymore?

 

[George Curtis]

one thing i read and believe is that you still are getting smoke or whatever from the wood even though you don't see the smoke. if it smells like the wood then its good to go. things like using less wood. not waiting for the kettle to get fully hot before putting the meat on. not micro managing the temps. not sweating the small stuff. no need for foil. just stuff you come up with as you get more experiance. no, i'm not perfect but have found my nich. but i do like to learn so i do things to see how it goes and then adjust from there.

 

[Dave Russell]

George, sounds like it's working for ya, so there ya go.

Thanks for the suggestions. Much appreciated.

 

[DK Smith]

Maybe a tad off topic... I've only noticed a bad tasting smoky flavor when grease is falling on coals and/or some type of hot surface. I've noticed this on the kettle as well. As long as I avoid that and adjust the amount of smoke wood for what type of meat I'm cooking I've found good results.

 

[Dave Russell]

DK, burning grease smoke isn't off topic at all. Folks might equate it with "fat in the fire" smoke from cooking over the coals, but I don't think it's the same.

As far as just using "less wood", I'd like to know why that's such a reoccurring theme with so many posters here? How did everyone arrive at their wood amounts for certain cooks? Sounds to me like someone tasted something they didn't like, and just decided to use less of it next time...or maybe they just do what they others do.

My point is, I think there's OVERsmoking, and then there's putting BAD smoke on the meat. I say I THINK that, but I KNOW that from using stickburners where you are burning 100% wood for the ENTIRE cook. Burn it clean and the bbq tastes GREAT! Bank the fire and shut down the oxygen and you can completely ruin a rack of ribs! We're not cooking with the wood on the wsm, but the same principle has some bearing.

 

[timothy]

Dave.
Imo, less is more comes down to smokewood that has the right moisture content. When I use the bagged hickory from HD or wherever I use more. When I have the hickory on hand from an online source I use less. Again Imo its like the difference between using spices from the SM compared to using a fresher one from Penzeys.
Now havin said all of that, I still use chips or pellets which have zero MC on quick cooks on the kettle or short smokes on the WSM.

A few tips I read on here that helped me clean up my smoke (on the WSM) and make a better tasting bbq (for meself) was to split the chunks into 4-5 smaller pcs, scatter the smokewood over the un-lit than add the lit over the top.

Tim

 

[Dave Russell]

I agree with all those points, Timothy. Regarding smaller pieces of wood, I do think there's something to that. I found with the small stickburner that you wanted a small, compact fire, and the best way to maintain that and get good smoke was to add preheated SMALL splits.

Also, I think pouring the lit over the wood is a good way to go as well. I'd do as Gary Wiviott suggests in "Low and Slow" though, and wait a few minutes for the smoke to clean up. Actually, he has an interesting method, and I think it speaks to the nature of how you can get away with using more wood when cooking over a hot bed of coals.

He makes my case, actually. Funny that a guy would be so particular about not using anything but lump (and not even leftover lump), but then use so much wood. Again, I mention that to point out that he's cooking over a WATER pan, over a HOT bed of coals. I'll come back and post his method in a while so check it out if you haven't seen it. You could call it a very modified Minion method, to say the least.

 

[timothy]

Yea post it Dave. I seem to remember reading it awhile back, but refresh my memory.
I always enjoy reading how everyone fires up the WSM cause I'm always interested in learning a new trick.

Tim

 

[Dave Russell]

Here's G. Wiviott's wsm method from "Low and Slow". He says to use nothing but fresh lump, and clean debarked wood. <span class="ev_code_RED">HICKORY</span> is suggested, and unless I missed it, nothing is mentioned about the size of the chunks, other than just to use what comes in the bags from the stores. The illustrations look about fist-sized to me.

My point isn't to suggest that Wiviott's method is the right way to do it. I don't even know if I've ever tried it exactly that way. However, note how much wood he uses. As I said though, he's cooking over a hot bed of lump! He estimates that he cooks 250-275*, and I'd think that the old shallow wsm pan would make that easier. <span class="ev_code_RED"> Could YOU use 10 chunks of wood for a pork butt?! Would you? Could you? </span>

<span class="ev_code_RED">NOTE:</span>Wiviott's method was for the pre '09 18.5" wsm. There's not enough room for the charcoal he piles up with the current wsm water pan in place, so you'd have to get a Brinkman charcoal pan. Even if you have the Brinkman pan though, the hot squat is not nearly as easy or as safe since the pre '09 pan would be nearly empty with Wiviott's method on his cooker. (Be very careful out if you're to try the hot squat with much water in the pan.)

First open all vents.

Fill the charcoal chamber (ring) halfway with unlit.

Lay <span class="ev_code_RED">3 wood chunks</span> on top of the unlit.

Fill chimney half full and pour over the wood chunks and charoal in the ring. The charcoal level should be just below the top edge of the ring.

Light a whole chimney's worth and when it's "fully engaged", pour over the unlit and wood in the ring.

When the charcoal stops "billowing white smoke (about five minutes after you pour the lit charcoal into the chamber)", add <span class="ev_code_RED">three more wood chunks</span> to the pile and set up the cooker. Pour water in the pan.

The cooker will "billow white smoke" for about 5 minutes. "When the smoke dies down to steady, lighter puffs"...add the meat and return the lid.

Restocking and adding wood (from the pork butt chapter at the five hour mark)

Light a full chimney.

When fully engaged, (do the hot squat) and remove the center ring off the bowl.

Redistribute the hot coals in the ring with tongs.

Pour UNlit charcoal on to fill the chamber to an inch below the top of the ring.

Lay <span class="ev_code_RED">2 chunks of wood</span> on top.

Pour the lit chimney on.

"When the charcoal stops billowing white smoke, about 10 minutes, add <span class="ev_code_RED">two more chunks of wood</span> to the pile."

Reassemble the cooker and refill the water pan.

 

[Glenn W]

A nice clean burning fire with wood placed in the right places is key for a good smoke flavor! Whether using water, clay or whatever. Like Dave said if it smells good it is good or if it smells bad it is bad.........!

More later, I am in the middle of lots of testing with.........methods!

 

[Dave Russell]

Well said, Glenn W.

I was just checking out Wiviott's interview here back in '09. I might've missed it, but I didn't notice anyone asking him to explain the why's of his "K.I.S.S Method" for the wsm (that I layed out in my previous post). Wiviott's method is radically different from how most of us learned to cook on the wsm with the Minion method, so I think it's kind of a shame that he wasn't even asked about it. Did I miss it somewhere?

 

[Glenn W]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">so I think it's kind of a shame that he wasn't even asked about it. Did I miss it somewhere? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No you didn't, I believe somewhere in the middle of his method and the cold fire method is where I am. That's the key. I also think that a true Q noobee can make better Q than most "BBQ" joints serve is some of the issue with smoke & flavor!

 

[Dave Russell]

I'm in the same boat, and I believe you're exactly right concerning folk's experiences.

Picked up four fryers today that I might try the Wiviott KISS method on after the weather clears. Might even pick up some RO lump if they've still got it at Walmart.

Noticed on pg. 45 that Wiviott's a proponent of "the occasional wisp of thin, blue smoke" and says that "a proper, clean-burning fire doesn't produce much superfluous smoke." That's in the "sight" category. In the "smell" paragraph, he's suggesting you actually smell the smoke during the cook. Makes sense to me.

 

[DK Smith]

If I used Wiviot's method of a full lit chimney and 6 wood chunks I would run over 250-275. With water in the pan I'd probably run about 325-350 or so, no water 350-375. One thing that no one seems to talk about is how wood chunks can create a heat jump and burn off too quickly (and lose smoke flavor). Thats one reason why I have found that putting my meat on a 'cold' smoker is best for me.

 

[Dave Russell]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dksmith17:
If I used Wiviot's method of a full lit chimney and 6 wood chunks I would run over 250-275. With water in the pan I'd probably run about 325-350 or so, no water 350-375. One thing that no one seems to talk about is how wood chunks can create a heat jump and burn off too quickly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

DK, the point is that it works for him, and he cooks in the 250-275* range....but may I ask how you know your temps would be so high?

Have you noticed that wood buried in the coals will burn much slower than wood on top? Have you used much lump in your cooker? Have you noticed that it'll respond to vent changes quicker than briquettes, especially Kingsford? Have you checked for an out of round condition and tried tweaking your door for a better fit?

Your cooker might be leaking like a sieve, but I can tell you without equivocation that I can use Wiviott's KISS method and keep my temps in the 250-275* range, no problem. On your cooker you might have to shut the vents back instead of leaving them open, but you should be able to do the same, especially with the added water capacity of the Brinkman charcoal pan. The lump's burn is gonna slow down tremendously in the 10 minutes or so total that Wiviott suggests to wait for good smoke. Kingsford is a different story, though.

One other thing though regarding the wood... the idea is to get the meat on the grate and top on before those wood chunks catch fire, and it won't help if the wood chunks are too small or dry. Also, I might be wrong, but I think I find that nutwoods are slower to catch fire than fruitwoods due to their much greater density. Pecan's a great nutwood to use when you want a milder flavor, like for ribs or poultry.

Hope something there helps ya out, but the point isn't that Wiviott's way is the way to go. Like Glenn W. said, I'm somewhere between that and a cold fire. IF you're smoking technique amounts to simply using less wood, then you're getting some bad smoke and simply minimizing it by using very little wood.