Fuel usage and temp too low?


 
W

Werner

TVWBB Member
Hi...
I posted this also in Barbecue. Not sure which is more fitting for my question. Im not new to BBQ but I am new to WSM... My previous smoker while it served me well, was a go Kart compared to my WSM. Im trying to get used to using it but had the following question/observations after my first smoke
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I bought the new WSM last Xmas and am embarrassed to say that today was the first time I was able to use it after a very busy summer.

I chose something prety basic. After my first cook I have a few questions. I did some loin back ribs and used the minion method. I figured I wouldnt fill the bowl completely since I would only need 4-6 hours on these. What I noticed is the temp having trouble getting above 225. I think there is some learning curve with the new WSM and the dampers with me but I was surprised how quickly the fuel was consumed and how difficult it was to get above 225. Usually I dont smoke much above 225 but its nice to be in a 225-250 range.

I got maybe only four hours out of the charcoal (just Kingsford) before having to add more. If there was a leak I would suspect I would be running hot.

Here are a few obvservations and mistakes I know I made. First I used cold tap water for the bowl. Probably quite a bit of charcoal used getting this up to temp. I varied the dampers from full to half without getting a good equilibrium, but I think thats mostly me getting used to it.

Also it was 55 or 55 degrees all day with a slight breeze. Its 40 now and dropping quickly. I live in New England after all.

I guess the question I have is whether this is normal? More fuel at the start? Set up a barrier? Dont cook in the fall? I hear of folks getting 18 hours with a load of charcoal and was surprised to only get 4 hours with maybe 1/2 to 2/3 full. Again the cooker is brand new so maybe that is part of it.

Lastly, whisps of smoke from the door and lid I am assuming are pretty normal especially before more use.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or comments.

Werner
 
If your going to use water I suggest using hot water. You didn't say how many lit in your mm. I would start with 20-40 if using water. I always use 3/4 to a full ring of cc, mostly full no matter what I'm cooking.

Leave all vents 100% open till 25 deg from your target temp, then set the bottoms at 30% and wait 20 min at least before you adjust from there.

I have done WSM cooks in the teens and 20's with no issues, maybe used a little more fuel but not much.

Go load up on cc and meat and keep on keeping on, you will get the hang of it! Do not get hung up on temps, as long as you are 225-<300 your Q'n. Don't get crazy with measuring temps all over the cooker, check your factory guage in boiling water and stay with it. Mine is within 10-15 of the vent and top grate.

Quote:
Hi...
I posted this also in Barbecue.

I would use this one and delete the other in BBQ'n.
wsmsmile8gm.gif
 
I realize this may be an 'elementary' question,,,but was the lid vent open all the way?
That's one way to to totally slow down the cook.
How much meat was involved? A large quantity of meat is another heat sink.
What thermometer were you using? The stock therms have proven to be inaccurate.
Most important,,,how was the cook?
 
Thanks Glen...

Big help...I am guessing it was maybe 30 lit. I didnt count them although I should have...A little too confident I think. Im having the exact opposite effect that I have with my previous smoker. My previous one leaked too much so I know it runs hot and was somewhat used to it. Ill have to start with warmer/hotter water I think from from what you said and go from there. Control is MUCH better on the WSM.

Ill post pics as I get better. Ribs came out pretty good... too much salt I think...I did Coriander, mustard, salt, and brown sugar...Came out pretty good
 
I don't count them out exactly, just a rough count as you dump them in the chimney. It is a good measuring cup so to speak!

I don't use salt in my rubs anymore, salt the meat 1st then apply rub to taste for this reason.
 
Werner, congrats on finally getting your 1st cook in. Most folks find the WSM runs hotter in the beginning untill a good gunk is established. My biggest suggestion is drop the water all together, especially if you want to use less coal. As GLenn said, fill the coal ring to the top for every cook. I dump my unused in a metal can and save for my next cook. I use them in the chimney. If you really can't get your temps up with all vents 100% open, you can turn the door upside down, open about an inch and support it with something ingenious. Helps to wedge a small piece of smoke wood in the door opening. You should be able to achieve temps in the mid to high 300s if you want.

Practice a bit more and enjoy. We are always here to answer any questions. We sometimes even know the right answer, or many right answers.

Happy Smokin'

Mark
 
Thanks for all the help everyone...

Mike, I always leave the top one open. Im assuming this is the right way to go. While this is my first cook on the WSM, I have a kettle and another cheap smoker (GrandMac Triple). Ive always kept the top open full so the smoke doesnt get trapped making it too smokey.

So is it best to always leave the top vent open all the way?

As far as amount of meat, it was 3 racks of loin back. Since they were not spares I figured it would take 4-6 hours and be tender.

As far as how the ribs came out pretty darn good. Too salty though. Good flavor. Pulled off the bone nicely but not falling off. Not bad for my first on the WSM.

I noticed the temp didnt fluctuate drastically as it did in my old smoker. I was just a bit disappointed in figuring out how to raise the temp. If I wanted something closer to 275 I would have never gotten there.

Filling it to the top is a good idea. I can always use the leftover in the kettle as well.

Glen, I used about half chimney. Maybe I should have used more. I am in the habit of not overdoing it because of my old smoker. It had air leaks so even with minion method temp could go through the roof. So I cut back on the number of coals to start.

Lastly, toward the end of the cook I couldnt get the temp above 200. I was trying to get it to 225, but couldnt get there. I was a little surprised with all vents open

Do people finish their ribs on the grill? Thats typically what I do but not sure what others do..

Thanks again for all the help everyone
 
Mike... Also I was using the built in therm on the lid. I probably should have done what I have done in the past and fed in a meat therm through the lid and dangle it in the air coming out. I didnt do this though thinking the lid therm on the new cooker would be accurate. Good point though. The Grand Mac I have has one in the lid and is always 10 degrees or so off.
 
I've read posts here that indicate that the 'built-in' therm can be as much as 25 d off.
You might check it in a pot of boiling water.
I smoked 2 racks of loin backs today with a full ring and 6 chunks of wood.
I let it run with all bottom vents closed for an hour before I put the ribs on, just to let it settle down.
For the shorter cooks I prefer the 'standard start' of a weber chimney full of blue, lit and burning in the ring, then another chimney of cold spread on top. This will pretty much fill the ring.
Since the ambient temp has cooled, I used the clay saucer instead of water.
Kept the cooker at around 230 for five hours, no problem,
 
that is kind of funny... i just got my new 22.5 wsm and found it hard to keep the temp. i used lump charcoal and thought maybe that was the problem since the manual tells you too use briquette.
i put about 7-8lbs plus a full chimney (minion) and only seemed to get about 4 hours till the temp started dropping. am i doing something wrong with the vents?
i did use a full water pan of hot water.
after 4 hours i just added some more lump and closed vents to a 1/3 and thought i would be able to let it go..(was cooking a 8lb boston butt) however, a few hours later i came back and temp was down to 190 on the grate.
so too make a long story short...
i felt like i used an awful lot of fuel (used to doing this on a kettle)
and still was not able to keep temp up for very long. any thoughts or suggestions would be great
 
Chad: Use less water. Only about a gallon. See if that doesn't make a difference. I'm no authority, but that is a mistake that I made on my first smoke. The temp wouldn't go up above 225 and if I closed down the vents at the bottom, the temp would drop. I felt like this was ridiculous. I thought about what I had done wrong. I realized that there was too much water, even though I had used HOT water. While I was ringing my hands about what to do, I asked my husband, the solver of all problems, how we could safely get some water out. He came out of the garage with this gadget that he uses to change oil. It has a suction tube and a canister to hold the fluid. You pump the handle and it creates a vacuum in the canister which sucks fluid up through the tube. We used it to remove about half of the water from the pan, and voila! The temp. rose, I closed the vents to 25%, and everything went according to Hoyle for the rest of the smoke.

Note to self: use less water next time.
 
I'm new to the WSM too. I fill my water pan mostly full and can't get above 275 unless I start cheating and opening the side door to get extra oxygen to the fire.

Is there a draw back to a waterless smoke? Should I just foil the plan and let it rip? I'm smoking a pork shoulder next weekend for 10 hours or so and don't want to be constantly tending the fire. Will a waterless smoke add too much temperature fluctuation?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Is there a draw back to a waterless smoke? Should I just foil the plan and let it rip? I'm smoking a pork shoulder next weekend for 10 hours or so and don't want to be constantly tending the fire. Will a waterless smoke add too much temperature fluctuation? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

At anytime you are trying for temps above 250 you are wasting fuel for no reason with water.

If you start with 10 lit and catch at 180-200 you will be fine if your unit is air tight. You can always add a foiled 12.25" clay saucer for insurance. Shoulders are very forgiving on temps. As long as you stay under 300 your fine. It much easier to get a cooker going up in temp than to come down.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Edit or Delete MessageReport This Post IP
Ignored post by chad adcox posted November 18, 2010 12:01 PM Show Post </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Man !!! Temperature frustrations, Part 2.

I think from what Patti said, I should try a lot less water, even though I used hot tap water. Im trying some chicken thighs to end the season and used hot tap water this time and tried standard, non-minion method this time. Full, full chimney and its work to get this even to 225. Sitting at 200 right now and cant get it to bump even with all vents open. I tried to open the door but the seemed to let the cold air in.

Its just about freezing here in New Hampshire, maybe a little above. This still typical? Less water? wind shield?

Uggghhh...apologies for revisiting this. With the old smoker it would be leaky so it would run really hot. But I also would have it put away til next summer by now. Im not used to having it run cold.
 
Where are you measuring temp at? Have you checked the accuracy of your thermometer? No need for water especially with poultry. Cock the lid slightly and your temps will climb shortly.
 
Like Glenn said, I'd definately check your therm in boiling water. No tools are needed to remove it, as there's a wing nut.

The way I see it, since you already stated that you're keeping the exhaust vent open, either you've got some damp charcoal, a bad gauge, or the weather is a lot worse up there than you're letting on. Typically, a wsm will run a LOT hotter when it's new.
icon_confused.gif
 
Hey Glen...

I have been using the lid temp gauge. I have the newer model so its built in. I also take an oven therm and dangle it through the lid vent and have it dangle it free in the air stream.

Dave....maybe the charcoal is damp... I keep it in one of those Kingsford Charcoal kaddy. I also have a thermometer outside. I think its pretty accurate. Its about 31.5 degrees ( and dropping right now). Sounds about right since Im still running out there in short sleeves.

Ill try and check the water temp. Hopefully I can dangle the probe therm into the bowl.

Make sense?

Werner
 
I really doubt it's the charcoal, kind of just thinking of the possibilities. Oh, and before I forget, I don't think you're supposed to put most probes into boiling water, so be careful there. Speaking of water though, I start off with a full boiling tea pot and then top off w/ hot tap water out of a 2 liter soda bottle.

Also, I don't put meat on right out of the fridge. I don't let it come to room temp, but I do like to let it sit out a bit, especially if I'm going to do a cooker full. I didn't have any problems with my cooker coming up to temp when it was new. Now, I have to use more lit, and I might've mentioned my drum I cut in half for a wind break. I'd definately use something, and if it's really cold, skipping the water can't hurt if you have much meat on the cooker.

Good luck w/ it, and post back if you have any other thoughts or queastions. There's got to be a solution to your issue.
 
So here is the deal as best I can tell.

- Dangle probe through vent lid and it measures about 225. Move it around and it goes to maybe 230-235 depending on where in the air stream. Lid therm only measures about 210 I think. 2 ticks on the therm with 5 degrees per tick

- checked the meat therm by boiling water and measuring. I do this usually to see how far my therm is off, both that and ice water. The boiling water measures 210-212 so its practically right on.

Also there is some, but very little water vapor exiting around the lid therm.

So what do I do? Get a new therm on the lid? Just account for the difference assuming it is off? Are these that far off (15 degrees)?

Maybe the therm is accurate since its on the opposite side of the lid from where Im feeding a probe through the vent.
 
Doesn't sound like you've got a therm issue at all, including the factory gauge. The gauge is out of the stream of circulation so it consistantly reads pretty low, at least for the first half of the cook, depending on how much meat is on the cooker. On the other hand, you may already know that a probe hanging in the vent will read 15 degrees or so higher than the middle of the top grate.
 
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