2nd brisket, same result


 
A

aj.goldsmith

New member
Hi, like the subject says my second brisket smoke. Both times I went with 2 grocery store flats, not the whole packer (lack of confidence, then lack of planning LOL). I have done a total of 10-12 smokes - chicken a couple ways, ribs a few times, tri-tip a few times, pork butt twice. Generally I feel like I'm having good success except with brisket.

Today, these were on the small side - 3# each, smoked at 225* for 3 hours (targeting internal temp of 190*), then upped to 250 for 2 more hours. 5 hours total, took them off at internal temp of 175*.

In both brisket smokes, the meat is delicious tasting but on the dry side but not too bad. I'm just looking for the moistness. Next time I'm going for an overnight smoke with a full packer cut but sometimes it's convenient to have a small flat(s) to only take 5 hours or so. What adjustments would it take to make these smaller grocery store flats work?

Thanks in advance for your advice, I love this site (and so does my family!)

AJ
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by aj.goldsmith:
Hi, like the subject says my second brisket smoke. Both times I went with 2 grocery store flats, not the whole packer (lack of confidence, then lack of planning LOL). I have done a total of 10-12 smokes - chicken a couple ways, ribs a few times, tri-tip a few times, pork butt twice. Generally I feel like I'm having good success except with brisket.

Today, these were on the small side - 3# each, smoked at 225* for 3 hours (targeting internal temp of 190*), then upped to 250 for 2 more hours. 5 hours total, took them off at internal temp of 175*.

In both brisket smokes, the meat is delicious tasting but on the dry side but not too bad. I'm just looking for the moistness. Next time I'm going for an overnight smoke with a full packer cut but sometimes it's convenient to have a small flat(s) to only take 5 hours or so. What adjustments would it take to make these smaller grocery store flats work?

Thanks in advance for your advice, I love this site (and so does my family!)

AJ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
AJ, You might not have a big family to cook for, but leftover smoked brisket from the freezer is super, and super convenient!

The reason I mention this is: go and get you a full packer brisket, about 12 lbs, and just smoke it. Do some homework, and find out that not all folks try to smoke 'em at 225 anymore, not even just at the start. My high-heat briskets so far are limited to "foiled after 160 IMT", and all my "traditional" brisket smokes have been 225-250. HOWEVER, do your homework and you'll learn that there's a lot of different ways to successfully cook briskets. (For instance, I plan on shooting for a 275 wsm temp next time without water in my pan and 325 later after the meat gets hot, without foiling.)

I think a couple of mistakes are to not start off with a decent sized whole brisket, and the other is to simply not cook it enough....whether that's hot enough or long enough.
 
aj: I am by no means a brisket expert, but have had some good luck with them, even the flats. First question are you foiling your briskets? If not, foiling may help with your moistness issue. Usually what you do is smoke unfoiled until about 160 internal temp, then foil (a foil pan is good for this and then tent with aluminum foil putting a little of liquid in bottom of foil pan....about 1/2 cup to cup depending on how many flats). Keep foiled until about 195 and check for doneness. Once done, then I put it back on WSM unfoiled, add another layer of rub, and keep it on for about 30 min to firm up bark.

Next question, are you pulling the meat and eating it after it reaches 175? Like I said above, I have not had a brisket that was done to my liking below 195 yet.

If you really want to get some moisture into your briskets, then injecting with Butchers or Kosmos will really help, but that is not cheap.

Hope this helps and good luck,
Kg
 
AJ, welcome to the world of brisket. I have had your experience with my first 3 brisket cooks. I did let them go a bit longer than you but still not as moist as I liked. Yesterday I jumped ship and did my 1st HH brisket. Scared to death that I would kill it, but I had no choice as I am cooking a 15lb brisket Friday away from home and can't do a long cook. Anyway yesterdays briskted came out fork tender, great taste, great bark and just down right good. One think that has changed besides using the HH method is that I basically ignored the meat temp. Read up on HH brisket here and see what I mean. There are several members who know what they are doing. At ant rate at the end of the cook I waited until the prob went into the meat "like butter". I was always afraid to let it cook so long before, thinking that I would go past the perfect point and get to the overcooked point. Well I just trusted the advice of others here and ignored the temp and kept checking every 1/2 hr till the prob just slid in with almost no resistance. OMG, tender and juicey. Probabley would have been even more so except I put a hole in my foil during the foiling stage and lost a bunch of liquid.

So keep tryin and WAIT till it's done, by feel ,not by temp.

Mark

1sthhbrisket005.jpg


1sthhbrisket007.jpg
 
Hi Guys, thanks for your advice.

Those pics look great Mark, just in time for lunch! My briskets were not "fork tender".

OK this sounds great. so I'm going to order up a full brisket in a couple of weeks do a HH smoke. I've done a couple of briskie test runs, time to go for it. And doing it during day sounds better than an overnight. I usually work in the garage on one of my cars and tend to the smoker (and get really hungry) while I cook.

Thanks again for your advice, it is much appreciated. I'll post back on my results.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I think a couple of mistakes are to not start off with a decent sized whole brisket, and the other is to simply not cook it enough </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed.

I think often - especially for newer cooks - people think that smaller at the get-go is 'safer'. Phooey. Get something more substantial - even if a large thick flat of 6-8 pounds - but I'd really recommend grabbing a packer and learning with it (or a few, as the case may be), as Mark and Dave suggest.

If your brisket was not fork tender it did not cook long enough. Though internal temps are often referred to as some sort of marker for 'done' they really aren't. If you learn to figure 'done' by the way the meat feels you can cook great brisket every time. It can take a few cooks to learn (and, mostly, to get comfortable with cooking by feel and not by temp) but it is well, well worth it.

(I cook on numerous cookers, all over the country - charcoal-fired and gas-fired (I do not like gassers!) - as well as all brands and price point of ovens, electric, gas, dual-fuel, infra-red. Once you understand the dynamics of cooking meat - and this is not difficult by any stretch, it just takes a bit of time and observation - you can cook any meat in any environment on any cooker and end up with great results all the time.)
 
Thanks Kevin,

I have a question about this concept. So would you normally see the meat firmer at 175* and see it tender up as it gets hotter inside? This is kind of counterintuitive but I trust it because it's obvious what more experienced cooks are seeing.

On the foiling technique Keith mentions a pan and tenting alum over it until it reaches 195*. Do you guys foil it so it's sealed with a little room inside around the meat, or pretty loose or pretty tight?

Thinking about my experience this weekend, it seems that cooking at 225 for a few hours it got dry and 160*. If I put it in foil until 195*, it would pick up moisture or at least tenderness? Is that from it continuing to break down the connective tissue?
 
Aj, HH is real simple. Get temp on WSM to around 325-375. Put meat on . When the temp ,at the thickest part of the flat,reaches around 165-170,wrap with aluminum foil. Check for tenderness every 20- 30 minutes till you can insert a probe with little resistance. When you reach that point, It's done. Save juices from inside foil if you want. You can also throw the brisket back on for a little while to firm up the meat. After pulling meat off let rest. VOILA!!! enjoy
 
aj: If you use the foil, you want to leave some room so the juices have somewhere to go. If you use a foil pan, then it will allow plenty of room, just take aluminum foil and create a top for the pan to close it up tight.

If you foil the meat, yes it will help with keeping the meat moist while decreasing the cooking time (for low heat cooks). Everyone telling you to check for doneness vice relying on temp is correct....test with a fork. I have a temp probe in my meat so I start checking with a fork about 190-195.

As I said, foiling will speed up the process so if you do decide to continue with the lower temps (225-250), then don't count on the brisket taking nearly as long to cook after you foil it.

Good luck,
Kg
 
aj-- Yes, essentially. It is not so much a particular temp number as it is the time - temp can correlate with tenderness but does not cause it- as enough time passes (and, yes, the temps will rise during this period) rendering of the internal soft fat deposits and the connective tissue will cause the meat to 'tender up'. This is why, prior to this point, brisket (and ribs and others) will seem dry and, to some, overcooked. They're actually dry and undercooked.

I use foil, not a pan. I prefer a tighter environment than a pan affords, but I maintain some space around the brisket and above it.

I don't really recommend temping the meat at all if cooking at high heat and foiling, once foiled. Cooking dynamics change when meat is foiled and cooktemps are higher. I've seen temps of 195, 200, 205 within minutes after foiling on some occasions (it depends on a few variables). If one is a cook-by-numbers sort of guy this could lead one to assume the brisket is done - and members who have seen this and removed the brisket because of a particular temp was achieved...and the brisket was in fact undercooked.

Instead, I recommend cooking till tender. By feel. Me, I put the cold meat on as soon as I assemble the cooker. (Others get the cooker to temp first - there is no single right way.) I like the time the meat spends in the smoke while the cooker gets up to temp. (I Minion the start with about 25 lit.) I don't temp at all: at ~2.25-2.5 hours after the meat went in I foil it. (Others foil at 165-170, as paul notes. That works too. If doing a flat I'd recommend foiling at 165 if thick, 160 if thin or overtrimmed.)

I start checking for done about 1.25 hours after foiling. (Temps, btw were ~335-350 during smoking, 350-370 during the foiled stage.) I uncrimp the foil, being careful not to spill juices (there are usually a lot with a packer) and stick my probe into the center of the flat portion to feel for tender. Most times it's not quite there yet and I re-crimp then check in 15. If not then, then I check again after 10. I rarely have a brisket go longer than 4:10 or 4:15. Most come in right near 4 hours.
 
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