jason molinari
TVWBB Fan
get it up and running and do it!
cure meat safely at home
- Thread starter Marc
- Start date
Dave from Denver
TVWBB Wizard
hehe, giddy up!
j biesinger
TVWBB Platinum Member
It seems like we are going around in circles on water activity. I have to conclude that the 30% and 35% reduction in mass that I've seen, do not mark any level of safety other than "safer." I will cease wondering about any safe level and will only consider mass loss as a function of texture.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Remember that the cooler the air, the less water is held at a certain RH.
So 55 deg. and 75% RH has more water in the air than 50 deg. and 75% RH. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
from what I've read, water content in air is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is the humidity.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Remember that the cooler the air, the less water is held at a certain RH.
So 55 deg. and 75% RH has more water in the air than 50 deg. and 75% RH. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
from what I've read, water content in air is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is the humidity.
Dave from Denver
TVWBB Wizard
A fitting introduction to use of my curing chamber, I came back from a 5 day vacation and my pancetta stresa was besieged by colonies of bad mold. I briefly considered wiping it again but the color and quantity of this mold was such that it went in the trash.
Too bad. Better than getting sick. On the other hand, my bresaola looks great, one is naked and the other is covered in beautiful chalky white mold. Crazy how that happened less than 10 inches away from the nasties on the pancetta. go figure.
Too bad. Better than getting sick. On the other hand, my bresaola looks great, one is naked and the other is covered in beautiful chalky white mold. Crazy how that happened less than 10 inches away from the nasties on the pancetta. go figure.
jason molinari
TVWBB Fan
strange...better safe than sorry though.
Dave from Denver
TVWBB Wizard
I naturally have a nagging suspicion that binning it was premature or unnecessary. Even Ruhlman (on the FAQ on his blog) says not to toss pancetta with questionable molds but instead to just wash it thoroughly and dry it and keep it since you'll be cooking it anyway.
It smelled ok and wasn't slimy but there were some very very dark green molds that were difficult to wipe off and which left dark spots on the meat after I wiped them off. There were also some black spots that were very unappetizing. They could've been black mold, I don't know. There was also a huge amount of fuzzy white mold blooms all over the whole thing, in between the more colorful colonies.
Anyway, I'd rather lose $7 of belly and some time than a couple days from work from food poisoning.
It smelled ok and wasn't slimy but there were some very very dark green molds that were difficult to wipe off and which left dark spots on the meat after I wiped them off. There were also some black spots that were very unappetizing. They could've been black mold, I don't know. There was also a huge amount of fuzzy white mold blooms all over the whole thing, in between the more colorful colonies.
Anyway, I'd rather lose $7 of belly and some time than a couple days from work from food poisoning.
Geir Widar
TVWBB Wizard
Better safe than sorry. Molds can leave unwanted chemicals in the meat, stuff that can not be brushed or washed away.
jason molinari
TVWBB Fan
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave from Denver:
I naturally have a nagging suspicion that binning it was premature or unnecessary. Even Ruhlman (on the FAQ on his blog) says not to toss pancetta with questionable molds but instead to just wash it thoroughly and dry it and keep it since you'll be cooking it anyway.
It smelled ok and wasn't slimy but there were some very very dark green molds that were difficult to wipe off and which left dark spots on the meat after I wiped them off. There were also some black spots that were very unappetizing. They could've been black mold, I don't know. There was also a huge amount of fuzzy white mold blooms all over the whole thing, in between the more colorful colonies.
Anyway, I'd rather lose $7 of belly and some time than a couple days from work from food poisoning. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's the same person who calls for 1.7% salt in his soppressata, which is well below the industry accepted safetly limit of 2.5-3% salt. I question his understanding or appreciation of food safety. And statements like "i've never gotten sick" or "they used to make this in caves" doesn't make it any more acceptable.
I naturally have a nagging suspicion that binning it was premature or unnecessary. Even Ruhlman (on the FAQ on his blog) says not to toss pancetta with questionable molds but instead to just wash it thoroughly and dry it and keep it since you'll be cooking it anyway.
It smelled ok and wasn't slimy but there were some very very dark green molds that were difficult to wipe off and which left dark spots on the meat after I wiped them off. There were also some black spots that were very unappetizing. They could've been black mold, I don't know. There was also a huge amount of fuzzy white mold blooms all over the whole thing, in between the more colorful colonies.
Anyway, I'd rather lose $7 of belly and some time than a couple days from work from food poisoning. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's the same person who calls for 1.7% salt in his soppressata, which is well below the industry accepted safetly limit of 2.5-3% salt. I question his understanding or appreciation of food safety. And statements like "i've never gotten sick" or "they used to make this in caves" doesn't make it any more acceptable.
j biesinger
TVWBB Platinum Member
In my short curing history, I've seen some crazy mold.
read about some here and here
a wash with 50/50 vinegar and water usually kills off the nasty stuff. And it seems like if you can get through the initial bloom when things are most moist, it won't come back.
Worse case, I cut away all the outside.
read about some here and here
a wash with 50/50 vinegar and water usually kills off the nasty stuff. And it seems like if you can get through the initial bloom when things are most moist, it won't come back.
Worse case, I cut away all the outside.
Dave from Denver
TVWBB Wizard
Like I said upthread I had some bad problems with the initial bloom. I wiped it probably three times total before deciding to chuck it; the mold kept returning stronger and stronger. Not the best thing but I'm going to have to live with it.
j biesinger
TVWBB Platinum Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Like I said upthread I had some bad problems with the initial bloom. I wiped it probably three times total before deciding to chuck it; the mold kept returning stronger and stronger. Not the best thing but I'm going to have to live with it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I should mention that when the furry stuff developed on the bresaola, I wiped it down AND took it out of the enclosed space, which reduced ambient RH and increased air flow.
I should mention that when the furry stuff developed on the bresaola, I wiped it down AND took it out of the enclosed space, which reduced ambient RH and increased air flow.
Dave from Denver
TVWBB Wizard
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave from Denver:
Do you guys think 47-50F/8-10C is warm enough to air-dry salumi? My wine cooler runs humidity constant at 70% at those temperatures, but it's about 10 degrees F cooler than the 60F I see recommended as optimal.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
So no doubt this hobby is not as easy as it seems, and of course I couldn't be the only lucky person in the world with a perfect setup out of the box.
I checked some other locations in my box and closer to the cooling element and the floor the conditions are more like 42F/80%RH, which might explain why my salami are taking so dang long to dry.
I'm going to rig a fan/PVC pipe setup and probably a temperature controller too, to even out the temperature in there and raise it to the 65F level that it should be at, anyway.
Do you guys think 47-50F/8-10C is warm enough to air-dry salumi? My wine cooler runs humidity constant at 70% at those temperatures, but it's about 10 degrees F cooler than the 60F I see recommended as optimal.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
So no doubt this hobby is not as easy as it seems, and of course I couldn't be the only lucky person in the world with a perfect setup out of the box.
I checked some other locations in my box and closer to the cooling element and the floor the conditions are more like 42F/80%RH, which might explain why my salami are taking so dang long to dry.
I'm going to rig a fan/PVC pipe setup and probably a temperature controller too, to even out the temperature in there and raise it to the 65F level that it should be at, anyway.
Dave from Denver
TVWBB Wizard
So I got a Johnson Controls temperature controller and got my curing fridge wired to it.
Not only is it now running a steady 63-65 degrees but the humidity is up to nominal levels too.
So... if you have a chamber that runs too cold and too dry, getting it warmed up will stop the cooler from condensing water from the air and it will be more humid too.
just patting myself on the back, nothing else to see here.
Not only is it now running a steady 63-65 degrees but the humidity is up to nominal levels too.
So... if you have a chamber that runs too cold and too dry, getting it warmed up will stop the cooler from condensing water from the air and it will be more humid too.
just patting myself on the back, nothing else to see here.