Brisket low and slow questions


 
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david brociner

TVWBB Member
There is so much talk here about doing HH method for brisket that I wanted to ask a few questions about cooking one low and slow. Should I still foil at 165 and let cook until tender or should I simply take it un-foiled to 185 and then foil it off the cooker to rest? Also, fat side up or fat side down? Thanks for the help.
 
You'll never get a consensus on fat up or down. Try it both ways and see what you like.

Try foiling 2/3 way through cook (estimate time by weight). Then it depends on whether you cook in a marinate or sauce in the foil or not. If not, I would throw back on to firm up bark and check for tenderness. Hard to probe through foil. That's why cooking in a foil pan is a possibility. Put pan under brisket for 4 hours while cooking to catch juices, then put in pan for rest of cook with whatever sauce remains from the injection along with a can of beef broth.

Many ways to do it. Try them all till you find your favorite.

FWIW, I never cook HH. I can do that in the kitchen. Low and slow everytime.
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Have done fat up in the past with good results but will try fat side down for this cook. In the past I have not foiled until taking off the WSM but am curious about this because it seems everyone else is foiling during the cook. I've never added beef broth and never had a problem with dryness. I don't inject either. Isn't the idea of low and slow to break down the connective tissue and render the fat leaving the meat moist and tender?
 
I trim my briskets pretty close to the meat and the last two including todays cook, I have separated the point from the flat before the cook. Less fat gives you a better smoke ring. Meathead says foil at 150, which I did today, 1st time as I usually foil around the 165. I cooked HH and did 9 lbs in just over 3 hours and finished at 205. The flat is in the cooler and the point is being dedicated the burnt ends as I write this. Foiling this early ruined my bark. The flat was still really juicy...no water pan just a foiled clay saucer. I put the flat back on to try and restore the bark but it was too wet so I moped it off with apple cider and apple juice.

This is the 2nd HH brisket I've cooked. I installed a 2nd dome vent and I had the grill temp up to 390 and could have gone higher. I have plenty of flavour, moisture and tenderness this time, just no bark. Smoked with pecan. I like it as it is not so strong.
 
Originally posted by david brociner:
Have done fat up in the past with good results but will try fat side down for this cook. In the past I have not foiled until taking off the WSM but am curious about this because it seems everyone else is foiling during the cook. I've never added beef broth and never had a problem with dryness. I don't inject either. Isn't the idea of low and slow to break down the connective tissue and render the fat leaving the meat moist and tender?
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As moist and tender as a big muscle can be. All I can tell you about injecting and foiling is that just about every team in comp will do so. Foiling really makes it tender but has the side effect of softening the bark. This is good article on briskets by a championship team, but is still just one method..

http://www.thepickledpig.com/f...etition-brisket.html
 
Thanks for that link. I scanned through it and clearly there's some great information there.

One thing though, I think there is a big difference in philosophy between home cooks and competition cooks. The team in that link talks about injecting with something loaded with MSG. Most home cooks aren't interested in doing this. The competition cook has to gear his whole cook to a positive reaction from one bite to a given judge. I know you all know this already, sorry to ramble on.

Thanks again.
 
Yea, I can't believe he wrote that about the FabB, cause judges will absolutely write you off if they think it has MSG and of course they now know his team uses it. Not too smart. I think most comp teams avoid any MSG stuff, I know I do.
The injection and foiling info is pretty standard, though. A good book to get is Competition BBQ Secrets. Has good info even for home cooking.
 
It's a blind box turn in. No judge should know which team the turn in box comes from.

Teams do whatever it takes to get a walk as long as it's legal.

Getting back to the OP.. I cook briskets in the high 200s. It's just where my WSM likes to settle into without fiddling with the vents much. and also foil around 155ish.

Adding a bit of beef broth with diced onions and garlic (at foiling) can also enhance the flavor and au jus. With brisket I'm looking for tenderness first and bark is not a priority.
 
John, thanks for the info. Do you serve with bbq sauce or with the au jus? I have started making the No. 5 sauce for ribs and was thinking of serving it with the brisket.
 
Originally posted by david brociner:
John, thanks for the info. Do you serve with bbq sauce or with the au jus? I have started making the No. 5 sauce for ribs and was thinking of serving it with the brisket.
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Can just use the au jus or a bbq sauce that's not sweet and add the au jus.
 
John, right about adding the au jus to the NO. 5 sauce. I do that with ribs and it makes a big difference. I was also thinking of making Franklin's espresso bbq sauce since I'm planning on using KK's coffee-cocoa rub on the brisket.

I'll know the answer on Wednesday when I serve this up at the party we're attending. I will report back and try to have pictures to prove it really happened.

Tomorrow I'm going to RD, what if they don't have any packers left?!
 
Just wanted to update. Made the brisket fat side down with water in the pan, ran the temps consistently in the low 200's and took off after 11 hours when it hit 200. Didn't trim either and used KK's coffee-cocoa rub. Held in a dry cooler for several hours waiting for company to arrive. Results were good, not great. A little dry on the thin end and less of a smoke ring than I would have expected. I used MM, filled the charcoal ring full with Kingsford comp, dropped a full chimney of lit on top and lined the perimeter of the ring with 7 pieces of wood per Harry Soo's advice. I served with NO. 5 sauce which was great, especially with the addition of the coffee-cocoa rub which totally changed the flavor from when I've made it before. A wonderful, versatile sauce.

I'd like to try HH but time would not allow that on this cook. Next time I will foil at 165 and maybe add some liquid and seasonings to the foil.

Thanks again for all the feedback.
 
J Hoke, Thanks for the link. I smoked my first brisket on my new WSM 18.5" smoker yesterday. I followed Harry Soo's recommendations to run a full load to burn out the manufacturing oils and then a load with beef short ribs to season the WSM.

I cooked a 5.5# CAB flat that was in a cryopac when purchased. I used a dry rub that was included when I bought my first Weber Kettle 35 years ago. I used a full ring of Kingsford charcoal with oak and apple wood chunks using the Minion method to light it. I adjusted the smoker to 225 using the lid thermometer and cooked it for 6.5 hours with a full water pan (fat down. At 6.5 hours it had an internal temperature of 165 so, I foil wrapped it with 1/4 cup beef broth and returned it to the smoker. Two hours later the internal temperature was 200 so , I pulled it off and wrapped the foiled roast in towels and placed it in a Coleman cooler until guests arrived, we ate two hours later and it was moist, tender and very delicious. I'm looking forward to learning as much as I can online but, one thing I'm certain about is that the WSM is a GREAT PRODUCT.
 
cause judges will absolutely write you off if they think it has MSG
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No they won't. MSG is so common and used in such quantities at comps it hardly causes a blip on the radar of most judges, few of which, IME, are accomplished tasters. One literally smells the FAB (and other FAB-like injections) in the air when strolling through comps during cook time.

david, 'a little dry on the thin end' is pretty common with low/slow briskets, especially if there is much of a taper. Foiling can help here but, better, is the combination of high heat and foil. Cooking dynamics change, there is a much more efficient transfer of heat, and the foil prevents evaporation and drip loss, evening the results in terms of moisture.
 
Originally posted by david brociner:
Kevin, wanted to try cooking at high heat but time would not allow. Next time...

BTW, the coffee-cocoa rub was excellent.
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David, did you happen to get your brisket at Sussex Meat on Tuesday? If you did, you beat me to the last one by about 5 minutes according to the head butcher. I'm going up there later today for a 12 pounder that I'm planning on doing low-and-slow overnight for a Saturday lunch.
 
For brisket low and slow here's the best advice I can give you.
1 Definitely put the fat cap down facing the hot fire below to protect the brisket from the marathon event ahead.
Foiling at 165-180 will soften the bark, but will give you a great tender end product.
Check em every 20-30 minutes until you reach fork tender as if you were sticking a fork in room temp butter, (fork goes in with little to no resistance.) I like to pull my briskets with just a little resistance to account for the carry over cooking that happens after removing the meat from the heat source and resting in foil. You can remove the brisket form the foil when almost fork tender and crank up the heat for 20-30 min to crunch the bark back up. All this takes time to learn but that's all the fun in this game. HTH
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Originally posted by PeterD:

David, did you happen to get your brisket at Sussex Meat on Tuesday? If you did, you beat me to the last one by about 5 minutes according to the head butcher. I'm going up there later today for a 12 pounder that I'm planning on doing low-and-slow overnight for a Saturday lunch.
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Peter, got the brisket at Restaurant Depot on 46 in Pine Brook. I posted this on the thread you started about the price of packers. I paid $2.80 per lb. A much shorter drive for you in West Caldwell than going all the way to Sussex Meat. The membership at Restaurant Depot quickly pays for itself in brisket savings alone.
 
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