Converting a brine to an injection


 
M

Marty M.

TVWBB Member
Hello,

I've been brining my Boston butts for years, but I'm planning on entering a competition this fall and they don't allow brining. They do, however, allow injections.

How do I take the brine I've been using and convert it into an injection? I've never injected anything. Should I mix the brine per the normal recipe and just inject it? How do I inject something? Will I get the same results as a brine?

Thanks for your help. There's a lot of great information on this site.
 
How you convert it would depend on what's in it, specifically the water-to-salt and the water-to-sugar ratios.

You'll need to buy an injector.

Whether the injection will 'work' like your brine depends on what you think your brine does. I find neither necessary for butt in terms of moisture or flavor. Moisture is already there (if not overcooked - and it can be added during pulling easily enough. Flavor is easily (and, imo, better) added during pulling as well.

Regardless, whether you have to modify your brine depends on the ratios noted.

Welcome to the board.
 
I've read or heard lots of comp cooks remark how injecting is a must, but I tend to agree with Kevin that an inject doesn't really add much that can't be added at the end with a sauce.

That's not to say I haven't tried injecting. The Chris Lilly world championship inject is a good place to start, and I've injected a basic brine of water, salt and sugar and it was fine.

My pork scores have improved slightly since I started injecting but I've changed other parts of my protocol too, so I can't say how much injecting helps.
 
Thanks for your reply Kevin.

My brine has apple juice in it rather than water and I chop my pork rather than pull it. How would I add this to the pork once it's chopped since the pieces will be bigger than they would if it was pulled?

Also, the ratio is about 8 parts water or juice:1 part salt:1 part sugar.

Do you have any tips on how to inject?

Thanks.
 
Yeah, j, I think many glom onto this notion or that (because this one one that one does this or that and they win) without understanding what is going on. Many 'masters' do not understand it either. I'd argue that Lilly's injecting his pork was not the secret to his wins, it was what the injection did - and, no, 'moisture' has nothing to do with it. Regardless, anything you can do with an injection prior to cooking you can do after cooking (and thus I don't bother), provided the meat will be pulled, chopped, or sliced thinly, and provided it is correctly cooked. Nothing wrong with injecting though - or brining - and both can offer some leeway in terms of finish, i.e., both can widen the 'done' window. Anyway...

Marty- Brines are not suitable for adding to the meat after cooking, nor are most injections. For that you need a finishing sauce The one I use is here. I like it because it works well to even out texture and flavor, and it goes well with whatever sauce I will be serving with the pork; others like other types of finishing sauces. The operative variables are that it is relatively thin so that it distributes well, yet relatively viscous (via emulsification or an added thickener/stabilizer) so that it clings well. Imo, it is a good idea if its color reads as fairly neutral once on the meat.

Your ratio would be fine. You could even up the salt if you wish.

One simply injects evenly all over the butt(s), starting with the needle totally plunged into the flesh, and injecting the solution as the needle is drawn out. Many cooks like to wrap their roasts in plastic first and plunge the needle through the plastic. Bit less potentially messy this way.

If you go to the Pork Recipes section toward the bottom of the main Forum page and click there, then scroll down on the next page, you will find Chris Lilly's injection listed. Try it, try your own, see what you think.

(Btw, I pull and chop at the same time when I do butts. The meat comes out as a combination of the two, mixed together, but the strands of the pulled portion are quite short. Never much cared for the texture or appearance of straight pulled pork.)

Experiment and have fun with it.
 
Kevin,

What did his injections do if they didn't help with moisture levels?

How far apart should I inject?

How do you add your finishing sauce to the pork: by squirting it on with a mustard-style bottle then tossing by hand? Would it be OK if I just mixed up by brine and squirted it on after I chop it?

Does a finishing sauce ruin the texture of the bark?

I think I'm going to test three pork butts side-by-side and see what I like best: the first with no brine and no finishing sauce, the second with my brine, the third with no brine and a finishing sauce.

I'm just concerned the finishing sauce will throw off the flavor and texture of the pork once I add the actual barbecue sauce (I use a South Carolina sauce with my chopped pork). Will the finishing sauce make the finished product too soupy? Also, will it throw off the flavor of just the pork and barbecue sauce?
 
Butts do not need help with moisture levels. Any mildly competent cook can turn out (or turn in, as the case is) a moist pile of pork. There is a lot of leeway already, though, as noted, injecting widens this further. Besides, it is a) simply too easy to manipulate moisture post cook, and b) virtually impossible for anyone to tell whether the moistness one is feeling in the mouth is from pre-cook prep, post cook attention, or neither of the above. What Lilly's (and most other comp injections) do is add flavor and, in this case, a ton of sugar. This, of course, conforms to the rather narrow taste preference of comp barbecue. This is also easily done after cooking but I think many don't see the possibilities there, for one, and/or think that injecting in the only way - they see so many others do it, or simply find injecting an easy way to approach the issue. And that it is. Nothing wrong with injecting if one prefers.

Inject wide apart at first, all over, evenly, then inject evenly between the spots you've already injected, then repeat that again, if needed. This affords evenness throughout.

I mix the finisher in a bottle then simply add splashes as I put the pulled/chopped pork in a bowl, periodically tossing it well. I would not add plain flavor-brine to the pork. Imo, it needs some fat and some emulsification first.

Yes, finishers can ruin bark texture if contact is prolonged. Before I pull pork I remove the bark - with some meat attached - in little 'nuggets'; the best nuggests I put to the side while I deal with the rest of the pork. The others I chop to mix into the pork so that the bark flavor gets mixed through. I simply dab the meat portion of the bard nuggets I've saved with finisher, leaving the bark itself alone.

Do the experiment.

A finishing sauce, imo, improves texture and flavor because it evens it out. As long as the 'good' bark isn't stirred into the pile one also has nice, bark-y bark for serving. I do not use much finishing sauce (not much is needed). It is possible you might want to tweak the flavor profile of the finishing sauce (mine or your own or another's) to complement your sauce, depending on your sauce ingredients. Mine, imo, complements well many types of sauces. Not enough finisher should be used to make the PP anywhere close to 'soupy' - and not so much sauce should be used to do that either - or one is simply drowning all one's hard work.

(Another finishing sauce to try would be 1 part of your barbecue sauce, 1 part chicken stock, and 1 part melted butter. Blend well to emulsify it - then use just enough, as I do mine, to moisten the meat, no more.)
 
To add to the good stuff Kevin provides:

When you are testing out protocols for comp pork, taste the different muscles and notice their color differences. The darker meat will be much moister than the lighter stuff. I never really paid much attention to what I was throwing in the box, but now I do.

Search around for info on the "money muscle." I wouldn't suggest focusing on, as is the current fad, but do know where it is because it will lead you to prime meat to turn in.

Also you may want to troll the "comp" section of this forum and others. You'll learn a ton.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">When you are testing out protocols for comp pork, taste the different muscles and notice their color differences. The darker meat will be much moister than the lighter stuff. I never really paid much attention to what I was throwing in the box, but now I do. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
True, true. (Or get a nicely marbled Berk butt...)
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">(Or get a nicely marbled Berk butt...) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

working on it, but probably keep it for meself
icon_wink.gif


2 cheap ones yield enough dark meat and prime bark for a turn-in box.

along the berks lines though, I've heard whisperings that heritage breeds don't play well with the judges because they tend to be strong flavored (or HAVE flavor for that matter, and it is a sauce contest after all).
 
Thanks for all your advice Kevin and j biesinger.

I'll test several different methods (maybe this weekend) and let you know what I think.

Thanks again. I really appreciate you guys' advice.

By the way, are any of you competing this year?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I've heard whisperings that heritage breeds don't play well with the judges because they tend to be strong flavored (or HAVE flavor for that matter, and it is a sauce contest after all). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That would be unfortunate - but, unfortunately, not surprising.

However, a (possible) way around it: a Duroc or Duroc cross.
 
Marty-

j competes. I do not. I cook professionally hither and yon around the country. (In Amarillo as I type, just did a gig in Calif and am on my way back to Okla - cooking in Conn this weekend). I have assisted and do assist many individual competitors and teams with approaches, techniques, rubs, sauces, and so forth. I enjoy Q comps (even if comp Q is not my thing - too sweet for me!); the camaraderie and energy are infectious. But I have never competed.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">By the way, are any of you competing this year? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

we aren't traveling this year (not that we really travel all that far anyways), just doing the two local KCBS comps at the end of June and the end of September.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> However, a (possible) way around it: a Duroc or Duroc cross.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

its funny you should mention it because I do know a guy that raises duroc crosses. I really liked his chops, however I got the feeling that he slaughters all his pigs in the fall which is bad timing since most comps are in the summer.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
Marty-

j competes. I do not. I cook professionally hither and yon around the country. (In Amarillo as I type, just did a gig in Calif and am on my way back to Okla - cooking in Conn this weekend). I have assisted and do assist many individual competitors and teams with approaches, techniques, rubs, sauces, and so forth. I enjoy Q comps (even if comp Q is not my thing - too sweet for me!); the camaraderie and energy are infectious. But I have never competed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you ever come to Georgia?
 
Yup. On the way into and out of Fla, of course. And I have cooked several times a year for many years on an estate southwest of Atlants - and a couple other occasional spots.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
Yup. On the way into and out of Fla, of course. And I have cooked several times a year for many years on an estate southwest of Atlants - and a couple other occasional spots. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm planning on competing in the Coweta Up in Smoke competition in Newnan, GA this mid-October. It's part of the FBA. If, for some funny reason, you're in the neighborhood I sure would love to have your input and expertise.
 
I cook not too far from Newnan - the other side of Peachtree City, actually. Remind me when it gets near. I could well be around as I am often there in Oct.
 
Wow. I actually live in that area. By "the other side of Peachtree City", do you mean east Peachtree City or Fayetteville or Senoia?

Is there a way to send a private message on this board?
 
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