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Baby Backs levelling off too quick!


 
M

Mark Cormier

TVWBB Member
Hey gang ... I seem to have a bit of a problem with my smoker and cooking baby back ribs. (Same thing happened when I did brisket as well) I have one of those handy-dandy remote thermometers that monitors the grate temp and the food temp. My problem is that the baby backs yesterday only got to 148 degrees and climbed no higher. Here is the data:

-I live north of Boston and it was 32 degrees ... fairly windy, though not a typhoon
-I maintained 240 degrees at the grate using the Minion Method and half a ring full of unlit charcoal
-I had 2 racks of ribs for a total of 5 lbs. vertically on the top rack in a rib-rack
-I cooked for roughly 3 1/2 hours ... I removed the ribs twice ... once for re-rubbing and once for saucing (Kansas-City style!)

My goal was 160 degrees for the ribs. (Medium for pork meat)

As I indicated above, same thing happened to a brisket. My target goal there was 190 degrees and I leveled off at 170.

Any thoughts? (If I got any of the above wrong, feel free to throw in how you do baby-backs!)

Thanks Gang!
 
First of all, I'm no expert. Let's start with the ribs. From what I've learned, ribs should cooked till tender, forget about temperature. You probably needed to go at least another couple hours at that temp. Also, try starting with a full ring of charcoal.

Same with Brisket. Temp means nothing as far as being "done" It's done when a probe or wooden skewer goes in without much resistance. There are many ways to go about cooking brisket, I prefer the high temp method. Trust me, just keep at it, and forget about it, you'll ace it! Hope this helps.

Steve
 
Hey Mark,

Not trying to be a smart alec here, but what do you think went wrong? Sometimes you have to trust your instincts. Ask yourself, was the meat too tender, did it stick to the bone too much, did my fire look like it was dying, were the ribs dried out, were they too dark, were they too pale, what would have happened if I cooked at 275 instead, was I happy with the results I got, what was wrong with them, what was right?

Steve brings up some good points. The most important one, keep at it. Start a note book and take some notes.

For loins, i smoke for 3, foil for about an hour, then finish 'em off w/ a glaze. But those are just approximate times, each cook can be just a little differnt, maybe 2.5 hours is all they need before foil...

Practice practice and practice...best part is even the practice food tastes good!!!
 
Steve's correct; they needed a longer cook time and they're done when they're done. A full ring of charcoal would have helped your temps. At the end of 3.5 hrs, did you have any charcoal left? Did you sample them at 3.5 hrs - how were they? Or did you finish in the oven? Low and slow ribs generally take around 6 hours and many people prefer the tear test. Grab 2 ribs and see if you get a little resistance when pulling them apart. Foiling will help speed up the process some, but don't leave the ribs foiled for more than an hour otherwise you'll get a 'mushy' consistency.
Brisket too needs to cook until it's done. Brisket is notorious for hitting a plateau where the temp of the meat just doesn't want to move up. Have patience, it will. Many use a fork or thermo probe to test for doneness. When either can be inserted into the meat and if feels like butter, the brisket is done. It will also wiggle a little like jello when done.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Paul K:...
feels like butter, the brisket is done. It will also wiggle a little like jello when done. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice way to describe it! Mmmmm.....Jello brisket.....

Steve
 
Thanks for the replies/interest:

In reply to Joe Mcmanus, no harm taken with your reply. That is the first thing that I ask my instincts ... what do I think went wrong? I personally think that they should be cooked longer. What was "wigging" me out was the recipe in "Smoke and Spice". I essentially made the Kansas City Sloppy Ribs ... they indicate that on a smoker at 220 degrees, it should take 4 hours. I figured that I was running higher than that at 240, so 4 hours should be plenty. My gut is telling me though that 6 hours would have been closer.

My brisket is the same way ... I get it to 170, with a target of 190, and that levels off and appears to not move either. Sounds like I need more patience/better planning ...

I guess what I should be doing is adding hours to the cooking time. With brisket, you can finish cooking ahead of time and let the meat rest for quite a long time before serving. For ribs, they should be served immediately. Perhaps I was simply freaking out that I was trying to time it according to the book and it didn't turn out that way.

I believe I am not accounting for outside temperature as much as I should either. Colder = considerably more smoking time = more beer drinking!!!
icon_smile.gif


But that is a good question ... I know ribs are done by feel ... surely there should be a minimum temp though, no?
 
I did check rib temps once. It was ~205. (This was a high heat cook. Temps might be different with a lower temp cook.) It is not something I'd bother with or recommend though as they're so thin. When the probe goes in with no resistance, however, they're done. Ribs will not be anywhere near done at 160 as the connective tissue and fat haven't rendered enough at all.

Numerous cookbooks are poorly edited and Smoke and Spice is no exception.

Ribs don't need to be served immediately. Colder doesn't equal more smoking time unless your cooktemps are colder or unless it took longer for your targeted cooktemp to be reached due to the cold. If you want them sooner, cook at a higher temp.

Brisket, like butt, will plateau in the 160s if cooking low/slow. It can take several hours for the temps to move past 170 (they often drop a few degrees during the plateau).
 
That is what I was seeing with my brisket ... I would hit 165-170 and then it would stop. Physics has it that if the meat is in a higher temp environment, it would need to keep climbing ... but again, what do I know.

Perhaps I should be smoking my ribs at a higher temp then. I have always used the Minion method with the cooker. How would I alter if if I wanted to go hotter? (And how hot should that be?)

Thanks
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mark Cormier:
I believe I am not accounting for outside temperature as much as I should either. Colder = considerably more smoking time = more beer drinking!!!
icon_smile.gif


But that is a good question ... I know ribs are done by feel ... surely there should be a minimum temp though, no? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I live just west of Boston. I wouldn't be so concerned with the air temp as much as the wind. The wind really messes with the Smoker temps. (Make a good wind screen. Its worth it.) I've done overnights when its gotten down to the single digits and no issues.

I'm sure there is a minimum temp but I honestly never have checked (ribs). You'll be able to tell when they're done after a few times of practice. I honestly don't think you could get a true temp unless you had a Thermopen anyway.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">(And how hot should that be?) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I cook high--~325 for backs, 275 for spares. This isn't a 'should' though; just what I prefer. I often finish in foil with a little juice (but not always), returning the ribs to the cooker unfoiled to firm up for about 5-7 min.

I Minion the start even on high heat cooks. I don't start closing vents tha soon though, and I use an empty, foiled pan.

If you don't want to go that high you can just wait to close vents a bit longer and if it's cold out skip the water in the pan.
 
Ah, that is another good point. I always use a non-foiled full water pan ... but again, I can usually get my grate temp to about 240 ...
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mark Cormier:
Ah, that is another good point. I always use a non-foiled full water pan ... but again, I can usually get my grate temp to about 240 ... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Mark,
The other day I did some chicken thighs. I used one Weber chimney full of lit coals. I put the chicken on, closed the lid and almost immediately was up to ~325* with an empty water pan.
May I suggest that you use a foiled pan for easier clean up, whether you use water or something else like the clay saucer or nothing at all. Saves a lot of scrubbing.
I find that when I Minion, it can take an hour or so to get up to where I want it. So as not to overshoot your target, start closing the bottom vents as you approach 200*. It'll settle. You can always adjust vents to allow more oxygen in or keep it out depending on where you are at heat wise.
Ribs, brisket etc take some time and patience is key no matter how anxious you are or how hungry. I find that cooking in the 260* range, BB's take about 4-4.5 hours, but alot depends on wind, etc. Removing the ribs to add rub and sauce loses heat and prolongs the cook. I don't find it is necessary to add rub. Sauce can be added near the end of the cook for best results IMO. Test the ribs at the 4 hour mark, thereabouts, with a probe between two bones as said above. Believe me, you will know if the probe is going in with or without resistance.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mark Cormier:
That is what I was seeing with my brisket ... I would hit 165-170 and then it would stop. Physics has it that if the meat is in a higher temp environment, it would need to keep climbing ... but again, what do I know. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right, physics tells us that as you add heat, temp goes up UNLESS you have a phase transition, like water to steam. With brisket it goes up to about 170 then stop rising for a while and the meat becomes tender - as if the collagen was melting.

After it is tender, I think the temp would continue to rise, but when I see the meat is tender or almost, it goes into a cooler to rest.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mark Cormier:
Thanks for the replies/interest:

what do I think went wrong? I personally think that they should be cooked longer. What was "wigging" me out was the recipe in "Smoke and Spice". I essentially made the Kansas City Sloppy Ribs ... they indicate that on a smoker at 220 degrees, it should take 4 hours. I figured that I was running higher than that at 240, so 4 hours should be plenty. My gut is telling me though that 6 hours would have been closer.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
do NOT trust the times in Smoke and Spice..they are way off (as you found out)
 
Sounds like the tear test is the way to go ... I think I am way too attached to my digital thermometer.
icon_smile.gif


Do people find that the Smoke and Spice is a good book? I thought the ribs came out REALLY well, despite my problems. (I don't know if I mentioned it, but I did bring them in and finish them in the oven ... the smoking was done and they just needed a little help over the finish line) I have been pedaling the ribs around my friends and they all want me to adopt them. (BBQ does make such wonderful friends)

As an aside, for my "side", I made the Kansas City beans with them using the Struttin' Sauce ... to die for.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mark Cormier:

Do people find that the Smoke and Spice is a good book? . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
not really..it was the first book I bought and it really screwed me when I was first starting out with the inaccurate cook times.
You will get more accurate and helful information off these bbq forums.
If I had to choose a book though I will say that DR BBQs books are good. I wish I had them when I was first starting out. More practical and accurate knowledge than Smoke and Spice IMO
 
Paul Kirk Championship bbq is a one I like. I use the cook times as a guide and give my self xtra time. Once I get in the range I start to check it. I use to probe my food and dome temp and watch Now I just let it go Once you do it for a while you will learn how your cooker runs and adapt to it.
 
Keep in mind the many variables that affect a cook. Type of smoker, meat and ambient conditions all have a role in cook times. NEVER use time as a rule, but it may be used as a guide to start checking your meat. Just remember that it is DONE when it is DONE!

Butts - temps are usually a good guide to determine when it is done.

Brisket - temps are a good guide, but texture/feel is still the best determining factor for doneness.

Ribs - the ONLY real way to tell if these are done is by feel. Tug two bones apart or slide a toothpick between the bones.

The whole texture/feel thing can be daunting to beginners, but experience makes it easier. Keep cooking and keep learning - it definitely gets easier.
 
I tried to start a poll, but I'm not authorized.

Would someone who is be willing to start a poll:
What is your favorite BBQ book, and why?

Jeff
 
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