Brining Changes Meat?


 
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Shawn W

Shawn W

TVWBB Emerald Member
I've notcied that brining seems to change meat characteristics a bit. I like what it does to salmon, but some of the meat on the 28.5lb turkey I did for Canadian Thanksgiving was 'hammy'. It was very much like ham in taste and texture.

I noticed also in the breast meat that yes it was moist, but of different texture than oven roasted birds (not brined) I have done, though I can't really describe the difference, sort of like the meat fibres get all broken up. Slices were a little crumbly.

Could someone explain what brining is supposed to do to poultry meat texture?

Not knocking brining here, it seems like a great way to do poultry, but I think a well cooked bird without brining has even better texure and great moisture too. Anyone disagree?

BTW: I'm gonna do a few brined 2-3 lb chickens this weekend for fun.
 
How long did you brine, and what was the ratio of salt to water? And did you use a curing agent like Morton TenderQuick? I would suspect one of these things.

On occasion, I have noticed the crumbly texture that you mention, but I never associated it with brining. Brining certainly affects texture, as it causes physical changes in meat proteins, causing them to sort of relax and unwind. One might perceive the change as softer or more tender meat.

Regards,
Chris
 
Hi Shawn
I know what you mean, I've noticed the ham-taste effect when I've used sugar in the brine, so I don't do that any more (just salt, and maybe some flavour: garlic/thyme etc). To me, it seems the salty, sugary taste throughout the meat, rather than just on the outside is what reminds me of ham.
Then there's the texture thing. I've definitely noticed it when I use sugar in the brine ... sort of squidgy granular meat fibres. It could be the [length of the brining] * [salt concentration], as Chris mentioned. Salt is used to precipitate proteins out of solution, at low concentration salt increases the solubility of muscle proteins, at high concentrations this is not true; this may be the "crumbly texture", perhaps an experiment using boneless skinless breasts and various concentrations and times ?

If I do the experiment, I'll post the results.

morgan
 
Hi,

I have been brining meats for years and agre withh all of the comments.

My experience is that brining for too long will definitely change the texture. Makes sense since that's how pork is turned into ham.

I haven't found that the sugar has any effect on texture though, but it sure does make for a nice dark skin !!

I usually brine my turkeys for about 1 hour per pound. and then dry for 12. I don't like real big birds 18-20 pounders, I stick to the 12-15
pound range. If I am having a big crowd I'll do 2 12 pounders.

Al
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Allingham:
How long did you brine, and what was the ratio of salt to water? And did you use a curing agent like Morton TenderQuick? I would suspect one of these things...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The brine was the TVWB ref topic Honey Brined turkey (Shake's Honey Brine) for 20 hours.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If I am having a big crowd I'll do 2 12 pounders <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> that's a good way to go ... I prefer the smaller birds as well. Think I'll try to do that myself for next WSM cook. 2 racks ... 2 turkeys.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> ... Then there's the texture thing. I've definitely noticed it when I use sugar in the brine ... sort of squidgy granular meat fibres. .. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Ok, when I do my chickens this weekend I'll brine one with sugar and one without to see if I notice a difference.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shawn W:
The brine was the TVWB ref topic Honey Brined turkey (Shake's Honey Brine) for 20 hours. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The hammy flavor you disliked was most likely the result of the TenderQuick, as it's a curing agent similar to those used to transform fresh pork into cured ham.

The texture was probably due to the length of brine time. 20 hours is a very long brine time for a turkey. Nowadays I only go 8-12 hours tops.

Regards,
Chris

Regards,
Chris
 
The 'hammy' meat was ok, very much like ham in texture and density. I didn't dislike it, it was just strange ... being a turkey after all, and I only noticed a few pieces that were like that, the very top of the breast closest to the neck for example.

Will try 12 hours next time. Thanks Chris.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shawn W:
... Ok, when I do my chickens this weekend I'll brine one with sugar and one without to see if I notice a difference. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I ended up brining six boneless skinless chicken breast for two hours. Three in water, sugar & salt. Three in water and salt. (1 qt water, .5C salt, .5C sugar, omitted sugar from no sugar brine). Wish I had left 2 unbrined for comparison ... next time.

Removed from brine, rinsed, dryed with paper towel. Let air dry, Rubbed with extra virgin olive oil. Grilled. Just before removing, applied Montreal Chicken seasoning. Rested on tray under foil for 20 minutes. Pools of clear juice all over bottom of pan.
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I only noticed two differences. The first was coming out of the brine. The ones in the sugar brine were slippery while the ones from the no sugar brine were tacky, even when wet. Second, the sugar brine ones did not taste salty, but the no sugar ones were overly salty.

In tenderness and juiciness there was no discernable difference between the sugar brine and the non-sugar brine in my opinion.
 
Thanks for the info. (This turned into a non-cooking weekend. So far the total cooking has been breakfast on Saturday.) If I play around next weekend, (have to take the bride out of town to work at a 50th reception) I may look at brining times. Say 2, 4, 8, and 12 hours for comparison.

Does anyone have any information or research on how brining times vary with the size/thickness of the meat? Like how does an "X" hour brine time on a chicken breast scale up to a 12 lb turkey?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vernon N:
Does anyone have any information or research on how brining times vary with the size/thickness of the meat? Like how does an "X" hour brine time on a chicken breast scale up to a 12 lb turkey? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't think the formula you're looking for exists. Brine time varies by the type of meat, size of meat, strength of the brine solution, and personal taste.

Your best bet is to refer to reputable recipes and brine time tables, like those shown in the All About Brining article.

How Long to Brine Different Meats
Brining Recipes to Get You Started

Regards,
Chris
 
There I go being an idiot again and not reading the rest of the site. The brining times link has caused me to rethink my plans for the turkey. 6 hours on the chicken (3-8 hour range) was plenty and so I probably will run the turkey for 12-16 hours. Thanks Chris for all the info on this site. I just hope that I occaisionally contribute a little.
 
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