I made meat mush


 
I agree with most of what has been said already re: internal temps/tenderness and re: the cause of meat mush.

Just as a point of interest Myhrvold discusses the effect of foiling BBQ and its effects on the meat from a chemistry perspective.

Foiling accelerates cooking because by enclosing the meat it traps all the moisture which in turn prevents surface evaporation from the meat.

Meat in a dry environment loses lots of heat energy via evaporation. Preventing evaporation allows the meat to cook faster with the same amount of incoming heat energy.
 
Yes, because more retained moisture, coupled with the lack of its loss, means cooking is more efficient. Heat transfers much better through moist air - the key reason why braising works well.
 
Kevin,

I was pondering what you said about IT, and trying to understand why that would be, so it makes sense in my own mind. So here's how I'm thinking about it, and you tell me if this makes sense.....

If we're cooking to "tender" then IT is only one variable in what makes meat tender, and doesn't tell the whole story, as the other variables include the time spent at various IT, as well as the density and makeup of the meat. So for example, if we could theoretically take a shoulder from 40 to 200 degrees IT in five minutes, it would probably NOT be tender, because it has not had enough time at those temps to properly gelatinize and dissolve all that connective tissue that makes the meat tough.

Conversely, a shoulder might theoretically be tender and thus properly "done" at 180, if it spent a great deal of time at and getting to that temp- by giving the requisite time needed to dissolve that connective tissue at the lower temps.

So, in practical application- if I'm thinking of this correctly- a high heat, quicker cook will probably need a higher IT all else being equal, whereas a low and slow cook needed wouldn't need to get so hot internally, because time did more of the work.

Do I have that right?
 
Only somewhat. The humidity created by the water doesn't really surround the meat and stay in the cooker. It gets carried off by the draft. Though it can have an affect on the meat's surface, in terms of bark and texture, and some (but not much) on evaporative loss, it does not offer enough of a moist environment to increase heat transfer.
 
Sorry. Missed that post.

You are correct in your interpretation. Note, however, that it is not that tender in a high heat cook "needs" a high internal temp - time is still the issue - it is that it is likely that the IT will be higher because the cooktemp is.

Tenderness is a product of time primarily - relative to mass and cooktemp. One can take a brisket, say, or short ribs,and cook sous video at temps no higher than 140, and the meat will get tender, though it will take a day or two to get there.
 
Kevin,

So one piece of meat might be tender and perfect at 190, and an identical piece of meat might be overcooked at 180, depending on how long it was cooked?
 
Done is done. IT is a guideline to get you there, just like grate temp. If you had no instruments to measure, done would be when it is tender (for most folks).

On another side, knowing that medium rare for steak is around X degrees (using X, just so we don't have an IT argument), I generally don't feel the need to measure IT. The spring (or my personal doneness) of the meat is the indicator.

If I can go back to Jim's original post, call that mush Pate and make guests feel special that you're spoiling them
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JDH
 
Yes, Matt, different meats, however similar, can finish at different internal temps depending on how long - and at what cooktemp - each cooked. Because moisture loss and rendering occurs more slowly at lower temps the 'done window' is wider. Still, as we see in braising a meat cut completely covered in liquid, one can still overcook to the point of dryness.

I don't find grate temp a guideline. I don't find it useful at all, frankly; rather unreliable and I don't bother.

IT might be a guide but I don't find that people use it that way, especially when things don't turn out as planned. As we see on this and other boards, like this thread, a discussion of finish temps ensues with various claims for done occurring or correlating with this temp or that, or meat not usually being overcooked at this temp or that. And so on. Once again, imo, this shows that despite anyone's best intentions, focusing on IT is something many find unavoidable.

For most cooks most of the time I find IT is much more a hindrance than a guideline, contrary claims notwithstanding.
 
This happens when it is cooked to long in foil. If you cook too hot and too long WITH OUT foiling the meat can become too dry. I have had to finish my butts in the oven lots of times. If the butts are done by temperature but they will not 'pull" then I foil them and cook in the WSM or use the oven at a higher temp (foiled) to get them too pull. Like every one says, there are so many factors at hand, so it is not an exact science. You have weather / temperature, is the meat big or small, fire too hot cold. etc...
 
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