Foiling?


 

Stone

TVWBB Super Fan
Maybe it's a little late for me to be asking questions, considering my brisket and butts have been on the smoker since 11 p.m. I've been smoking for a few years now, and have never "foiled." Yes, I know, it's hard to admit.

I've read about it. Can someone describe the purpose and the technique? (I.e., does it speed up the end of the smoke? Is it wrapping tightly with foil and putting back on the smoker?)

Thanks.
 
Foiling usually speeds up the cooking process. I usually foil briskets and butts somwhere between 155 - 165 degres. Depending on how I feel and how the cook is going I may add a touch of liquid to the foiled meat. Then you pull at the desired finished temp and wrap another layer of foil around the meat for a double layer. Careful, the meat will cook fast when foiled. Put the meat in a cooler to rest.

The draw back is that your bark will be soft. The best part is that there will be some liquid in the foil. Save the liquid and defat it. You can make a nice dipping sauce out of it.

I've heard of people foiling at alower temp, then unfoiling within 10 degrees of the finished temp, and putting the unfoiled meat back in the smoker. That was done to firm up the bark.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rich langer:
Are you interested in a thread on foiling?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes. That would be perfect. Let's have thread on foiling.

(Just kidding. Thanks,Rich.)
 
I like barky bark on butts so I never foil. If I need them sooner I just cook at higher temps. Brisket I cook at higher temps anyway, foil about 2-2.5 hours into the cook. I don't care so much about bark texture on brisket--just that it remains there. To facilitate this, I do a dry-over-paste rub thing. (Brisket can be removed from the foil and returned to the cooker--like other meats can--to firm up the bark.)

Ribs I foil to add a flavor layer. I use a juice blend, often pineapple mixed with strong tamarind; I'm not concerned with speeding them up as they don't take long to begin with. I foil ribs toward the end and cook them till done while in the foil. I do, then, remove them and return them to the grates for the bark to dry and firm. This only takes a few minutes though.
 
Putting 2 and 2 together from other posts, I don't think anyone recommends foiling until after 150/160 degrees. Presumably that is because the knowledge/believe that the smoke ring/smoke flavor is imparted into/onto the meat throughout the cooking process up to about 140 degrees. Smoke Ring courtesy of Russell

Presumably after that point in the cooking temp you start having diminished returns (re: imparting smoke flavor or formation of ring) on exposing the meat directly to the wood smoke.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Presumably after that point in the cooking temp you start having diminished returns (re: imparting smoke flavor or formation of ring) on exposing the meat directly to the wood smoke. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not the former: smoke particulates will adhere to the meat as long as they're present and the meat is unfoiled, irrespective of temp. The chemical reaction that produces a smokering does slow or stop as meat temp rises but the presence, size, or lack of a smokering is not indicative of smoke flavor. It's just pretty.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Presumably after that point in the cooking temp you start having diminished returns (re: imparting smoke flavor or formation of ring) on exposing the meat directly to the wood smoke. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not the former: smoke particulates will adhere to the meat as long as they're present and the meat is unfoiled, irrespective of temp. The chemical reaction that produces a smokering does slow or stop as meat temp rises but the presence, size, or lack of a smokering is not indicative of smoke flavor. It's just pretty.
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</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

True, and I have to concede that I have no where near the experience that you have, however, whatever additional smoke particles adhere to the meat I doubt their affect on the smoky taste of the meat increases in a linear fashion. Don't know if I stated that very well, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that meat exposed 16 hours to smoke is not going to taste twice as smoky as meat smoked 8 hours. There, IMO, gets to a point where the smoke flavor is saturated and the meat can't really "absorb" any more(Edit - can't taste any smokier).

Being devil's advocate: I've never continually added smoke wood (electric or WSM) so I suppose I haven't truly tested my theory by continuing to pour on the smoke until the end of the cook. IOW - exposing the meat to just as much smoke the first 8 hours of the cook as the second 8 hours. Having said that, I still think there is a point of limited returns which is why foiling doesn't appreciably affect the smoky flavor of the meat.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Eric Aarseth:

There, IMO, gets to a point where the smoke flavor is saturated and the meat can't really "absorb" any more. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think I would like to change that sentence to "There, IMO, gets to a point where the smoke flavor is saturated and the meat doesn't taste any smokier"
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Eric Aarseth:
True, and I have to concede that I have no where near the experience that you have, however, whatever additional smoke particles adhere to the meat I doubt their affect on the smoky taste of the meat increases in a linear fashion. Don't know if I stated that very well, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that meat exposed 16 hours to smoke is not going to taste twice as smoky as meat smoked 8 hours. There, IMO, gets to a point where the smoke flavor is saturated and the meat can't really "absorb" any more. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
One could make a similar analogy to any seasoning added to food, since smoke is deposited on the meat, and not absorbed by it. Let's take salt or pepper, for example: After adding salt or pepper to a certain point, a food will not taste any more salty or peppery than before that point. Of course, it will have ceased to taste like the food, and will taste only like salt or pepper. I don't think anyone would be interested in eating it at that point, either.

I think it's important to take the focus off of smoke-- we're not smoking here, we're barbecueing.
 
To be sure, the notion of "barbecueing" before the last few years meant BBQ sauce - period. So to me, the style of cooking, is a combination of a slow-cooker and a smoker - the sauce is optional. This obviously then becomes more of a symantic discussion strongly influenced by regional preferences.

Regardless, we truly are talking about barbecuing (low & slow with wood smoke flavor) and this thread took off from Stone's question about foiling and then my observations (based primarily on reading other's cook results [e.g. Kevin Kruger]) on the timing of the foiling so as not to block the smoke flavoring/ring formation process.

BTW - IMHO, no smoke = no barbeque. My wife cooks to die for brisket, pot roast style. Either in the oven or the slow-cooker. It isn't barbeque - why?
 
"Barbecueing", in the most strict sense, never meant anything to do with sauce. Strictly defined, barbecue means cooking indirectly, at [relatively] low temps, over wood coals, with or without the addition of smokewoods for additional flavoring. Therefore, oven-roasted brisket would not be, by definition, barbecue, no matter how enjoyable the final result.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Doug D:
"Barbecueing", in the most strict sense, never meant anything to do with sauce. Strictly defined, barbecue means cooking indirectly, at [relatively] low temps, over wood coals, with or without the addition of smokewoods for additional flavoring. Therefore, oven-roasted brisket would not be, by definition, barbecue, no matter how enjoyable the final result. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yet within your own answer you conclude the same as I, barbeque must have smoke-flavoring introduced by the burning of wood. Ergo - when discussing how much smoke flavor is introduced and whether or not it is inhibited by some item (e.g. foil) we are still "talking" about barbequeing.
 
Lets forget about foil for a moment.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Eric Aarseth:
Putting 2 and 2 together from other posts, I don't think anyone recommends foiling until after 150/160 degrees. Presumably that is because the knowledge/believe that the smoke ring/smoke flavor is imparted into/onto the meat throughout the cooking process up to about 140 degrees. Smoke Ring courtesy of Russell </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you want smokering formation, you must expose the meat to smoke while it is between 40 and 140°F. Outside of that range, no chemical reaction that forms smokering will occur.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Presumably after that point in the cooking temp you start having diminished returns (re: imparting smoke flavor or formation of ring) on exposing the meat directly to the wood smoke. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, as long as you burn smokewood in the fire, smoke particulants will be deposited on the meat, and, if the meat is unfoiled, the effects of deposition will be cumulative.
 
To most of the world, "barbequing" simply means cooking something outside and to smaller minority, it means cooking something slowly, for a longtime, outside.

Whatever it is, it sho' is good !
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Paul
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">No, as long as you burn smokewood in the fire, smoke particulants will be deposited on the meat, and, if the meat is unfoiled, the effects of deposition will be cumulative </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Right.

Two definitions of the barbecue colloquialism 'oversmoked' come to mind: the first, the use of a wood that produces a strong-tasting smoke, inappropriate for the item being cooked; and the use of an excess quantity of wood, either all at once or over the cooking period, producing a product too smoky to be enjoyed, often too smoky (sometimes too bitter) to be edible.

Meat adsorbs. Notwithstanding the rhetoric one sees hither and yon about smoke 'absorption' and smoke 'penetration', I see little evidence to support this. Though it seems likely that some elements of the smoke deposited on the meat might be carried into it, somewhat, by moving juices and by the very nature of the meat's surface (creviced as it is), I would hardly define this as penetration or absorption. One might expect that over a significant period of time, such as the time some smoked country hams are allowed to age after smoking, that some actual penetration of smoke volatiles might occur as stabilization takes place between cells, but I don't see evidence of this possibility in the relatively short cooktimes and service of what most of us do here.

I don't see how smoke particulates would all of a sudden, at some given point, stop accumulating in some 'linear fashion' though, of course, individual tasters might not be able to distinguish subtle changes in smokiness. However, I would argue, from experience and numerous anecdotal references here and elsewhere, that there might well come a point where, given that smoke was present in sufficient amounts well into or throughout the cook, the meat becomes 'oversmoked' and, often, unpalatable.
 
I concede, if for no other reason than I think at some point 1) this conversation got off track from its original focus and 2) I'm not convinced we aren't all saying about the same thing and the difference is in symantics as well as less than careful use of certain terms.

I think Kevin's last point, that my perception (or more accurately, hypothesis) that the smokiness reaches a plateau may be more a function of inability to taste the difference versus the smoke particle buildup being reduced or stopping.
 
Despite all the definitions of smoking, we can all agree that smoking is good. As for foiling, if I am cooking ribs or shoulder I will wrap my ribs in foil for about the last hour or so after they are done and I have smothered it in sauce. I do not put sauce on my shoulder at all.
 

 

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