Help with Butts & Chicken for a party this Sat.


 
S

Steve Gervais

New member
I will be cooking (I really didn't want this responsibility since I have only had the smoker 2 weeks) for my wife's, friend, fathers retirement party picnic. I'm in charge of the 2 meats and 40 hot dogs for roughly 75 people- 15/20 being children. There is going to be a lot of sides and snacks. I will also be doing two pans of Barbie's "Down South, 'Ole Home, Good 'Ole Boy, Southern Red Oak Smoked BBQ Beans".

Back to the meat. Pulled pork is what they want for one of the meats. The Father thinks 3 ounces per sandwich is enough. We settled on 4 ounces lol. So I plan on doing roughly 35 pounds of raw meat, being 4 butts.

Now to cooking them.. I have only done 3 cooks on the WSM. (cooked on a CharGriller before the WSM). I have been very pleased with my results and temp controls of the smoker so far. But..... I have only done cooks on the top shelf and that consisting of doing two butts each time. The butts were just rubbed and let go until (no foil) roughly 195, or until the probe could be inserted with ease.

My setup is a foiled water pan with a foiled 14" terra cotta saucer. Using this it has held like a champ at 250 dome with the bottom vents all mostly shut down. I use Royal Oak Lump, with the minion method and have had no problems getting a 12 hr plus cook.

What I guess I'm getting at is I have no clue what to expect or do with regards on how different the butts on bottom will cook compared to the top? Will I have to rotate the racks during the cook, ect? I would really like to do all 4 at one time but I'm pretty nervous about it. Any help and experience in this situation would be greatly appreciated!

The second meat will be chicken. The original plan was to grill the pieces on site but found out no cookers are allowed at this site, sigh. I don't want to cook the pieces at home and then have to transfer them, I don't know how I would keep them at a safe temp, and I imagine the quality would suffer also.

So now the plan is pulled chicken, something I have never done as we enjoy pieces, grilled. I have a case (40lbs) of chicken thighs ordered that I will be working with. I'm also thinking of adding 2 or 3 whole birds to get some white meat in there also.

I would like to load up the WSM (instead of grilling on the Weber kettle) with the thighs- But (theme here) again I have no clue what to expect cooking on both levels, not to mention never even cooked chicken on the WSM before.

Would I want to smoke them like the butt setup? Or could I ditch the terra cotta saucer and water pan even all together? Sorry for all these dumb questions with such short notice. I was really looking forward to just grilling the pieces on site
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I really would prefer not to have to monkey around with brining or marinating, although the Roadside Chicken marinade and basting always sounded like a winner and was maybe going to try that with the orginal plan of grilling on site.

I also need to mention that both meats will be done tonight and friday now. They will be pulled, put in either heavy duty zip lock bags or food saver bags and cooled in a cooler full of ice and refrigerated untill serving time Saturday evening.

Reheating.... Does simmering them in water until warmed, then into nesco's sound like a good plan? I really don't want to have to heat them up in the Nesco totally in fear of drying out the meat especially the chicken. The chicken will not be sauced, but on the side. Is there any good liquid combo that could be used to help liven up the chicken if it would happen to be on the dry side, sort of like a pork finishing sauce?

O boy, another ramble question. Like I mentioned earlier I have done 3 cooks of Butts and have never foiled at that 160/5 area. Do you think I might be better of foiling these ones to try and get some extra juice that I can de-fat to mix in while reheating the butts for more flavor and moistness?

Thank You so much in advance for any and all help to calm my nerves and help to make the food enjoyable for all at the party.
 
Calm down Steve, it'll be okay. First off, the butts. Two on top-fat side up, two on bottom-fat side down. Dome temp of 265* The butts on bottom will cook slower. If you want them to get done all at about the same time rotate them after about 6-7 hrs. OR ... just take the top two off when done and then replace them with the bottom two. They should finish within 90 minutes or so. No need to foil unless you want to speed up the cook. Foil and rest for a while, then pull and put into foodsaver bags.
The chicken. Biggest complaint about smoking chicken is the skin. Beings you're doing pulled, the skin doesn't matter. (I assume you're not using the skin) Cook it the same way as the butts, as many as you can get on top and the rest on the bottom. Once the top ones (thighs) are done at 175* or so, bring up the ones from the bottom and finish them. Again 265* dome temp. Rest, pull, put in foodsaver bags.

If you're doing foodsaver bags, reheat on high simmer (not quite a full boil) for about 15 minutes. Transfer to nescos and serve. To keep your moisture level where you want it just use some chicken broth. Maybe mix in some of your rub or a little bbq sauce with it. The broth alone will work fine though.

You could tranfer the meat into aluminum pans and reheat in the oven as well. A full (not overfull) pan of pulled meat at 325* will take about 45 minutes, give or take.

Hope this helps!
 
Cook the butts tonight. Four is no big deal. No need to rotate, usually, though using ceramic in the pan you might want to a bit more than halfway through the cook so as not to overcook the bottoms of those bottom butts.

I would not foil the butts unless you have to speed them up. Foiling will not do anything much for flavor. I don't think butts cooked correctly need more moisture but I do use a finishing sauce to better equalize flavors and texture.

Pull the pork (and add the finishing sauce, if using), then allow to cool, then pack and chill. Don't pack hot pork into bags.

I and most here who reheat in water vac-pack into FoodSaver (or similar) bags. I don't know how well Ziplocs work here.

I wouldn't do pulled chicken at all. I'd high-heat the thighs, no pan, in batches so as not to crowd, till just safe. Then I'd finish in a sauce bath. They bcan be immediately finished after grilling or could be cooled and finished day of. (Along these lines.) You can do the sauce bath phase in a low oven (keep the temp at low simmer, tops). You can take the pans right from the oven to the party and hold in the Nesco or, if finished in sauce ahead of time and chilled, you can vac and reheat in water or you could reheat in the Nesco.
 
Okay Kevin, I guess I should've said, "cool first,"
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I knew you'd cover for me. Thanks!

For the record: I wouldn't want to do the pulled chicken either. Not a big fan of it myself.
 
You're welcome!
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(I was writing when you were but posted later. Didn't see your post till mine posted--so the 'covering' was a by-product.)

No, the pork is pulled so good enough on the pulled front. I'd use a little finishing sauce in it while pulling but d=serve sauce on side for service. The chicken, served intact, just coated in sauce, would look better and work better, imo, with the pulled pork.
 
Thanks a million for all the help! I now feel pretty confident with doing all four butts at once tonight.

I went shopping for supplies and to pick up the Butts this afternoon.. I asked about the case of thighs and those are a no go now. Chickens qtrs (.59c a lb), bone in breast (.89lb), boneless chicken thighs (1.44lb) Jumbo (they didn't look to jumbo to me)Chicken wings (.99 lb) and 3lb whole chickens for .89 a pound are the chicken options available per case now.

I'm really not digging doing chicken at all, specially with just finding out no grills are allowed there to cook, or finish up the chicken on a grill.

I really like the bath idea Kevin had tho. I'm just worried 1) I'm going to end up with a rubbery skin with no way of putting a crisp to them. 2) I'm afraid of just having chicken covered in BBQ sauce for a option. That's the main reason I was going to try pulled chicken so they could just top the meat with the sauces I provide if they so choose. LoL I'm so confused now.

I really don't want a 55# case of 3lb whole birds to cook and pull I don't think. I could cut up the 40lb case of chicken qtrs and maybe do the bath mode with either the leg or thigh, and pull which ever part I don't use for sandwiches? I could smoke a couple whole birds also to get a some white meat added in I guess.

Or sigh. I could get a 40lb box of wings and do half sauced and half just seasoned with rub? We're pretty positive there is a oven there where we could reheat them and give them a shot with the broiler to crisp up, and then into the nescos. I just feel that looks like more of an appetizer than a second meal meat?

On to, Beef which I have NO clue how to make.. I did do a small chuck roast a yr or so back and from what I remember that was pretty tasty pulled? I could maybe do a couple of those to add with the wings so it wouldn't feel like I was just serving an appetizer (wings) for the second meat.. Gosh I'm rambling.

Brisket is what I always wanted to do for the second meat, but lack of having no time to practice and the intimidation factor scared me off. Do you agree I shouldn't give brisket a go? It would sure make things easier....... I think. But would 2 W/E size briskets that could fit (I don't know what the largest lb of brisket would even fit on a rack) even be enough for the party? Slice the flats, and burnt ends with the point? I'm just totally scared of turning that brisket flat into jerky.

Ok, my head hurts from rambling, and I'm sure y'all heads hurt to from reading that.

Thanks SOOO much again for all the help so far. I look forward to hearing what all you pro's think after that ramble.

I'm going to take the dog for a walk and mix up the rub to relax and think for a bit, lol. Guess I knew I didn't want to take on this responsibility.. If I could only say, NO.

Be back a lil later.
 
First, do what you want. Don't worry about whether or not people would want sauced chicken. It's an option. Most people are fine with it and the one's that aren't--oh, well.

Crispy skin is not an option. Ain't gonna happen. Evern if you could crisp the skin it won't hold as crispy very long. The point of the bath is that you can gently finish the chicken without overcooking it, and reheat it gently without overcooking it. The primary concern for these large do-ahead affairs is choosing items that can be done in such a way and reheated in such a way that the chance of ending up with dry meat is minimized. All else is secondary.

One thing about doing the bath thing is there is no expectation of crispy skin. What you want is tender, bite throuh skin. (See here, and a couple posts above.) Alternatively, you can remove the skin before the bath and serve skinless (many people don't eat it anyway). This works for breasts and thighs but not so well for legs, imo, as legs look weird skinless.

I wouldn't do wings myself, nor, since they're new to you, briskets. I wouldn't do chuck because I wouldn't want two pulled items. I'd go with skin-on quarters, split, and go for tender skin; breasts and thighs, skinless or skin-on--or another idea that might be just the ticket: turkey breast. They are easy to do, most people like turkey, you can slice after cooling and arrange in pans for the fridge, and turkey reheats fairly easily with some added moisture and a little fat but, served, read as virtually sauceless. I'd consider 4, b/s breasts. After cooking and resting they can be halved in the middle first (where the breastbone was) then each half cut crosswise into 1/4-inch slices. Eliminates the skin issue, is still poultry, aren't hard to cook, aren't hard to reheat, don't need to be served sauced. Hmmm?
 
Kevin,

Thank you so much AGAIN for the detailed and informative help. I'm going to go with the chicken bath with qtrs, split. Just have to decide if I want to marinade. I do have a bottle of Mojo Criollo and Wishbown Zesty Italian. Would you consider either of those two suitable? I read on one of the threads you directed me to that one guy really liked- Paul Newman's Own (Olive Oil and Vinegar).

I also like your suggestion of turkey breast a lot. I think I will make a couple of those also if time allows. Would you recommend a brine for those?

I'm going to stop stressing tonight about the second meat and get focused on getting the butts done right and out of the way. Once that's done it will be a relief and I can focus on the finer details of the chicken cook.

Have a great remaining night and TY again for all the help!

Ugh, just looked at the latest Forecast Discussion for here... And... Go Figure.

AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE MILWAUKEE/SULLIVAN WI
319 PM CDT THU SEP 11 2008

.DISCUSSION...FORECAST FOCUS ON SHOWER/T-STORM CHANCES
TONIGHT AND SOME LINGERING CHANCES FRIDAY...BEFORE A BATCH OF
HEAVY RAIN FRIDAY NIGHT AND SATURDAY...THEN WITH THE EVOLUTION OF
THE REMNANTS OF HURRICANE IKE FOR LATER IN THE WEEKEND.
 
Butts are finally on! Had a heck of a time trying to squeeze 2 butts on a rack. It's darn windy out there so I cut the WSM box I had in the garage to form a half arse wind block. Hope no ashes fall out
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WSM is chugging along without a hiccup along with me. Amazing how set and forget this cooker is. Very relaxing night with a faint hint of smoke drifting in form time to time with the swirling wind.

Weather looks to be all down hill after tomorrow evening. Just glad the rain stayed south tonight. Hopefully I can get the beans done before the rain tomorrow. Then on to the dreaded, chicken.. lol.
 
I can almost smell that cook out here. Sounds good. Curious to see how your chicken turns out as well. Take some pics.

I've done a lot of chicken on the WSM using it without the water pan, direct over the coals - but on the regular grates - leaving the middle section on. I've loaded up both racks. Allows a good distance to the fire.

You can jack the heat up as you wish by opening the door and control the flares with the lid. You can easily add more fuel through the side door if needed since the water pan won't be in the way.

Fire is far enough away to keep things from burning or cooking too quickly. Nice alternative to "smoking" the chicken on the WSM or using the kettle.

Great method especially for Bryan's Roadside Chicken. I've always used lump when doing this, less chance of extinguishing the fire with the drippings, and burns hotter.

I've done 25lb of thighs this way as well as mixed pieces with great results. You can still use the sauce bath too.

Skin will crisp nicely as well. Nice natural smoke flavor from the burning drippings without getting things black on the bottom as can happen when grilling to close to the fire. Adding wood chips works fine, just as it would on a standard grill/kettle. I typically marinate or brine and marinate when grilling chicken.

I have used this method two ways. One where I leave the foiled water pan in at the start of the cook for an hour or so, then remove it for the remainder of the cook. The other with the pan out for the entire cook. Just depends on what I'm trying for or type of meat I'm grilling. With chicken leaving it out the entire time eliminates the need to finish grill. It depends whether you want to crisp it right away or later if you are not going to serve right away, etc.

Also talk about it here:

Simple Chicken

Here's and example where I left the pan in for part of the cook:

Road Chicken
 
Hi Benash!

Your post now, Kevin's and Rick's has giving me a pick me up for sure to turn out some good chicken yet. Almost to the point of fool proof with they way you have all described your chicken techniques and cooks for me.

I have always wanted to do the Roadside Chicken and this seems like the way to go. I can marinade the chicken in it, baste with it, and like you said you won't get the charred bottoms like doing it on the Weber. Not that there is anything wrong with some charred chicken on the Weber for home consumption.. I just have a really good feeling about going the Roadside Chicken route along with the bath..

Do you think I should load it up? or just do batches on the bottom rack like you would on the Weber and have easy access to basting and turning? I will be doing the chicken qtrs split. I would think I could do the legs and thighs in a total of two batches each with a 40# case on just the bottom rack?

Now to the safety part.. What would be my best way to cool those chicken parts down.. Can I bring them in the house to rest for a little bit, then toss them into a a pan in an ice filled cooler while I cook the next batch? Then foil and into the fridge after the next batch is done, rinse and repeat?

Bringing them back to life will have to be done in the oven if there (better be) is one! I will be contacting them ASAP this AM.

If oven is a go, do we just throw a couple pans in there, covered and let simmer at like 200 hundred or so for an hr? Do I have to check them and stir to coat in sauce half way? The chicken will be going into a Nesco to stay warm.

Another ramble. could I maybe cut down the simmer time in the first two pans, transfer to the Nesco. say around a half hr before serving time, let them finish doing their their thing in there, and then throw the next batch in the oven to be done around 5:30 which would allow them a hr of simmer time and be warm to replace the first batch...

Omgosh, the ramble is on again... I'm so sorry, and will just shut up and wait for the pro's.


Ok, I lied. I should talk about bath sauce. I have a crap load of Sweet Baby Rays (cheeseheads like that stuff lol) and I was thinking of using that to make the.. Fat Johnny's Bastardized Piedmont Sauce. Do you think that would be vinegar over kill combined with the Roadside Chicken? Does it even go well (ingredients look pretty good for pulled pork) with chicken in a bath? Is it spicy? LoL omg done.

I really need to check and see if my side door is still hanging on lol. I went out last time to check and it was laying on the ground and will no longer keep a tight fit. Temps were up to 310, and the rub I'm using- Chris Lilly's is loaded with sugar.

Again, TY so much for all your time and help, Y'all.. I Will take a few pics of the butts when I switch the racks around pretty soon.- It's going on 6.5 hrs now!
 
Just checked the temp after the spike and it fell to 220 after I shut down the vents. The 2 I closed I opened up 100% and I will check where the WSM is at in about 15 mins.

Lmao, actually this might be a good time to switch racks and stick one of the smaller butts from the bottom and see what temp it's at.

Bye... lol.
 
What don't you like about the color? Looking good to me! It's ok if they are not meteorites. Did the rub you use has a low sugar content?
Todd
 
Originally posted by Todd Randall:
What don't you like about the color? Looking good to me! It's ok if they are not meteorites. Did the rub you use has a low sugar content?
Todd
Click to expand...

TY, Todd
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Just thought I would see a lil more dark bark with all that sugar. My temps have been running right around 250ish at the dome. The smaller butt I stuck (with the probe) from the bottom is reading 162 now.

I used, Chris Lilly's Six-time World Championship Pork Shoulder rub, doubled. Seems pretty sugar filled? The Only change I did was used 3/4 cup Sweet Hungarian Paprika and a 1/4 cup sweet ancho chile pepper for the the cup of regular paprika.

1/4 cup dark brown sugar
1/2 cup white sugar
1/2 cup paprika
1/3 cup garlic salt
1/3 cup kosher salt
1 tablespoon chili powder
1 teaspoon oregano leaves
1 teaspoon cayenne pepper
1 teaspoon ground cumin
1 teaspoon black pepper
 
Ok, if you are just at 160's now and keep running 225-250, you still probably have a good long plateau to get through, so they will be on for a good bit longer and will darken up for you nicly I bet.

Todd
 
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