Mike_L (Big Mike)
TVWBB Fan
Wow I did not realize how off my lid thermometer was off. My new maverick says it is around 60 degrees hotter. Is this normal? Can I do a boil check with the barbecue probe?
Lid thermometer
- Thread starter Mike_L (Big Mike)
- Start date
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
I know what 'most' recommend. I see no reason to cook typical barbecue - especially commercial pork - at 225. (I cook most stuff much higher. Butts are the only things I low/slow. For me that's 250-275.)
Regardless, and regardless of the temps at which you choose to cook, nothing imo screws up new cooks more (and this can continue long after the cooks are no longer new) than a) feeling the need to temp the cooker in two places (grate and lid) and then, often, fretting about the difference, or fussing with grate probe placement and b) focusing on internal meat temp.
Whether meat cooks at 240 or 280 or 310 doesn't really matter. Whether one targets, say, 275 - but there are spikes to 325 or drops to 220 doesn't really matter. In ALL of these cases the ONLY thing affected is how long it will take the meat to cook to tender.
Getting your cooker going and shooting for some specific cooktemp target is fine. I used to say - out of deference to those that temp at the grate - that it didn't matter if you temped at grate or lid JUST PICK ONE PLACE. I don't necessarily think that it matters still - but I don't think that grate temping is actually terribly reliable. Too many variables at play - proximity of probe to meat, proximity of probe to grate edge, evenness of burn, whether water is used or not, whether ceramic is used or not, whether, if the probe is hung below the grate, moisture is dripping onto the probe. None of this matters when temping in a vent hole at the lid. It is simply, imo, the best place to check temp. (Whether the temp at the grate is more or less is UTTERLY immaterial.) It is, then, just a matter of working off that reading. I stick a therm in a vent hole. When I feel the need to monitor remotely - which is rare - I use my Mav and stick the probe in a vent hole. It's the most consistent place to check.
Neither knowing the lid temp (or grate temp) or the meat's internal temp or that this or that meat has cooked for this or that many hours will tell you whether the barbecue you're cooking is going to turn out spectacularly. Only focusing on the meat itself - how it looks, smells and feels - will tell you that. And it is this, imo, that needs to be the focus. Learn that - and this comes from doing - and you will cook all manner of barbecue at any possible temps in any possible cooker under any ambient conditions perfectly - every time.
When something doesn't come out well it is not (as you might read here and elsewhere) that the cook had a 'stubborn butt', or 'bad ribs' - or any other such nonsense. If the meat didn't come out well the problem is the cook, not the meat - and the problem arises from not focusing on the main point - how the meat should look, smell and feel when it comes off the cooker.
This is pretty easy. Where it seems difficult - and how it is often unnecessarily complicated - is because of all this intervening stuff (temps and temp swings; spikes and drops; times per pound; internal temps, etc., etc. - that make it seem like good barbecue is all about focusing on this stuff and not about focusing on the results.
I'm not ranting here (really!
) Temp where you wish (you've heard my suggestion; the choice is yours) but do yourself a favor: Use whatever methods you wish that you know, read or have told to you. Try different things. But always focus on the meat. It will tell you when it is tender. By doing this you'll get your food to where you want it to be sooner and with much less hassle and worrying.
Regardless, and regardless of the temps at which you choose to cook, nothing imo screws up new cooks more (and this can continue long after the cooks are no longer new) than a) feeling the need to temp the cooker in two places (grate and lid) and then, often, fretting about the difference, or fussing with grate probe placement and b) focusing on internal meat temp.
Whether meat cooks at 240 or 280 or 310 doesn't really matter. Whether one targets, say, 275 - but there are spikes to 325 or drops to 220 doesn't really matter. In ALL of these cases the ONLY thing affected is how long it will take the meat to cook to tender.
Getting your cooker going and shooting for some specific cooktemp target is fine. I used to say - out of deference to those that temp at the grate - that it didn't matter if you temped at grate or lid JUST PICK ONE PLACE. I don't necessarily think that it matters still - but I don't think that grate temping is actually terribly reliable. Too many variables at play - proximity of probe to meat, proximity of probe to grate edge, evenness of burn, whether water is used or not, whether ceramic is used or not, whether, if the probe is hung below the grate, moisture is dripping onto the probe. None of this matters when temping in a vent hole at the lid. It is simply, imo, the best place to check temp. (Whether the temp at the grate is more or less is UTTERLY immaterial.) It is, then, just a matter of working off that reading. I stick a therm in a vent hole. When I feel the need to monitor remotely - which is rare - I use my Mav and stick the probe in a vent hole. It's the most consistent place to check.
Neither knowing the lid temp (or grate temp) or the meat's internal temp or that this or that meat has cooked for this or that many hours will tell you whether the barbecue you're cooking is going to turn out spectacularly. Only focusing on the meat itself - how it looks, smells and feels - will tell you that. And it is this, imo, that needs to be the focus. Learn that - and this comes from doing - and you will cook all manner of barbecue at any possible temps in any possible cooker under any ambient conditions perfectly - every time.
When something doesn't come out well it is not (as you might read here and elsewhere) that the cook had a 'stubborn butt', or 'bad ribs' - or any other such nonsense. If the meat didn't come out well the problem is the cook, not the meat - and the problem arises from not focusing on the main point - how the meat should look, smell and feel when it comes off the cooker.
This is pretty easy. Where it seems difficult - and how it is often unnecessarily complicated - is because of all this intervening stuff (temps and temp swings; spikes and drops; times per pound; internal temps, etc., etc. - that make it seem like good barbecue is all about focusing on this stuff and not about focusing on the results.
I'm not ranting here (really!
Thanks Kevin. I now understand why my last turkey (23 pounds) got cooked sooner than I expected. I was using the "grate temp" as a guide but now realize the probe was probably too close to that large bird and gave unreliable temps. I will use vent temp in future! Thanks and Merry Christmas.
Ray
Ray
Lew Newby
R.I.P. 1/26/2024
Kevin, I love reading your "not rants". What you say makes perfect sense, intellectually, and hopefully before I die I'll get to that point. I have embraced your "cook to tender" guidance and it has made me better.
But - when I was learning to land on Aircraft Carriers back in the dark ages I used every little crutch I had been taught in order to arrive safely at the right spot on the deck. After I had a few hundred landings under my belt I had developed a feel for the process and developed new cues for a successful approach.
With each cook I get under my belt I learn a little more about how to get it right despite what the thermometer says. I know I'll never be as good as many of you on this forum but I'll keep trying, learning, and practicing. Did I say practicing?
You said "Learn that - and this comes from doing - and you will cook all manner of barbecue at any possible temps in any possible cooker under any ambient conditions perfectly - every time." My emphasis That's dead on. It takes practice and, for me, a willingness to let go (reluctantly) of the crutches.
But - when I was learning to land on Aircraft Carriers back in the dark ages I used every little crutch I had been taught in order to arrive safely at the right spot on the deck. After I had a few hundred landings under my belt I had developed a feel for the process and developed new cues for a successful approach.
With each cook I get under my belt I learn a little more about how to get it right despite what the thermometer says. I know I'll never be as good as many of you on this forum but I'll keep trying, learning, and practicing. Did I say practicing?
You said "Learn that - and this comes from doing - and you will cook all manner of barbecue at any possible temps in any possible cooker under any ambient conditions perfectly - every time." My emphasis That's dead on. It takes practice and, for me, a willingness to let go (reluctantly) of the crutches.
If you choose to temp through the lid vent, be sure that the probe is in the same position and depth each time.
I like to use a thermometer in the vent because it gives me a clue what my smoker is doing. Thanks to advice from folks like Kevin I don't obsess over 10 or 20 degrees. However, there's a big difference between 250 and 400, I like to know what ballpark I'm in.
As far as meat thermometers go, I think it is important to know the temp of a turkey breast and similar low-fat proteins that can be damaged by excessive temperatures. On the other hand a boston butt will tell you when it's done. A thermometer in low and slow BBQ only gives you a rough indication of how much longer you need to cook.
I like to use a thermometer in the vent because it gives me a clue what my smoker is doing. Thanks to advice from folks like Kevin I don't obsess over 10 or 20 degrees. However, there's a big difference between 250 and 400, I like to know what ballpark I'm in.
As far as meat thermometers go, I think it is important to know the temp of a turkey breast and similar low-fat proteins that can be damaged by excessive temperatures. On the other hand a boston butt will tell you when it's done. A thermometer in low and slow BBQ only gives you a rough indication of how much longer you need to cook.
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Agreed. For turkey, pork tenderloin, say, or chicken breasts or burgers - just to name a few examples - one should rely on a good tip-sensitive thermometer becasue one is cooking to a safe temp at minimum. Barbecue is taken well past safe temps.
Thank you Lew. As I think I said in a different thread on a similar subject: If one wants to temp internals when cooking barbecue, go ahead. I don't because imo it tells you nothing, but it is certainly okay to do so. Internal temp can tell you when you've hit done on a chicken breast or pork loin but it will not tell you when you've hit tender on a brisket, rack of ribs or chuck roll. If one wants that information, fine, but for barbecue internal temp should not be the focus.
I don't always bother but I usually like knowing the cooktemp as well, so I temp at the vent. Within reason, cooktemp doesn't matter much either. High temps or temp spikes will not 'make meat dry', as one often sees feared, and drops only mean the cook might take longer.
The operative focus - in terms of great results - should always be tenderness. If one focuses on what the meat looks, smells and feels like, and then what the results are when it is served, and then tweaks, if necessary, based on those factors, adding or cutting the cook time as desired. in order to alter those factors a bit, one can more readily hone in on what 'perfect' is, in a much shorter period of time.
Thank you Lew. As I think I said in a different thread on a similar subject: If one wants to temp internals when cooking barbecue, go ahead. I don't because imo it tells you nothing, but it is certainly okay to do so. Internal temp can tell you when you've hit done on a chicken breast or pork loin but it will not tell you when you've hit tender on a brisket, rack of ribs or chuck roll. If one wants that information, fine, but for barbecue internal temp should not be the focus.
I don't always bother but I usually like knowing the cooktemp as well, so I temp at the vent. Within reason, cooktemp doesn't matter much either. High temps or temp spikes will not 'make meat dry', as one often sees feared, and drops only mean the cook might take longer.
The operative focus - in terms of great results - should always be tenderness. If one focuses on what the meat looks, smells and feels like, and then what the results are when it is served, and then tweaks, if necessary, based on those factors, adding or cutting the cook time as desired. in order to alter those factors a bit, one can more readily hone in on what 'perfect' is, in a much shorter period of time.