2nd Brisket this Weekend Questions

[LarryR]

Updated with PICTURES

I'm doing a 12lb whole brisket this weekend and I have a couple of questions. My first brisket wasn't that great; I don't think I cooked it or foiled it long enough. If memory serves me correctly I pulled around 185 and foiled for only 30 minutes or so.

I'll be doing Wild Willy's Rub and Mop on this one. Only change I may make is cutting the cayenne in 1/2 as my six year old may not be able to handle the heat.

1) I see varying opinions on target temp. coming in between 190 and 205. Am I correct here? Based on my experience at the bbq comp. I attended I'm going to also do the fork tender method. Using this method where do I test, the flat?

2) How long should I foil (off smoker) and should I add liquid (apple juice) to my foil.

3) I'm a huge fan of No. 5 sauce, however if memory serves me correctly I wasn't impressed with how it went with my brisket. Are there other sauces I should look at that may go better with brisket?

4) How much wood? I looked at the Midnight Brisket in the cooking section and it looks like Chris used a lot of wood and from his review it sounds like the brisket handled it well. I'm thinking about 6 med. size chunks of red oak or a combination of hickory and red oak. Any suggestions or tips here?

Thanks in advance for your input!

 

[Larry Wolfe]

Originally posted by LarryR:
I'm doing a 12lb whole brisket this weekend and I have a couple of questions. My first brisket wasn't that great; I don't think I cooked it or foiled it long enough. If memory serves me correctly I pulled around 185 and foiled for only 30 minutes or so.

I'll be doing Wild Willy's Rub and Mop on this one. Only change I may make is cutting the cayenne in 1/2 as my six year old may not be able to handle the heat.

1) I see varying opinions on target temp. coming in between 190 and 205. Am I correct here? Based on my experience at the bbq comp. I attended I'm going to also do the fork tender method. Using this method where do I test, the flat?

Start checking using the fork test or a meat probe at 190*, if you can slide it in with just a slight bit of resistance it's done. If not test again at 195*, at that point I would pull it whether it passes the test or not. It will continue to cook during the resting period. If you cook much higher than 195* you'll have a very tender brisket, but will likely fall apart when you slice. Yes, check the temp and fork test in the flat, the point will need several more hours of cooking, separate and return to the cooker while the flat rests in a cooler.

2) How long should I foil (off smoker) and should I add liquid (apple juice) to my foil.

I would shy away from adding any liquid, it can produce a pot roast vs. a brisket. Just foil and let rest a couple hours. Minimum 2 hours for as long as 4 or more. This will tenderize and redistribute all the juices back into the meat. Open up the foil and let thoroughly cool before slicing, this will also help with moisture.

3) I'm a huge fan of No. 5 sauce, however if memory serves me correctly I wasn't impressed with how it went with my brisket. Are there other sauces I should look at that may go better with brisket?

I like the natural juices of the brisket, versus adding any sauce.

4) How much wood? I looked at the Midnight Brisket in the cooking section and it looks like Chris used a lot of wood and from his review it sounds like the brisket handled it well. I'm thinking about 6 med. size chunks of red oak or a combination of hickory and red oak. Any suggestions or tips here?

Depends on the wood you are using, but the combination you have stated sounds like what I use. That is a good combo of wood chunks! Depends on the wood you are using, but the combination you have stated sounds like what I use. That is a good combo of wood chunks!

Thanks in advance for your input!

 

[K Kruger]

If you want a sauce for serving, you can base one on the #5 but make a few additions/changes.

Start with the original ingredients:

1 cup ketchup
1/2 cup cider vinegar
1/3 cup brown sugar
1 tablespoon worchestershire sauce
1 tablespoon rub

Consider changing:

the 1/2 c cider vinegar to 2 T
the 1/3 c brown sugar to 1 T

Consider adding:

1 c pineapple juice
1 small onion, finely chopped or minced
2 T unsalted butter
1 clove garlic, minced or pressed
1/2 t dry thyme
1/8 t dry marjoram
1 T honey
a few drops of fresh lemon juice

In a small pot, combine the vinegar, pineapple juice and Worcestershire and bring to a boil over med-high heat. Reduce the heat to med then simmer till the contents of the pot are reduced by about half; reserve off heat.

Meanhile, in a med pot melt the unsalted butter over med-low heat. Add the onion, raise the heat to meds-high, the cook, stirring often, till the onion browns in spots, 7-10 min. Add the thyme, marjoram and garlic, stir well, then cook jut till the garlic is fragrant, about 45 seconds.* Immedately add the reserved juice-vin mixture.

Stir in the ketchup, brown sugar, honey, and about 1/4 of the rub. Bring to a boil then reduce the heat to medium. (At this point can puree sauce with a hand or conventional blender till smooth. Return to pot.) Simmer, stirring occasionally, till reduced and somewhat thicker. Taste for salt and add additional rub if desired. Adjust sweetness. Remove from heat. Add a few drops of lemon juice.

Stir in 1-4 T or juices from the foil, if desired, before serving.

* Optional: At this point, if desired, tip the pan away from you and add 1 T cognac, brandy or armagnac (or whiskey). Ignite, let the flame subside, then continue with the recipe.

 

[LarryR]

Am I gathering that like a good steak, brisket is not to be served with any sauce that may mask the flavor of the beef and rub?

 

[Erik G]

Larry, I foil my brisket at around 160-165 and let it cook till 190 and start using the fork test as Larry Wolfe mentioned above. After reaching my desired temp., I throw it in the ice chest anywhere between 4-6 hours. It has always produced great brisket IMO. Let me know how your cook turns out in this cold weather, I'll most likely be preparing one for Christmas.

Erik

 

[Lennard Kong]

I go unfoiled until 190 or so but check that it is just about wobbly when forked

Then foil for at least 45mins.
Makes a big difference, one thing I noticed is that if it is not foiled/rested as long it tends not to be as juicy especially after it has been sitting on the serving plate and coming down to room temp

 

[Lou Tarnay]

I Cook the point on the top rack directly above the flat on the lower rack. At my house some like bbq beef (pulled beef basically), some like sliced. I follow Lennard Kong's method exactly for the flat. I take the point up to 200-205 and then foil and rest in the cooler. the flat is sliced and the point is pulled. I had mixed results with brisket until I started doing it this way.

 

[Paul H]

Larry, I agree with you. I've yet to find a good sauce to put on brisket other than Wostershire sauce. The sauce has to bring out all the highlights of beef without masking that flavor.

Originally posted by LarryR:
Am I gathering that like a good steak, brisket is not to be served with any sauce that may mask the flavor of the beef and rub?

 

[Larry Wolfe]

Originally posted by LarryR:
Am I gathering that like a good steak, brisket is not to be served with any sauce that may mask the flavor of the beef and rub?

That's the way I like it. But some people prefer sauce. If you would like to make a simple sauce that will compliment the beef try this.

1 cup of juice from the foiled brisket
1 cup leftover brewed coffee or 8oz of coke (any cola regular or sugar free will work)
2 TBS Butter

Combine ingredients, bring to a boil and reduce by half. This will give you a nice sauce that will not dominate the flavor of the beef.

 

[K Kruger]

The sauce has to bring out all the highlights of beef without masking that flavor.

Agreed.

But I think the problem is often one of quantity. Many people assume that a sauce needs to be--or should be--poured over the meat. Not so, of course. A little sauce on the plate or in a bowl on the side that one can dip into just a bit is often the ticket.

Many sauces can complement beef--but can't in excess.

 

[Paul H]

Kevin, I like Larry's simple recipe . If you have any others would you post them on the rub,sauce,site. Cause they are hard to refind if they are not posted in the appropriate area. I really hate printing these and having to keep in a binder. Sorry about side tracking this thread. Thanks

 

[LarryR]

So I've got my brisket rubbed down and I'm going to start her around 11:00 p.m. tonight. I think I'll whip up a small batch of Kevin's sauce with a bit of cognac. Sounds yummy. I'll serve on the side for those who want a little sauce.

I'll let everyone know how the second smoke turns out. Thanks for the advice/input.

 

[LarryR]

So I'm 1:05 into my second overnight brisket, it's cool here tonight (40F @ 11:00 p.m.) and I'm surprised how well the WSM is doing in this cold weather. I was at 235 (lid) within 25 minutes and now I'm hovering around 240 at the lid.

I bumped my starting coals to 15 lit up from my usually 10 - 12 and knock on wood, that looks like the magic number.

Erik, so far not many adjustments other than a couple more lit to start and my vents are just a "tad" more open than usual for this cold weather we're having.

Oh, for those who care, MM, Rancher and clay saucer.

I'm going to watch my temps for another 20 - 30 min. then it's off to bed for hopefully a full nights sleep.

 

[LarryR]

OK, this is really odd for such cold weather. At 1:50 into my cook I have all three vents closed and I'm hovering between 250 and 252 lid, can't seem to get her any lower. So much for my being worried about temps in cold weather.

Well, she should be OK running at 250 all night I suppose. Off to bed.

 

[Erik G]

Larry, It's currently in the upper 30's over here. So do you think 15 coals were too much? Are you using the 14 inch clay saucer with the stock water pan or the 12 inch clay saucer with the brinkmann water pan?

Erik

 

[LarryR]

ET-73+WSM = full nights sleep

So this has been one strange overnight smoke. Around 12:15 a.m. I realized it wasn't going to lower the temps any more than 250 (since all bottom vents were closed) so I went to bed.

SO woke me up at 5:00 a.m., I looked at the ET and she was at 230, back to sleep. I woke up at 6:45 a.m. and she was back up to 250. Remember, bottom vents have been closed 100% all night. As far as I can tell, cold weather has had no affect (right usage?) on my overnight smoke. I'm currently sitting at 248 (lid), 167 meat with all bottom vents closed.

Erik, I wouldn't say 15 coals were too much, but I could have gotten away with 10 - 12. I'm using my 14" with standard WSM pan.

Another note, I decided to go with fat up, no baste and no turn on this brisket.

 

[K Kruger]

Sounds like it's going well.

It's possible you have minor air intake from the bottom-middle joint but if so it's not much. That or from around a vent.

I never baste or flip. I do cook fat down tp protect the underside from bearing the brunt of heat emanating from the bottom--especially germane without water--but you might not have an issue.

Havea terrific meal!

 

[LarryR]

Just an update, I'm 13 hours into my cook, she's sitting at 181 with the lid temp at 236 and all bottom vents still 100% closed. Strange, on Thanksgiving I had a hard time getting her to 325 with all vents open.

Still never ceases to impress me how you can basically set your WSM and "forget-it." I literally haven't touched her since 12:30 a.m. Didn't have to check it once throughout the night and even took off shopping for 2 hours this morning. Amazing stuff.

A side note as this is only my second brisket I'm still not 100% comfortable with carving one. So I hit YouTube and unfortunately I couldn't find any good videos on slicing. Does anyone out there know of one? If you wouldn't mind posting, I'd greatly appreciate it.

 

[LarryR]

PICTURES

Hope people don't mind that that I'm adding so many postings to my thread.

HELP/ADVICE!!!!

So Kevin K. spooked me a bit with the fat down near the heat tip so with my brisket at 181 (still) I decided to turn her. Took the lid off for the first time in 14 hours and oh god, what a smell. Anyway, I removed the probe, flipped her (bottom looks OK) and put the probe back in. As the probe was sliding in I was feeling to see how close we are to "fork tender." I can tell you this, I've never felt fork tender but if this wasn't it, I don't know what is. Slid in like a warm knife through butter. However, upon pulling the probe out to test another location juice with some blood came out of the hole that the probe was just vacating. Another observation, as I got closer to the fat side I'd say about 3/4 of the way through her she firmed up just a bit. So here's my question, am I done? Again, she's only at 181 and I check a couple different locations on the flat. She's been in the smoker for 14 hours at a temp ranging from 230 - 250. HELP.

PS I really hope these long posts throughout my cooks help others when researching how do to something.

 

[K Kruger]

When I check temps--which isn't often--I check the center of the flat in one spot or two. When I'm feeling for tenderness I check a few spots in the flat--away from the thinner end--and go from there. If the probe or fork enters and releases smoothly I pull it for resting.

(Whether the bottom of a fat-up brisket will suffer from direct heat largely depends on cooktemp, air/heat flow and the quality of the meat. (Choice--especially mid-range or higher--can handle it better.) I cook fat down so I don't have to think about it; so the rub stays intact on the no-fat side rather than getting scraped by the grate; and because fat up offers no benefit in terms of moistness.)