Im doing a cook with my firedial. My third. I’m having trouble keeping the heat down at 225*-250* range. I started with the minion method, although the lit coals spread quickly. Temp got up to 290*! I closed the bottom vents, but the temp kept rising. I had to close the top vent to get the heat down. Amy ideas?
Firedial Heat Control
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Jim C in Denver
TVWBB All-Star
I use a Firedial in my 18.5.
On a hot day, I will only use 10 lit coals to start. Two bottom vents fully closed from the start.
One bottom vent adjusted as needed. Top vent wide open.
Find it easier to control the temp by fiddling with just one control.
On a hot day, I will only use 10 lit coals to start. Two bottom vents fully closed from the start.
One bottom vent adjusted as needed. Top vent wide open.
Find it easier to control the temp by fiddling with just one control.
Yeah, I think I’m done with the fire dial. I did a brisket over night, and the bottom is crisp. This morning I put some chix on the bottom rack, and too many ribs on the top. Even though the temp at the top was reading 230ish, the chix were done quickly, and the bottoms were burnt. Maybe I’m doing something wrong.
Dustin Dorsey
TVWBB Hall of Fame
I think you are might be onto something. I looked into buying one but I was worried about the same thing. I think the ideal set up is some kind of diffuser with an air gap. I wanna rig up something like two disks bolted together with a gap where the top rests where the water pan sits.
Jonas-Switzerland
TVWBB Fan
Its just a plate, isn't it?
Last few days I've been hypothethizing a lot abouy IR/Black body radiation vs convection.
Basically I believe the WSM mainly works with convection. I believe the round water pan helps push the hot air to the side, which then cools it before it hits the food.
IR heat is basically the direct heat from the charcoal plus any very hot part (thanks to black body radiation). So if the plate gets really hot without any heatsink to dissipate the energy, it too will shed IR radiation.
So far, my WSM 22 was just too big to cook on two racks. On the top I do not feel like I haveBut this thread makes me curious if my setup also has the issue. And I bought an IR thermometer for frying in the wok...
Anyways, I use wrapped water pan with additionally a aluminium pan inside it for quick cleanup. IMO aluminium is reflective, and should reflect most of the IR heat away from the pan, and the radiation which the pan sheds away from the meat. But so far that's just a hypothesis.
IMO before you do something crazy, you can also try to put / stack some aluminium pans in the water bowl. This too creates an air gap...
Last few days I've been hypothethizing a lot abouy IR/Black body radiation vs convection.
Basically I believe the WSM mainly works with convection. I believe the round water pan helps push the hot air to the side, which then cools it before it hits the food.
IR heat is basically the direct heat from the charcoal plus any very hot part (thanks to black body radiation). So if the plate gets really hot without any heatsink to dissipate the energy, it too will shed IR radiation.
So far, my WSM 22 was just too big to cook on two racks. On the top I do not feel like I haveBut this thread makes me curious if my setup also has the issue. And I bought an IR thermometer for frying in the wok...
Anyways, I use wrapped water pan with additionally a aluminium pan inside it for quick cleanup. IMO aluminium is reflective, and should reflect most of the IR heat away from the pan, and the radiation which the pan sheds away from the meat. But so far that's just a hypothesis.
IMO before you do something crazy, you can also try to put / stack some aluminium pans in the water bowl. This too creates an air gap...
Dustin Dorsey
TVWBB Hall of Fame
Obviously, if you just use the water it does work by convection. A lot of people choose not to. It really is a pain to deal with the dirty water afterwards, so I get that. It works fine without water for the most part but I think an air gap of some kind goes a long way. I usually put foil over the top of the pan which creates somewhat of a gap. The advantage of something flat like the fire dial is easier access to the charcoal.
Jim C in Denver
TVWBB All-Star
I don’t think it is radiation. Lots of cookers use some kind of diffuser disc and they all would radiate to some extent when heated. Clay, metal, sand etc. should not make any difference.
Because the Firedial has slots, the more likely explanation is that you are getting more convective heat flow up the center of the cooker to the bottom of the lower rack. With a water pan, pizza pan, clay saucer or any other solid diffuser, the hot air travels up the perimeter of the cylinder until it is past the diffuser. So the sides are hot and the center is cooler. See Chris' description below of the WSM "burn zone" below.
As you can see from Chris' temp tests below, the WSM lower rack generally runs cooler than the top when using a solid diffuser. One rationale for the FireDial is that it evens the heat out more between the lower and top rack. Meaning the bottom rack runs a bit hotter. It also is supposed to even out the heat side to side and so eliminate the burn zone going up the sides. I'd assume the Hunsaker Vortex diffuser would yield similar results.
Overall I like the FD a lot and have adapted my cooking to it. You save a lot of space and mess as compared to using the overly deep 18.5 water pan. Very fuel efficient. Makes the lower rack more use-able for cooking imo.
For brisket, I separate the point and flat. The thick fatty point can suck up a lot of heat, so that goes on the bottom rack. The lean flat that can dry out or get overdone goes on the top rack where it is further from the fire and where I can tend to it easier.
If you don't like the convection flow up the middle, just use some kind of soild diffuser. Or foil the FireDial to block the slots. That should make the bottom rack and the cooker center cooler than if the slots are open.
www.virtualweberbullet.com
www.virtualweberbullet.com
Because the Firedial has slots, the more likely explanation is that you are getting more convective heat flow up the center of the cooker to the bottom of the lower rack. With a water pan, pizza pan, clay saucer or any other solid diffuser, the hot air travels up the perimeter of the cylinder until it is past the diffuser. So the sides are hot and the center is cooler. See Chris' description below of the WSM "burn zone" below.
As you can see from Chris' temp tests below, the WSM lower rack generally runs cooler than the top when using a solid diffuser. One rationale for the FireDial is that it evens the heat out more between the lower and top rack. Meaning the bottom rack runs a bit hotter. It also is supposed to even out the heat side to side and so eliminate the burn zone going up the sides. I'd assume the Hunsaker Vortex diffuser would yield similar results.
Overall I like the FD a lot and have adapted my cooking to it. You save a lot of space and mess as compared to using the overly deep 18.5 water pan. Very fuel efficient. Makes the lower rack more use-able for cooking imo.
For brisket, I separate the point and flat. The thick fatty point can suck up a lot of heat, so that goes on the bottom rack. The lean flat that can dry out or get overdone goes on the top rack where it is further from the fire and where I can tend to it easier.
If you don't like the convection flow up the middle, just use some kind of soild diffuser. Or foil the FireDial to block the slots. That should make the bottom rack and the cooker center cooler than if the slots are open.
Avoid The Weber Smoker "Burn Zone" - The Virtual Weber Bullet
This article explains the "burn zone" in the Weber Smokey Mountain Cooker: Where it is, why it's there, and how you can avoid it.
www.virtualweberbullet.com
WSM Temperature Tests - The Virtual Weber Bullet
Temperature experiments conducted with the Weber Smokey Mountain Cooker, including empty pan, water in pan, and sand in pan. Charts and graphs included.
www.virtualweberbullet.com
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Jonas-Switzerland
TVWBB Fan
I had a look at the sundial again. At my first glance, it looked like the slots were not that deep. You are right. There surely is convective heating going on with all these large slots.
Jonas-Switzerland
TVWBB Fan
BTW: They all do, that's why we can use IR thermometers to measure their surface temp. The question is how hot is it getting, and does it produce any significant IR radiation to matter in a cook. Its not getting 500C ~900F, or the sundial would be glowing orange like the coals.
It would look cool though.
E: Its just a weird preoccupation of mine. I recently cooked something on a spit on a gas grill. I had an aluminium pan below it, and it did not brown. The last few minutes of the cook I removed the pan for a nice crust. I keep wondering, was this IR radiation from the "flavorizer bars", or did I brown it with a very hot air current from the burner below. It was not the ambient heat that did the browning, otherwise it would have browned with the pan below it as well. Could I measure this...
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Jim C in Denver
TVWBB All-Star
I think you mostly had an increase of convection heat energy when the blocking pan was removed. Direct convection versus indirect convection.
While there is some radiation that comes off the flav bars, gas grills cook primarily by convection. To get some radiation boost, some high end grills add an IR burner.
While there is some radiation that comes off the flav bars, gas grills cook primarily by convection. To get some radiation boost, some high end grills add an IR burner.
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EricV.
TVWBB Guru
Firedial
Anyone tried a firedial? https://bbqsmokermods.com/oem-smoker-mods-by-brand/weber-smokey-mountain-wsm/firedialtm-heat-diffuser-plate-for-weber-smokey-mountain-wsm-by.html#product_tabs_review_tabbed I'm thinking about ordering one. It looks like you leave out the waterpan,and it lets the grease...
tvwbb.com
Jim C in Denver
TVWBB All-Star
Its just a weird preoccupation of mine. I recently cooked something on a spit on a gas grill. I had an aluminium pan below it, and it did not brown. The last few minutes of the cook I removed the pan for a nice crust. I keep wondering, was this IR radiation from the "flavorizer bars", or did I brown it with a very hot air current from the burner below. Could I measure this...
This piece from MeatHead sent me down the rabbit hole of convection vs. radiation vs. conduction. It helped me understand how/why it isn't just about high or low temps. Especially helped my understanding between how different cookers work -- gassers, smokers, charcoal grills, griddles, pellets.
This piece from MeatHead sent me down the rabbit hole of convection vs. radiation vs. conduction. It helped me understand how/why it isn't just about high or low temps. Especially helped my understanding between how different cookers work -- gassers, smokers, charcoal grills, griddles, pellets.
The Thermodynamics of Cooking and How Different Cooking Methods Work
Learn about thermodynamics: the basis of all cooking! Find out how heat transference works by conduction, convection, radiation, induction, and infrared heat in your grill, bbq, and smoker.
amazingribs.com