First Cook - Temp Swings & Other Stuff


 
Scott C.

Scott C.

TVWBB Super Fan
I got through my first cook with my new 22.5 WSM and ran into a few issues, some of which I think I can fix.

I cooked two packages (6 slabs) of the Costco rib lions, and I'm not so sure I would do those again, but I'll explain later. I used a rub and let them sit on trays for about 2 hours. I was hoping to do the 3-2-1 method ( proportionately to 5 hours total), running at 275, but things didn't quite work out that way.

Anyway, I did the chimney, and filled the charcoal Minion style with a coffee can - about 8 lbs worth. Gave the chimney 30 minutes, then poured them into the can and removed it. All OK so far.

Waited about 20 minutes, added two chunks of Hickory and two chunks of Apple, and I then began assembling the smoker. Added the middle section, then the pan (foil wrapped bottom). I filled it with 2 gallons of cold tap water, which I now think was a mistake. I then added the bottom grate and put on three of the slabs. Then the top grate with the last 3 slabs orientated perpendicularly, and lastly the top.

At first, the smoker would not go over 225, with all vents wide open, and it was stuck there for about a 1-1/2 hour. I suspect that was due to the cold water, but at 1-1/2 hours in, I went out to check it and found it was pushing 300. I closed all of the bottoms 1/2 way, and watched. I did open the top slightly and the ribs looked pretty dark. I suspect it got hotter than 300 at the grates, but there's no way to tell.

Anyway, I got the temps down around 275, but it just kept bounching around from 250 to 300. I did open the door and I was shocked to see how much coal had burned so I threw about 15 more briquets in there. I got to the 3 hours in, and pulled the slabs, wrapped them upside-down in HD foil with about a 1/4 cup of apple juice. Swapped the lower slabs to the top and visa versa, and ran them for another 1/1-2 hours.

The problem was, when I was trying to remove the ribs from the foil, a couple of them stuck to the foil and I accidently peeled the top from the ribs. Looked awful. Did the best I could to put the parts back together, but that was disappointing. I think next time, I'll spray the foil or something. The last 1/2 hour I put on a little sauce and let them go.

When I pulled them, they were pretty dark. Thank goodness for the sauce to hide it, but they were dark. Anyway, they were good, but very, very smokey. So much so, that I'll cut it back to just one chunk of each, and probably cut back to Pecan and Apple, instead of the Hickory. Also, again, I wasn't so impressed with the Costco ribs as they seemed to have a fatty layer just above the ribs, and a layer of meat on top. The ribs were falling apart but the fat was still white and didn't seem very rendered. I dunno.

In the past, I've cooked these Costco ribs in the oven for 5 hours at ~250, then put them on the grill at 375 with a light coating of sauce to finish them off, and the cook that way seemed better that way (obviously without the smoke). Just didn't seem that the smoker cooked them as consistently, which I guess is par for the course with a smoker.

One of the other things I will change is using HOT tap water. In fact, I might not even use water. I think the cold water is what made it impossible to break over 225 for the first hour or so, and caused me to use alot of fuel. After the cook, there were only a few small portions of coal briquets left, so I ended up going through almost a full 9 lbs for a 5 hour cook. Seems like alot!

The outside temp in Chicago was around 35 with a bit of wind, but I had it blocked pretty well. While I'm sure there were a number of factors, including being a brand new smoker that lead to the temp variances, it's pretty clear I have some learning to do. Just ordered a ET-732 and a SS door. Hopefully, that will help. I've been looking for a clay saucer, but I'm striking out there. I have however found a 19" pizza stone online and wonder if that would work? http://www.centralrestaurant.com/Pizza-Baking-Stone-19-inDiam-c106p3522.html I wonder if I can just remove the pan all together and just use this? However, I wonder of it might crack and fall into the coals?

Well, I'd like to open myself up to critique and tips to see if my hunches are correct.

TIA
 
I also just got my WSM this past week and smoked a 5 pound butt on it to darn near perfection. I used hot tap water and had the butt out on the counter for a half hour to get the chill off. After setting up my smoker (using the minion method and a full ring of coals around the coffee can I added a full charcoal chimney of white hot coals) I opened the 3 bottom vents to 25% and left the top fully open.I putt the butt on then the lid and that smoker climbed right to 275 and did'nt budge for 8 or so hours at which point it dropped to around 260.At the 9 hour point of the 12 hour cook I went 75% open on the bottom vents to set my bark and it worked great It was 40 degrees here in the bay area. Nothing wrong with using a water pan in my opinion ....I get great bark and temp control that way plus I don't have to mop or spray so often to keep the meat moist.To each his own ! SMOKE ON !
 
Scott, you have a lot of information there so I will adress a few of them and I know others will chime in..

First, the minion method.. Not exactly sure what you did the way you described it, but once your coals are lit in the chimney you can pour them on the unlit coals and immediately assemble the smoker. No need to wait. With the smoker assembled, leave all the vents open until you near the desired temp, then slowly adjust them. You will have to practice with that.

Second the water pan. I have only had my smoker for a few months and quickly did away with the water pan and went to the clay saucer as you thought about. Alot of people still use water and have success with it (such as Dwain P) but for us non-seasoned beginners I think the clay saucer takes alot of guesswork out of it. Home depot seems to have a better selection of clay saucers.

Third, you are right about a new smoker. When your smoker is brand new, for some reason the temps seem to fluctuate a little more. Some experience this and some dont. I did and after a few cooks and your smoker getting smoked and greased up a little, it will balance out.

Fourth, the maverick will make a big difference as well. On my smoker, the built in thermo bounces up and down all over the place sometimes and sometimes it stays steady. There is alot of talk about thermo's on here as well but I couldnt survive without my thermoworks thermo. Again I think its much easier for a beginner.

Hope this helps and you will probably get a lot more responses
 
Water in the pan is designed to be a big heat sink and help keep temps near the 225 mark. Nothing wrong with that temp, unless you are trying to run at a different temp. I believe you used the coffee can to create a center crator in your charcoal bowl if I follow correctly and used a full chimney of lit. That is a lot of lit and the water pan held down your temps until you had the charcoal bowl catch and by then you had a big fire going. More than the water pan could control.

If you want to run around 225, try starting with hot water and 15-20 coals lit and sprinkled on top. If you want to run 275, skip the water
 
3 hours + 1.5 foiled + .5 in a 275-300+ degree smoker is a long time for baby backs.
What charcoal did you use?
 
You guessed most of what you did wrong. If using the water pan fill with hot water. Like Rick said assemble the cooker right away and adjust your vents on the way up. Every time you lift the lid or look in the door you are adding oxygen so it will cause temp spikes.

As for spritzing and mopping, this does not add moisture or keep the meat moist. All it does is add another layer of flavour to the ribs. Meat is made moist by the break down of fat (colegen?) that is attached to the muscle fibres.

Temperature swings are normal so don't sweat it if the cooker temps keep varieing by 25-30 degrees. Next time you use your oven put your Maverick probe in and you'll be surprised at the temp swing your oven has.
 
I think most of your questions have been answered but I wanted to mention something about the pizza stone. If you go with the stone you will have to put something in the smoker to catch any grease that might fall down and on pork butts there will be quite a bit of grease. You don't want that grease to roll off that flat pizza stone and onto your coals. Talk about black meat if that happens. I personally run my water pan empty and simply wrap it in foil. I can cook anywhere from 225 to 325 that way. The water in the pan does help even out the swings but it was a pain in the rear after the cook was over trying to get that water pan out without making a big mess.

One other thing is be careful with the hickory. It is strong and gives you a strong smokey flavor. I had that on my first cook as well and have moved mostly to fruit wood and oak.
 
After reading your post two things came to mind that I really just recently got a handle on but they made my last cook a steady 250 for 8 hours this past saturday: 1.) actual grate temp vs. dome thermometer temp - your 225 could very easily been 275 so when it jumped to 300 you could have been 350. Thats just the difference in temps at the two locations. Your new maverick or a oven thermometer from the grocery store will help you compare and adjust accordingly. 2.) regulating temp for long cooks was always a challenge for me until I read a post here recently about whether you have to use all 3 vents or not. Turns out some folks don't(h/t Bob Mann!). So this past saturday I closed 2 of the 3 and only adjusted with the one closest to the door and that temp stayed between 245 and 260 for the entire 8 hours. I might have touched the vent 3 or 4 times. It stayed 50% open most of the time. I couldn't believe it.

Hope this helps and good luck next time.
 
Whether it's briquettes or lump, I follow the same routine.

I fill my charcoal ring to the top with 4 or 5 fist sized chunks of wood mixed in the charcoal.
I light it in 3 places, in between the vents, with a high output propane torch.
I let it go for about 10 or 15 minutes then put the WSM together.
I bring the cooker slowly up to my cooking temperature, then put the meat on.
I do most of my cooks around 275F.
I leave the top vent fully open and generally 2 of the bottom vents are fully closed and the third about half.
I do not use water, I use a foiled clay flower pot base in the foiled water pan.

Bob
 
You definitely have enough good advice to make a second try of it and then you can go from there... but I'd say just to use apple wood. Better to go too light than too heavy on the ribs and they're actually quite good just with a couple of chunks of apple.
 
Thanks everyone for the great feedback. I spent the weekend doing a bunch of mods to the WSM and building a windscreen, all of which I hope helps.

Anyway, there were a number of questions asked, and thought I'd answer those.

On the fire strategy, yes, I abbreviated the Coffee Can/Minion method description, but I took a empty large coffe can, removed the end, and set that in the center. I poured the coals around the can. Then after about 30 minutes I poured the hot chiney coals in the middle of the can, and then removed the can. I read about this a few different times, so I thought this was a pretty common way to use a coffee can? Also, I used the standard Kingsford, that I got from Lowes in the 2-20lb bags for $19.95.

On the cold water, yes, dumb move. While I have found a 16" clay saucer I will try, when I do use water, I will definely be using HOT water hereforth. That said, I screwed up when I mentioned the 8 lbs of coal. I thought this was a 10 lbs bag, but it was 20 lbs, so for a ~5 hour cook, I used ~18 lbs of coal, again mostly likely due to the cold water. The reason why I waited 30 minutes to put the meat on after assembly as it took that long to heat up, again due to the cold water. Lesson learned.

Next, I thought I stated these were not baby back, but those big and thick Costco Loin Ribs. Again, the problem with those are some have a layer of fat right above the ribs, and then a meat section above. So I'll have to oil the foil before puting them top down so I don't tear off the top again. That was heartbreaking.

Pizza stones I hear must be supported in the middle so they don't crack, so I aced that thinking and the biggest clay saucer I could find at Home Depot was 16". I'll give that a try next time for ribs and chicken that needs a bit more heat (~275+). For lower heat (225-250) I think I should use water at least until I get better at this.

On the temps, yes I don't trust that dome gauge, so I did just get my Maverick ET-732. I also drilled the side for the 1/4" ID to fit the probes - (Thanks for the tip I read Bob Mann). The SS door is on it's way as well. I will say when I mentioned peeking in, I didn't remove the lid completely, I just lifted the front edge about 4" to peek. The dome temp only dropped 10-15 degrees, so it didn't effect things much. However, now with the Maverick, that will solve that issue.

The other mods I did was added casters to the bottom of the legs, put handles on the charcoal grate and wired the coal basket to the grate. I also put handles on the lower rack, and installed the garage door handles at all 4 sides. As mentioned, I drilled the hole for the probes, and yesterday built a wind screen out of PVC, and bungied a 6" x 8" tarp around a L-Shaped folding frame. During the winter here, I situate the WSM in a corner in between my garage doors, so with the garage door closed, the WSM will be completely surrounded to help protect against the wind. That and the SS door, should help alot with managing the temps, once I get the vent strategy down.

Soooo, next Saturday I'm going to try a brisket, and I'm a little nervous. The plan is to use a liberal rub, bag it and let it set in the fridge for 24 hours. I got the brisket from Costco and it weights 7.5 lbs. I'm not sure how much to trim, but if the fat on the one side is thicker that 1/4", I'll trim it a bit. I chose a brisket that seemed to be pretty uniformly thick, so I hope that helps with the eveness. Based on what I've been reading here and elsewhere, I should shoot for 225-250 at the grate and figure around 8 to 10 hours. If I put it on at 6 am, it should be done by 4, then still give it some time to sit. If it finishes earlier, I'll just wrap it, and hold it a couple of hours in a cooler or microwave. Planning to eat around 5 PM. I'd rather be safe that sorry.

Now, the questions are, with the lower temps, I'm thinking I should use water? Also, how should I insert the meat probe? This brisket is only maybe 1-1/2" thick, so I don't think a typical angled down will hold very well. Should I stick in in deeply horizontally from the thicker end say 3" to 4" deep, centered between the top and bottom?

From there, I cook it straight on the grates until it reaches around 150-160 then foil with a little bit of apple juice (yes/no or something else?) until it gets to 195-205 then pull it. Does this sound right?

I'll do the Minion /Coffee Can method, with probably a full 20 lbs of charcoal. Top vent full open, and bottom 3 open until I get to target grate temp, then close two and leave one open 1/2 and see how that settles. I'm thinking a mix of 50% Oak and 50% Apple, but I'm just not sure where to find the Oak. Seems everyone around here carries Mesquite, Hickory, Pecan, Apple, and Cherry chunks in the bag, but I haven't seen Oak yet. If push comes to shove, I guess I'll have to use Pecan and Apple. Is that OK? Due to the stong flavor I got from the Hickory last time, I think I'll stay clear from that for awhile.

Any other tips or suggestions? Thanks guys!
 
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Hi Scott,

Those loin back ribs from Costco are indeed baby backs. The two terms are the same. However, the loin back ribs from Costco are cut extremely generous and do include a fair amount of loin meat still attached. Many like that exta meaty rib. I don't because it keeps the slabs and even one end of a slab from cooking evenly. I have started to filet that extra loin meat off and cook separately for some chef snacks.

As for your brisket, a 7.5 pounder from Costco is probally just the flat and well trimmed already. I would leave what fat it has on it, and foil around 160-165 til finished. Many prefer to "crutch" a flat since there isn't a fatty point.

Good luck and let us know.
 
Hi Jeff,

Interesting post. I thought I read in a few post here, that the Costco 3 pack ribs were at a slightly different height of the rib than baby back, and includes a bit of the chop, which is where the added meat comes from? I'm just a newbie obviously, so I don't know locations well, but I have cooked them in the oven a number of times with just salt and pepper for about 5 hours at 275, then I'd grill them with a little sauce for 15 to 20 minutes, just long enough to firm up the sauce. They always came out great, but again very meaty and you have to be careful so the top layers of meat doesn't separate. Seeing I don't have confidence in trimming the Costco ribs, I think next time I'll just buy baby back trimmed ribs from the butcher and see how those go.

On the brisket, after looking at a few How-To's on the home page on trimming brisket, you are right, this one looks pretty well trimmed already. I'll check it, but I'm guessing I won't have to trim much at all.

When I do foil, should I add ony apple juice or anything? Thanks!
 
There are as many different opinions on brisket as there are on ribs. :)

Most will say to foil around 160-165*, or when the bark is where you want it then cook to tender. I hesitate to give you a final temp, but find 195-205 to be where I want it. For a liquid, most common is ether just beef broth, or a combo of broth and other flavors you are looking for. Give just beef broth a try for your first.
 
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