Brisket questions


 
C

Calle

New member
I'm going to try cooking my second brisket - the first one didn't turn out at all, but a number of things went wrong in the process (heavy rain, wind, sand in the waterpan instead of water, etc). This time I want to do it right so I'm not gonna experiment or wing it too much. I have a few questions though.

1) The meat is supposed to be 165F when it's done. I want to have it ready around dinner time, so somewhere around 4-6pm give or take. Some places on the net say to calculate 1.5 - 2 hours per pound at 220F, while Paul Kirk says 45 mins to an hour per pound at 230-250F. "Barbecue'n on the Net" says that any brisket cooked for 8-10 hours at 225F is done. For a 10lb brisket, that creates a huge window and I'd like it to be a little more predictable. How long should I expect it to cook for if the temp is about 230F? I guess I'm basically asking if I should make it an overnighter or a 6am type of thing.

2) Some say not to trim off any fat, some say leave 1/8" or so. I would think that since the bullet is a water smoker, the steam would keep the meat moist and less fat is needed to "self-baste" it. I also think it's a bit of a waste to put rub on fat that will either get trimmed off in the end or melt and take the rub with it... But I could be wrong. What do you recommend?

3) I'm in south western Ontario, Canada, and I've never been anywhere that serves brisket or met anyone that cooks it. What do I serve it with? Slices on a bun with saus and coleslaw on top? Just plain old slices with a sauce and potatoes? Slices with baked beans and slaw on the side?

Thanks for any replies,

-- Calle
 
1) If you take the meat off at 165 it is going to chew like shoe leather. Brisket needs to get up to around 190 (give or take a bit) to be edible in most people's opinion.

2) I only trim the really thick parts of the fat cap, down to 1/4-1/2" or so.

3) If I did a good job, no sauce. If it's a little dry, I use some BBQ sauce. As for sides, all your ideas sound good to me!
 
1. Don't shoot for temperature with brisket (and 165 is waaayyyyy low). Start checking your brisket at 180. A fork should slide easily in and out (like butter). If you need to got by temps, 188-190 is when folks say this happens, but your mileage may vary.

2. If we could get time close in BBQ, we'd have nothing to do. I've done 10 pounders in anywhere from 10-18 hours. Again, you mileage will vary. It may help if you foil at 160. That'll cut down on your cooking time a bit. Just remember to take it out before it becomes pot roast.

3. Slaw on top is more of a pork thing - I'd keep it on the side. German potato salad, baked beans, etc., will get you where you want to be.
 
I am not a brisket expert by any means but I have done several that turned out really well.

I start mine around midnight or so for a 3 - 5 eat time. At 140 I wrap in foil and finish cooking wrapped up to 160 - 165. I will pull it out and let it rest wrapped up in the foil in a cooler for at least 2 hours that really helps finish cooking and the moisture will work itself back in the meat. It will keep warm wrapped up in a cooler for 3 -4 hours if it gets done to early. I do trim most of the fat off and apply a rub several hours before starting and chill in the fridge. I also use sand in my WSM for all cooks as the water does nothing for keeping any moisture in the meat. The water or sand is just a heat sink to control temps in the WSM.

Usually my first meal includes slices with any side dishes you like beans, slaw etc are all good. To me the next day is better for sandwiches assuming you have any left over. You are on the right track with your meal, either way is really good.

Randy
 
Sounds like I am wrong again. I have never taken a brisket to 190 or so, but to me it is still pretty good, maybe a bit chewy but not bad for my taste. I am sure it cooks a bit higher temp holding it wrapped but I have never checked the temp when sliced. Thanks guys I will try that next time.

Randy
 
Thanks guys. I'll do the overnight thing then, and if it's done too early then I'll just wrap it and pack it in a cooler.

From what I've seen on competition barbecue shows on TV, a brisket should be thinly sliced, but come apart with very slight resistance when it's gently pulled. I guess that's what happens around 180 or so then
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I realize that the water pan's main function is for temperature control, but given that it's pretty hot in there and the fact that the water disappears, there must be steam created and I would imagine that the steam would "baste" the meat at least somewhat (I'm not saying it acts like a rice cooker or anything). The steam escapes from the top vent, sure, but I would imagine that some of it gets on the meat... Anyway, I digress - it just seems logical, but I've been known to be very wrong on more than one occasion.

I'll pass on the side dish and serving advice to the wife who takes care of that bit. I cook meat and sauce, that's where it ends.
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Thanks again.

-- Calle.
 
Calle,

My last packer (around 12 lb) took 13 hours cooked at approx 225 grate/240 lid.

My last 4.5 lb flat took 9 hours, cooked at same temps.

Really, it depends on the size of cut and temps cooked at.

I take mine off when the fork or thermapen slides in like soft butter. Usually, this happens around mid/upper 180's. Sometimes not though.

Bottom line, IMHO, is the rendering process takes 8+ hours cooked at 225 grate even for a small flat cut, and a little longer for a bigger cut.

I figure on a window of approx 1.5 hours total cook and rest time for a full packer. Usually they are done a bit sooner. ( I am cooking a 12 lb packer sunday, and will plan on 16 hours lead time for dinner).

Others will have different opinions on this.

Good luck.
 
Calle, we've done many briskets over the years, and it is a rather temperamental cut of meat. I cook packer-cut brisket almost exclusively - I try to get something around 12 lb, with the smallest possible hard-fat kernel on the side, and thickest flat possible. I trim off the hard fat kernels and into the fat layer between the flat and point, keeping that fat in as large pieces as possible. I then lay those fat scraps down on the ends of the rack as cushioning unde the ends of my brisket to protect the ends of the brisket from the higher heat that comes up around the waterpan.

I almost always do all-night cooks, fat side down, putting them on about 8 or 9 pm, using about half charcoal and half lump via Minion at about 250 in the lid, and they're typically done in just about 11-12 hours. I don't foil briskets at all during cooking unless I have to speed up the cooking session for some reason.

You mentioned the 165 temp - true, beef is "done" at that temp, but in cooking brisket and pork shoulder, one has to cook it "through" doneness. At 160, the connective tissue inside these tough ol' cow chests begins to melt and turn into liquid gelatin, and the long slow process of melting that connective tissue is what turns said tough ol' cow chest into a tender succulent morsel. That's why we will hit a temperature plateau in these meats in the 160-range - you're getting a melting/evaporating effect happening within the meat which causes the temp to rise and fall as moisture levels increase and then evaporate. There is a balancing point, though, where the evaporation of the released gelatin and juices outpaces any further rendering of fat or connectives, and that's when you start drying out your brisket. (Kevin, Doug, or one of the other gurus can speak more to the science of this, I'm sure - probably several posts on the subject in the past.) 188 is my own adopted set-point. If most areas of the flat are about 188 (I don't even test temp on the point), AND it's somewhat hard to distinguish whether a temp probe going into the flat is going into lean meat or fat, AND ESPECIALLY if I can poke at the brisket and it does a waba-waba slow-jiggle kind of motion, that puppy is done. Get it out, wrap it in two layers of foil fat side up, and let it rest for a few hours. Technically, we try to slice it to about the thickness of a pencil.

Whew. Didn't mean to get so carried away there - can you tell that I like cookin' briskets?
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Like eatin' 'em, too - slaw on the side, potato salad or some other hot potato dish like an au gratin, maybe some good corn on the cob, a plate of sliced onions and peppers maybe. Southern Living Magazine has a marinated vegetable salad that's sweet/tart that goes great with the flavor of barbecue - I'll try to find that recipe and post it over on the side dishes board.

If you'll hit the COOKING link above and look for the Midnight Brisket cook that Chris Allingham wrote up, you'll have an excellent guide to cooking these wee beasties.

Keri C, still smokin' on Tulsa Time
 
I have only made 5 or so packer briskets and must say the last two cooks turned out excellent (2 each cook).
One thing that confuses me is how to measure the temperature. When you say most parts of the flat are 188 degrees, does that mean those parts not covered by the point? Last cook I did (fat side up) the exposed thinner part of the flat was near 200 and the part under the point was about in the mid/high 170's when I checked in the morning. Does that seem normal and if so, should I have pulled it earlier? The brisket was very moist and tender (I slice mine with point attached so you get wide slices with both parts connected on one end, the extra fat seems to help when you reheat vac sealed packages) though the first few slices of the flat were dry on the exposed end.
Jamie
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Does that seem normal and if so, should I have pulled it earlier? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>It does for brisket cooked fat up. Pull earlier? Not if it worked for you. As you temp your briskets be sensitive to how they feel. I only temp in one spot; I don't like poking all over and variations in temp throws too much focus on the temp.
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Weight alone doesn't have a lot to do with cook time. Thickness is the big deal--combined with overall size--and amount of internal fat/connective tissue (i.e., grade). This combined with cook temp is what affects cook time, as Craig notes.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I guess that's what happens around 180 or so then </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Not really. This happens when this particular doneness level is reached which doesn't relate in a clear fashion to temp. It relates to time spent rendering and how much rendering a) was possible and b) occurred.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> there must be steam created and I would imagine that the steam would "baste" the meat at least somewhat (I'm not saying it acts like a rice cooker or anything). The steam escapes from the top vent, sure, but I would imagine that some of it gets on the meat </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes, it does, and it evaporates right off the meat. This reduces evaporative pressure, so to speak, and can have an effect on bark texture.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I figure on a window of approx 1.5 hours total cook and rest time for a full packer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>So do I.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Some say not to trim off any fat, some say leave 1/8" or so. I would think that since the bullet is a water smoker, the steam would keep the meat moist and less fat is needed to "self-baste" it. I also think it's a bit of a waste to put rub on fat that will either get trimmed off in the end or melt and take the rub with it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Trim, or not, as you wish. You can trim after cooking or even after slicing. Hard fat does not render and baste the meat. The fatcap, left alone or trimmed to a particular thinness, can provide a buffer against the heat (which is why many cook fat down, especially on a vertical cooker). If you plan on removing the fat for serving then applying rub to it probably wastes rub. If you plan to leave a thin layer of fat on the slices--as many do which is one reason they trim ahead of time--then the rub flavors the fat.
 
You need to be at least 180+ to be done,
what you should do is try sticking the thermometer in from the side around 175 and learn to get the feel when it starts to get tender.

Better to finish early even a few hours, I find it has a better texture when properly wrapped and rested.

Like you I have never had brisket except what I have made myself but I have had many people including Texans who have sampled and approved of my fare.

Nice to hear from someone in Waterloo, I went to UW a while back.
 
It's very difficult to peg a certain amount of time per pound, as what really matters is the thickness in the flat. A thick 8 pounder can take longer than a thin 12 pounder. I usually go to about 185-187 on a Polder in the thickest part of the flat if I am going to rely on temp alone. Remember that it's actually rather difficult to overcook a brisket, but easy to undercook one.

The Official side dishes are: Beans, slices of white bread, pickle slices, sliced raw onions, slaw/potato salad/macaroni salad/macaroni and cheese.

Drinks: Lone Star, Shiner Bock, Dr. Pepper, Big Red, IBC Root Beer.
 
Or, tonight's dinner: Sliced brisket with a tangle of crisp julienned potato, green pea-green peppercorn puree, carrot steamed with onion, horseradish crème fraîche and roasted garlic and onion jam-jus. Brisket dresses up nicely.
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Thanks again all. What happened on the weekend was that I went to the butcher to pick it up (you have to pre-order briskets here), they weighed it in at around 8lbs, but I discovered that absolutely all fat had been trimmed off. It's a good butcher, but he said nobody wants the fat anymore, so I always have to specify that I don't want the fat trimmed off. Luckily he took the meat back, and what I paid will go towards the next one that I'll get on Friday for another attempt.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
Or, tonight's dinner: Sliced brisket with a tangle of crisp julienned potato, green pea-green peppercorn puree, carrot steamed with onion, horseradish crème fraîche and roasted garlic and onion jam-jus. Brisket dresses up nicely.
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</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A friendly word of advice - don't dress up brisket like that at a Texas BBQ. They'll laugh
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Well, actually, no they won't--not the people I cook for there near you (Bastrop, Austin and Fredericksburg) or up in DFW. There are, fortunately, plenty adventurous and/or sophisticated diners in Texas (there are some terrific restaurants in your area) that enjoy 'uptown' barbecue as much or more than 'down home' barbecue. Brisket and beans are everywhere; brisket as the center of a more upscale service is harder to find. People pay well for that and I am happy to oblige them.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
Well, actually, no they won't--not the people I cook for there near you (Bastrop, Austin and Fredericksburg) or up in DFW. There are, fortunately, plenty adventurous and/or sophisticated diners in Texas (there are some terrific restaurants in your area) that enjoy 'uptown' barbecue as much or more than 'down home' barbecue. Brisket and beans are everywhere; brisket as the center of a more upscale service is harder to find. People pay well for that and I am happy to oblige them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think I would be busy to laugh, looks good.
 
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