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Rick Garcia
11-09-2008, 09:50 AM
For my Pizza Fix I am thinking a buying a Bread Machine(BM) to mix the Pasta. I already have a Hamilton Beach Standing Mixer and a Whisk, but for some reason I want to add a BM to by BBQ arsenal for making my life more simpler. I am wanting your recommendations and/or commments on a BM.

Rick

WSM, OTG 22 1/2" with Smokenator

Shawn W
11-09-2008, 10:38 AM
Hi Rick,

I have had a couple Black and Decker 2lb vertical bread machines over about 8 years IIRC and I love them to death. Unfortunately I don't think they are making them any more, but I'll mention what I liked about them and perhaps that will be of some help.

If I've had more than one what is so great about them you might ask? Well, it gets used in my house almost every day, twice some days. We stopped buying store bought sliced bread. We still buy fancy loaves, buns and so on, though you can use the thing for dough and make great buns too. The machines have saved me hundreds of dollars over the years, there were 6 people in the house, lots of toast and work/school sandwiches to be made. Nothing like getting up in the morning to the smell of fresh bread in the house either.

I like the vertical loaves too .. they are practical (though some seem to find them less visually appealing). Another cool feature is the timer. You set it for when you want the bread done and IT figures out when to start. It blew me away, what a brilliant idea ... instead of making you figure out what time to start (like every other appliance timer out there) so that 3:50 later your bread is done, they made the machine do the math!

The only problem I have ever had is the pan warping around the gasket at the bottom and subsequently leaking, but that was user error. Too much messing around with whole grain flours, multigrain recipes causing too thick of dough and too much torque. The replacement pan was like $30 less than a new unit so just bought new unit, the other still works fine and is in storage for parts. I recently found an unused (or nearly so) at a second hand store for $20! and snapped it right up.

Having said that I am distrustful of these new horizontal two paddle units. Twice the moving parts means twice the potential for mechanical failure.

Bill Hays
11-09-2008, 10:53 AM
That's a very interesting and informative write-up, Shawn. I had been thinking about getting a new, horizontal model. We don't use ours nearly as often as you do yours and I think I'll keep it a while longer. Thanks http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Bill

Shawn W
11-09-2008, 11:17 AM
np Bill

One other thing about two paddle horizontal: it will mean roughly 1/3 of your loaf if sliced horizontally will have a hole at the bottom, on a vertical unit only the bottom slice or two has a paddle void.

'Distrustfull' might be too strong a word, it just seems the paddle mechanisms and the paddle shaft holes in the pan are the weakest links of these machines, so why increase possiblity of failure ... why did they have to mess with a good thing?

When I said I thought vertical loaves were practical I meant that the slices are square instead cross-section-of-a-barn-shape. Square sandwiches fit nicely in square sandwich containers etc.

I am fully satisifed I got my money's worth from these machines.

Here is a recent pic of a loaf from the machine, it was an egg bread with cinnamon:

http://members.shaw.ca/shawn.white/img/BBQ/other/2008-10-22BP/2008-10-22a001.jpg

Bill Hays
11-09-2008, 03:35 PM
That's a beaut, Shawn! And, I knew what you meant by "practical". http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif I had been thinking about "how the loaf looks" and not the practicality or potential issues with the machine. And I never thought about the 2nd void in the loaf.

Thanks again. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bill

Dudley Rose
11-09-2008, 05:25 PM
Rick,

I've founf the Zojirushi just about unbeatable for all kinds of dough. You won't need to worry about the paddles leaving voids if you are using the machine only to knead the dough. I hardly ever bake anything in it, but I knead everything in it, and I wouldn't live without it. Hope that helps.


Originally posted by Rick Garcia:
For my Pizza Fix I am thinking a buying a Bread Machine(BM) to mix the Pasta. I already have a Hamilton Beach Standing Mixer and a Whisk, but for some reason I want to add a BM to by BBQ arsenal for making my life more simpler. I am wanting your recommendations and/or commments on a BM.

Rick

WSM, OTG 22 1/2" with Smokenator

Bryan S
11-09-2008, 06:58 PM
Many Bread machines now days have an alarm so you can remove the paddle before baking to eliminate the void. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Shawn W
11-10-2008, 01:22 AM
Originally posted by Bryan S:
Many Bread machines now days have an alarm so you can remove the paddle before baking to eliminate the void. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Day in and day out would you really want to: get up when the 'remove paddles' bell sounds, wash your hands, stick one hand underneath, lift up, fiddle with removing the paddles with your other hand, set the dough back down, wash your hands again, then resume your life?

Secondly, I use the timer function to have the bread ready when I wake up. I'm not interested in getting up an hour earlier (prior to bake cycle starting) to do all of the above just to remove the paddle voids.

My machine has no timer for dough. It's instead: add ingrediants, start now. A timer for dough completion time would be nice (delay timer for my loaves is 13hrs, why not dough?).

Ken_K
11-10-2008, 05:05 AM
Originally posted by Bryan S:
Many Bread machines now days have an alarm so you can remove the paddle before baking to eliminate the void. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Yes I did that for a while and was very happy with the results. Then the thought occured to me that since I was already handling the dough that I ought to just shape it then let it do another rise and bake it off in the oven which gives it a much more pleasing shape. So now my bread machine is pretty much an automated mixer/kneader, which works out great.

D. L. Whitehead
11-10-2008, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by Ken_K:
Yes I did that for a while and was very happy with the results. Then the thought occured to me that since I was already handling the dough that I ought to just shape it then let it do another rise and bake it off in the oven which gives it a much more pleasing shape. So now my bread machine is pretty much an automated mixer/kneader, which works out great.

Like Ken, I sometimes use the bread machine to do a mix/knead/initial rise. Then, I remove the dough, shape and let rise again. Sometimes, the dough goes into a bread pan and is baked in the oven. Sometimes, I shape the dough and bake on a baking sheet. Sometimes I make bread with instant yeast. Sometimes I make sourdough bread. Shown, below, is a small loaf of sourdough partially made in the bread machine.

First, I mix a small amount of sourdough starter with some flour and water and let this rise. I simply do this in a bowl and let it set for a few hours covered on the counter or on top of the refrigerator for the first ferment. Then, I add this first ferment to the bread machine pan (AKA ABM).

http://bike4two.googlepages.com/1st_Ferment_Added_To_Pan.JPG
First ferment added to the ABM.

http://bike4two.googlepages.com/Lecithin_Oil_Added.jpg
A blend of 10% liquid lecithin and 90% peanut oil is added to the first ferment.

http://bike4two.googlepages.com/Flour_Added.jpg
Flour added along with a bit of salt.

http://bike4two.googlepages.com/Loaded_ABM.jpg
Ready for the dough-only cycle in the ABM.

http://bike4two.googlepages.com/Kneaded_Bread.jpg
Dough after kneading by ABM.

http://bike4two.googlepages.com/Doubled_In_Size.jpg
Dough doubled in size after initial rise in ABM. With sourdough, most times, I unplug the ABM and let the dough continue to rise after the dough-only cycle in the ABM. I usually have pretty good starters, but they are not as fast as today's instant yeasts. When doubled, the dough is removed and shaped for its second rise.

http://bike4two.googlepages.com/Shaped_And_In_Final_Rise.jpg
Shaped dough partially through its final rise.

http://bike4two.googlepages.com/Done.jpg
Baked in the Oven. Good tasting, but not my best effort in loaf shaping...

Some of the advantages to using the ABM to mix/knead/rise the dough is it allows me to do other things while the ABM works away. Also, for me, there is less cleanup needed with the ABM versus kneading by hand or kneading with the KitchenAid.

###

Bill Hays
11-10-2008, 01:53 PM
Well, I just had to make a loaf of plain ole white bread today! http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/2906/img2008111004702aece9.jpg

Bill

D. L. Whitehead
11-10-2008, 03:32 PM
Looks great Bill! Is there any left to share?

###

Bill Hays
11-10-2008, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by D. L. Whitehead:
Looks great Bill! Is there any left to share?

###
Just the head and the butt ... http://bestsmileys.com/thinking/6.gif My wife just got home and she's going to town on it ..... http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Thanks for the inspiration! http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bill

Ken_K
11-11-2008, 04:44 AM
Originally posted by Bill Hays:
Just the head and the butt ... http://bestsmileys.com/thinking/6.gif My wife just got home and she's going to town on it ..... http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Thanks for the inspiration! http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bill

It's hard to resist that smell of fresh baked bread...there's just something magical the way butter melts on a hot slice of fresh bread... http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bryan S
11-11-2008, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by Shawn W:
I have had a couple Black and Decker 2lb vertical bread machines over about 8 years IIRC and I love them to death. Unfortunately I don't think they are making them any more
Shawn, This is about the only vertical BM out there. There's a mini BM that makes a 1lb loaf that I think is ver. Allmost all the BM are horizontal 1 or 2 paddle models these days. My Breadman Ultimate BM is a horizontal, 1 paddle. You have to scrape the corners during the knead cycle or you'll have flour left in the coners though. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif The main reason I bought it was for the sourdough cycle it has. You can program the ferment for 2-48 hrs. Here's the link to the B&D vertical machine. (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000MIM030/tvwb-20)
EDIT: Just pulled a 2lb. loaf out of the Breadman. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-2/947456/Bread0001.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-2/947456/Bread0002.jpg

Shawn W
11-11-2008, 08:48 PM
That loaf looks great! I like the nice smooth finish on the top (it's not all bumpy or lumpy). Mine never misses the corners, but it's a smaller surface area around the paddle. Your loaf does look nicer than what comes out of my machine though.

Sourdough cycle? sweet!

Ken_K
11-12-2008, 03:57 AM
Okay you guys are killing me here. My bread machine has been packed up since we moved this summer. Now I'm going to have to get it out this weekend! http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

M_Kuharious
11-12-2008, 10:24 AM
Man thems look good. So which one would you all recommend since more than likely not be able to find a vertical one. Thinking one might be on the x-mas list.

Shawn W
11-12-2008, 10:29 AM
I would take a good look at Bryan's Breadman Ultimate if I were I the market again. That is a fine looking loaf, I like the idea of a single paddle and the sourdough cycle. Bryan usually researches his purchases so it's probably a great unit.

So Bryan, would you buy that one again or a different one?

Ken_K
11-12-2008, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by M_Kuharious:
Man thems look good. So which one would you all recommend since more than likely not be able to find a vertical one. Thinking one might be on the x-mas list.

The one I have is a Sunbeam vertical loaf 2lb model that I picked up at Wal-Mart for like $50 a few years ago. As far as I know they still have them there. I have used the heck out of it and it's still going strong -- quite happy with it.

Actually D.L. Whitehead's machine looks almost exactly like mine, just looks like a different brand name on it.

Shawn W
11-12-2008, 01:57 PM
I'm trying to make Bryan's pizza dough in my bread machine ATM and I'm wish I had more manual control. There is just one 2hr dough cycle on mine, then end, take it or leave it.

It starts out with a 30 minute gentle warming of the ingrediants. For making this cold ferment pizza dough I wish I could turn the prewarm off.

It would be nice if one could manually turn it on to stir (a slow pulse), mix/knead (constant paddle spinning) as well.

Ooh, if I could tell it how long to mix for that would be sweet!

Bryan S
11-12-2008, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by Shawn W:
So Bryan, would you buy that one again or a different one?
Shawn, I would buy it again. While the flour in the corners is minimal, it's a great machine. You just have so many options with this machine, to me the flour in the corners is trivial. Not a big deal if your awake to scrape it out during the first mix/knead cycle. I've never used the delay timmer so no biggie for me. I can do a dough only cycle or a bake only cycle, 3 different loaf sizes, 1.5, 2 and 2.5lb loafs. The sour dough cycle, super rapid cycle, makes a loaf in about an hr, jams etc. a fruit and nut disspenser, A 6 personal favorite recipes cycle that stores your recipes and you can pull them up on the LCD screen, plus all the recipes that are stored in the machine you can pull up also. It has all the bells and whistles on it, and I'm still figuring it out. The one I have is the Breadman TR4000, which they no longer make. It's prob 4-5 years old by now. The loaf I made yesterday was a 2lb loaf that measured 6.5" tall and was made with the Ceresota AP flour I use for my pizza dough, but that flour has a high gluten content for an AP flour, over 12% IIRC. I didn't have any Bread flour on hand. I can't imagine using bread flour and making a 2.5 lb loaf, it would be huge.

Tom Chips
11-13-2008, 02:20 PM
Let me ask you guys this, if it were not for the delay timers, would you really find something like this useful enough to take up more counter/shelf space?

My 500W KA mixer will do all the kneading work for me, then I can bake it in my oven, in whatever shape I choose, on my stone, or in a loaf pan.

I had one that I put out for pick up, simply cause I never used it. It was given to me years ago, I think I used it twice, maybe three times tops.

Bryan S
11-13-2008, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by Tom Chips:
Let me ask you guys this, if it were not for the delay timers, would you really find something like this useful enough to take up more counter/shelf space?
Tom, I use mine when I have other things to do or just feeling lazy. I make bread with my KA mixer as well. Think of a Bread machine like the BBQ Guru. I don't use it all the time, but sure glad I have it when I need it. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Mine's going full tilt as I type this. Making a specialty bread tonight. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Bill Hays
11-13-2008, 03:42 PM
I use mine mainly for bread loaves so using a bread maker just makes sense to me. Less work and less clean-up this way too. And, it does a pretty good job.

Bill

Ken_K
11-14-2008, 05:59 AM
Originally posted by Tom Chips:
Let me ask you guys this, if it were not for the delay timers, would you really find something like this useful enough to take up more counter/shelf space?

My 500W KA mixer will do all the kneading work for me, then I can bake it in my oven, in whatever shape I choose, on my stone, or in a loaf pan.

I had one that I put out for pick up, simply cause I never used it. It was given to me years ago, I think I used it twice, maybe three times tops.

If I had a KA mixer I'd probably use it more than the ABM. Although I do have a pretty much fool-proof basic white bread recipe that I can just toss in the machine and have a perfectly fine hot loaf of bread in about 3 hours without having to touch it. It's nice to have that kind of set-it-and-forget-it convenience for only about 60 bux. http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

P Bart
11-24-2008, 07:54 PM
I know the original post was about using a bread machine to mix pizza dough, but the thread evolved into a general bread machine discussion, so I'll add this.

Put away your bread machine, and get a dutch oven (cast iron or ceramic) and look up the "No Knead Bread Recipe".

It makes amazing "artisan" style bread with no kneading or other effort whatsoever, with a very thick, beautiful, crunchy crust.

You will madly impress anyone who sees your loaves as well - they make you look like a wizard of bread.

M_Kuharious
12-22-2008, 11:19 AM
Ya-hoo, my Christmas wish came through. the in laws picked me up a nice looking Cuisinart 2lb bread maker. i make some sourdough bread from a box they gave me. any place you recommend getting recipes? what should i try next? btw the bread was pretty good, but had kind of funky after taste. thinking it was they kind of mix.