Brisket failure ( I think)


 
C

Cameron Johnston

New member
Posted December 04, 2009 06:14 PM
Put my first brisket on this morning at about quarter after seven. Five hours later it reached an internal temp of 190. Don't know why.Heres the story.
I woke up and got the meat out of the fridge to let it set at room temp for a while. In the mean time I lit the fire. full ring of unlit coal with half a chimney lit on top.
While that was heating up I injected the meat with a brisket marinade. about 4 to five ounces. I also put a rub that I made from a weber recipie on it. I cut about three inches off the end so it would fit in the cooker. not to sure if thats good or bad.
I put it on when the temp hit about 220 on the lid. I let it get to 250 and maintained for the remainder of the cook.
but a problem I had was my maverick always reads different. 50 degree difference. I know theres many differnt discussions on lid vs grate, but this is a ridiculous difference.
The funny thing is all three thermometers read 204 in boiling water.
during the cook the lid temp read 250, but the maverick read between 260 and 310 while the lid remained the same. I checked it with another digital thermometer that I have and it was consistent with the maverick. But like I said all of them read correct in boiling water.
at the speed the meat cooked I'm thinking the maverick was correct but the forum posts are saying pick one and go with it.
anyway back to the cook. when meat temp reached 165 I removed the brisket, wrapped in foil and returned to the smoker for about another 2 hours when the temp reached 190, onle five hours in I pelled it off.
I tried a small piece and it was tough as can be.
I'm at a loss. I ended up rewrapping it and putting it in the oven at 250 and I plan to leave it there for about 3 or 4 hours. Thats where I'm at now. oh and for those who may be wondering I had three chunks of hickory and a gallon of water in there.
Any suggestions? Do you think it will turn out fine out of the oven evan though the temp already reached 190?
Thanks for reading guys. I would appreciate your responces.
 
I don't know if you were doing a flat or packer, but just for reference I offer the following. Cooked an 8 lb flat last week at ~250 lid temp. Approximately 4 hours to get to 165 and another 4 hours in foil to get to tender. Rested for about half hour. Consistant with most flats I do at about an hour per pound. Importantly, once foiled, internal temps don't mean anything as the cooking dynamics change in foil. You just have to test for tender if the rest period won't be long, or just shy of tender if the rest period will be longer. Like with many things,at least for me, it was trial and error until I got more experienced with the cooker. So in foil, ignore internal temp and just keep cooking until a probe goes in without or with little resistance. You'll get the hang of it.
 
If you cut 3" inches off, it sounds like you had a packer which I have no experience with, but flats I have good luck with. I find the "K.I.S.S' method works best for me. No foil, no turning, no mop etc. Just plop it in and "set it and forget it" for 8-10 hours or so, depending on poundage of course. I go roughly 1.5 hours a pound at around 240-250 lid. I figure the less you mess with it and the smoker the better.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave/G:
Consistant with most flats I do at about an hour per pound. Importantly, once foiled, internal temps don't mean anything as the cooking dynamics change in foil. You just have to test for tender if the rest period won't be long, or just shy of tender if the rest period will be longer. Like with many things,at least for me, it was trial and error until I got more experienced with the cooker. So in foil, ignore internal temp and just keep cooking until a probe goes in without or with little resistance. You'll get the hang of it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed, Once in foil, the internal temp means nothing.
 
thanks guys,
I'm not sure I know the difference between a packer or flat. I'm new to this, and this was only my second smoke, which turned out pretty good out of the oven by the way.It spent three hours in the oven and came out with an internal temp of 208. It turned out moist and juicy, but I wasn't able to cut against the grain without it falling apart. Maybe the knife wasn't sharp enough.
anyway when I went to the butcher I just asked for a whole untrimmed brisket. It was about ten pounds and 19 inches long. 1.5 inches to big for the grate. Would that be a packer?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cameron Johnston:
thanks guys,
I'm not sure I know the difference between a packer or flat. I'm new to this, and this was only my second smoke, which turned out pretty good out of the oven by the way.It spent three hours in the oven and came out with an internal temp of 208. It turned out moist and juicy, but I wasn't able to cut against the grain without it falling apart. Maybe the knife wasn't sharp enough.
anyway when I went to the butcher I just asked for a whole untrimmed brisket. It was about ten pounds and 19 inches long. 1.5 inches to big for the grate. Would that be a packer? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, a whole brisket is a packer which has the flat and point attached together with a good amount of fat in between. Look in on the brisket section of cooking topics for more detail if you haven't already. Cutting against the grain and having the meat fall apart is a sign that the brisket was too tender, overcooked, but you say that it was moist and pretty good so it was no failure. It gets better with experience. If I may offer just one suggestion, put the meat on right after you dump the lit coals and add your wood. Then you can make vent adjustments as needed with the meat already on. I find that taking the meat out of the fridge, rubbing and getting it on without letting it sit at room temperature works well and will give a more pronounced smoke ring.
 
I'm with Bryan and Dave.

A few other points:

Don't cut the brisket; no need. Just wedge it in between the handles.Let it bow up in the middle. It will shrink as it cooks and be just fine.

What I mean when I say 'pick one' in terms of temp is this: Too many go a little nuts with all manner of therms. If the therms read different that becomes the focus. This is unnecessary. Cook the brisket till it becomes tender (what ended up happening in the oven - something you can (and should) check for while the brisket is still in the WSM). Check for tender irrespective of temp - a probe inserted into the center of the flat portion will go in effortlessly. That's done.

Rather than pulling it off at 190, had you reinserted the probe and felt that it was not tender you could have simply left it to cook longer, as 'tough as can be' suggests undercooked.

A therm placed in a foiled brisket cooked at low temps might give you an idea of when to check - but this rarely holds true if the brisket is cooked at higher temps, and often doesn't hold true if the brisket is injected. Trapped moisture in the foil can heat fairly quickly, causing the temps to rise. But it is not internal temps that cause tenderness. It is time, cook time relative to the size and structure of the meat and the temp of the cooker. If a brisket feels tough, re-wrap it (if foiled) and leave it alone for an hour before checking again. If it feels like it might be a little tender, check again in 30 min. As tenderness increases you can check every 15-20 or so. Once you get used to how the process goes and how the meat feels during cooking, and how it feels as it approaches tenderness, this all becomes second nature.
 
Thanks guys you helped a lot.
Is it better and easier to buy a flat? Can you get one untrimmed? or does trimmed or untrimed not really mak a difference?
 
Cameron, I too went through the same experience that you are going through. Once I learned that the internal temp was not as important as the ease at which the probe enters the meat. I too was more focused on the internal rather than the ease at which the probe enters the center of the brisket. Now that I understand this I am able to cook briskets that actually are good enough to eat and they slice like butta (butter. Briskets are funny in that they can reach an internal of 165* rather quickly and once you foil they can get up to the 190's rather quickly as well and if you are too focused by the internal temps, it can and will fool you into thinking it 's done, and making for rather disappointing results. Kevin has a coffee/cocoa rub that I used and it is absolutely wonderful. You should give it a try on your next brisket, you and your family will enjoy it very much.
Good luck with your future cooks
 
Thanks Ed. Glad you like it.

Cameron- I prefer packers: 1) I like saving the smoked point for chili, enchilada sauce or filling, sauce for pasta, among other things; 2) where I am in Fla the flats are wildly overtrimmed. Many here prefer to cook just flats and can get good ones.

I don't shop at the warehouse stores, so am not familiar with what is available in Vegas there, but I know I have bought untrimmed nice flats there. (I cook in Vegas several times a year.) Von's on Decatur? Whole Foods on south Strip? Hmm. Could be either. Then again, it's been a while. Check around. If you see overtrimmed ones ask if they have any untrimmed in the back. Or stick with packers. Your choice.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I don't shop at the warehouse stores, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me neither, I can't see paying to shop at a store before I even buy anything...lol. Anyways.......I get my flats from the Price Chopper around here. I just ask for one that is still in the cryovac and untrimmed. Though I still get charged the trimmed price. $3.99 around here.
 
I did my first flat (6lbs) a week ago. I just bought the WSM18. I smoked it for 6 hours mopping it every hour for the first 4 hours. at 6.5 hours, i got an internal temp of 200 degrees and because of the time i had it in the smoker and the temp, i thought it was done. WRONG! It was a bit tough. it could not be cut with the side of a fork. The flavor was right on but not tender enough. Thanks to all of you that responded to Cameron, I know realize that I need to foil it and not worry about the temp so much. Thanks to all who gave us input and insight!
Now I must try a butt!!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alexander:
I did my first flat (6lbs) a week ago. I just bought the WSM18. I smoked it for 6 hours </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

6 hours seems kind of quick. What temp were you cooking at?
 
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