Brisket Problems


 
M

Mike Rabbita

New member
I have a 22" WSM and for the life of me I can't get a brisket to turn out tender. I went by time and temperature...failed. Today, I went by "probe until it goes in like a knife through butter" or muffing or whatever. I started checking it at 190. Every 45 minutes or so, I'd probe it again. This brisket was a CAB choice by the way. I injected it and let it sit overnight.
Temps were locked on 250 by a Pitmaster. I also had a Maverick probe in it for the fun of it. My "poking probe" was still meeting resistance when the temperature probe said the flat was 212 degrees. It never got tender.
I took it off an hoped for the best and got the worst. We've done a couple of competitions and brisket always comes out tough. I cook it about 5 hours...around 170 internal...foil it, and start probing around 190. You know the rest of the story.
I'm tempted to try a hot and fast and then just a brisket with no foiling step. If you can see a flaw in my procedure, please let me know. Oh yeah, foiled water pan with no water in it.
 
I'd practice with some hot and fast. The brisket will progress faster and change towards tender will be more obvious. I say practice because chances are you will over shoot tender during the rest.
 
Once you foil it, forget about getting a accurate internal temp for tenderness. U want to cook it about 2/3 the time u cooked it out of the foil if u keep the same temps. Shoulda took about 3-4 more hours in foil. Then rest in the foil for a hour or more. After the 3-4 hours I'd check for tender.

I go h n f. 325-375 3 hours then 1.5 hours in foil always tender. Throw the brisket on cold and I get a nice smoke ring.
 
My comp briskets typically take anywhere from 12-14 hours, and they always turn out great. I'll typically go low temps for a long time (205-215) for several hours, then bump to about 235 and cook until the brisket reaches 165-ish. This is right before fat and collagen will begin to melt and the longer it spends in this range BEFORE reaching your finish temp the more tender it will be. At 165 I wrap and continue the cook until I hit about 195-200ish (I go by feel at this point), and then I remove from the heat and place it in a food pan in a Cambro for a couple of hours fat-side up.

That always nets me a tender brisket. Just remember you can't necessarily go only by a specific time, because briskets are different sizes, thicknesses, muscle density, fat marbling, etc.
 
I've seen that same thing with a Maverick probe at home. Meat read something crazy above 210F, but wasn't probe tender. Funny thing was, I pulled the probe out and stuck it in a different spot, got a reading of like 201, it never climbed above 204 for several more hours when it was actually done (L&S cook, about 230-240).
 
Are you slicing against the grain? If you don't it'll be tough and rubbery every time. I go hot an fast for about 5 hours at 325. They turn out great.
 
Dave Alvarado said:
I've seen that same thing with a Maverick probe at home. Meat read something crazy above 210F, but wasn't probe tender. Funny thing was, I pulled the probe out and stuck it in a different spot, got a reading of like 201, it never climbed above 204 for several more hours when it was actually done (L&S cook, about 230-240).
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That is a good possibility. I may try again and ignore the Maverick totally. When I saw 212, I just knew it was over done. Thanks for the tip.
MH Brown, yes, I sliced against the grain. The real problem was that it was never "probe tender". I kept waiting for a knife through butter or muffin effect and never got it.
 
Mike Rabbita said:
That is a good possibility. I may try again and ignore the Maverick totally. When I saw 212, I just knew it was over done. Thanks for the tip.
MH Brown, yes, I sliced against the grain. The real problem was that it was never "probe tender". I kept waiting for a knife through butter or muffin effect and never got it.
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How long did you let it rest before you sliced it? What was the IT when you sliced it? What we've done as a new team and as assistants to other teams is let the meat cool down to about ~175º IT and then sliced it or put it in a Cambro and maintained that ~175º IT. Once, when we used a cheap cooler to hold our brisket, the brisket cooled down too much (~150º) and the meat kind of tightened up on us and squeezed out a lot of those juices out. It felt tough and we knew it would score poorly. Perhaps this happened to you?

Whenever we've overcooked a brisket, it definitely was probe tender...too tender. It crumbled when we sliced it.
 
It rested for about 2 hours in a Cambro. I don't know what the internal temps were when I sliced it. I did let it breathe and let most of the steam/heat out before I put it in the Cambro. I'd say about 20 minutes of letting heat escape. I'll monitor the IT next time.
 
Sounds like you got the right idea, cook it, pull when probe tender, let it vent, then rest it in a cambro. The 1st thing that comes to mind is that you need to find a well marbled brisket. CAB doesn't mean much, I 've done them before with mixed results. I also think foiling changes the texture somewhat (besides the bark) try using non-wax coated butcher paper. Wrap when the color looks good. Also try setting your IQ to 275*, fat renders better at this temp. Don't give up, you got this!
 
As pointed out earlier, temp reading in foil are not a true reading if comparing to a non foiled. The steam plays a factor here

If you vent it for a min or so, you should see the temp reading drop
 
Jeff R said:
As pointed out earlier, temp reading in foil are not a true reading if comparing to a non foiled. The steam plays a factor here

If you vent it for a min or so, you should see the temp reading drop
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I didn't know this. Maybe this is why my most recent comp brisket temped at 202 but was still chewy in the point
 
Mike Rabbita said:
It rested for about 2 hours in a Cambro. I don't know what the internal temps were when I sliced it. I did let it breathe and let most of the steam/heat out before I put it in the Cambro. I'd say about 20 minutes of letting heat escape. I'll monitor the IT next time.
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If you're going to rest a couple hours in something as efficient as a Cambro, you might try pulling your brisket a little early. If I'm at a comp I pull mine in the low 190s once it has a certain tenderness I like, but not EXACTLY. I'll then put it in a Cambro wrapped up in brown butcher paper, and leave it about an hour to two, worst-case. It comes out great, typically. I'll say this, I've never had a brisket that I've let go above about 204 turn out very good. I'll always err for just a slightly tougher pull over falling apart crumbly and dry, which will happen most of the time with high temps. It's just not necessary of you're doing low and slow. On a high heat cook, this doesn't apply.
 
So what is the advantage of brown butcher paper? I'm starting to see that more and more when it comes to wrapping to hold. Is that some sort of advantage over foil?
 
Ryan Taylor said:
So what is the advantage of brown butcher paper? I'm starting to see that more and more when it comes to wrapping to hold. Is that some sort of advantage over foil?
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It's primarily a Texas thing, but I think it's catching on elsewhere. One of the things most paper wrappers don't like about foil (myself, included) is that there is no ability for the steam to vent and the meat to breathe, so it sort of steams and turns to mush. We like our beef, pulled pork, etc, to have a bit of texture to it, rather than complete disintegration. Case in point, I typically always paper briskets and pork butts, but two weekends ago I used some foil because it was sitting right next to me in the kitchen. I got the butt to temp and took it off, let it hang out in the Cambro, and when I unwrapped it 45 minutes later, it shook like jello. I know some like it like this, but I hate it, because it literally just imploded. That never happens when I use butcher paper.

Just my experience, I know that there are plenty of others who have great success using foil. The best part about the foil is that it catches evvvvvvverything. Lots goodness. I just am unwilling to trade texture, and will hand make a liquid to mix in...
 
Randy W said:
Just my experience, I know that there are plenty of others who have great success using foil. The best part about the foil is that it catches evvvvvvverything. Lots goodness. I just am unwilling to trade texture, and will hand make a liquid to mix in...
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This is my only problem with using butcher paper. I've tried making my own brisket au jus, but I can't find a mix that's close enough to the real thing. For comps, I'm thinking of cooking a brisket point along with my regular brisket. I'll wrap the point and use those juices.
 
Just a thought, how much marbling do you have?
It is recommended that Waygu briskets be pulled around 185 for optimum tenderness due to the extensive marbling. In my limited experience, they got tougher going up from 190° IT but pulled at 185 and rested it was nice and tender. Maybe your CAB is doing the same?
 
Randy W said:
My comp briskets typically take anywhere from 12-14 hours, and they always turn out great. I'll typically go low temps for a long time (205-215) for several hours, then bump to about 235 and cook until the brisket reaches 165-ish. This is right before fat and collagen will begin to melt and the longer it spends in this range BEFORE reaching your finish temp the more tender it will be. At 165 I wrap and continue the cook until I hit about 195-200ish (I go by feel at this point), and then I remove from the heat and place it in a food pan in a Cambro for a couple of hours fat-side up.

That always nets me a tender brisket. Just remember you can't necessarily go only by a specific time, because briskets are different sizes, thicknesses, muscle density, fat marbling, etc.
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Randy, when you say "go low temps for a long time (205-215) for several hours". How long are you talkin here before bumping it to 235*?
 
Ryan Taylor said:
I didn't know this. Maybe this is why my most recent comp brisket temped at 202 but was still chewy in the point
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The point is going to take longer to cook than the flat because of all the fat that needs to render. You can trim off the fat entirely from the bottom of the point and it will cook at a faster rate due to the fat cap below missing and not shielding it from the heat. If you don't want to do that then just cook the point longer. What you do is separate the point from the flat once the flat is probe tender and ready. I usually do this after I have let the brisket vent for ~10 min. I then separate the two and rewrap the flat tightly and place it in a Cambro. Then I season the part of the point that was cut away from the flat and place it back on the smoker for ~1 hr. After an hour I cube the point, place the cubes in a covered foil pan with some sauce (whatever you like...I use Stubbs) and put it back on the smoker for another hour. They're usually done (fat nicely rendered from the cubes) right after pork turn-in so I can get them out and into our box for brisket turn-in.

However, if the my burnt ends aren't as good as or better than my slices, I don't use them. This is true the other way around. If the slices are not nearly as good as some excellent burnt ends then I'll forego using the slices and use only burnt ends (done it about 3 times this year).
 
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