Who makes the BEST knives?


 
j- Use your 240mm on a bunch of long, narrow vegs that need to be cut or sliced but where fine precision cutting isn't necessary - celery or carrots for stock, say, or leeks for a sauté, or trimming the ends from a whole pile of asparagus. You'll get more used to it that way, but unless your hands are especially large it is not likely to become a go-to knife.
Click to expand...

hehe, 5 min prior to reading your post, I pulled it out on some veggies for a pot of black bean soup (onion, carrots, celery, serranos...). It actually wasn't too bad size-wise, it certainly was SCREAMINGLY sharp which didn't hurt.
 
You really should go to a knife shop and see what feels comfortable.

As for my personal recommendation: Global G-2 chefs knife.

I tried it out along with a shun, and Wusthof Grand Prix. I loved how light the Global is. It goes through everything like warm butter. Pretty amazing.

A word on knife sharpeners: I have an Edge Pro Apex which is fanstastic, but even with decently regular use, I don't have to sharpen more than once in a while. That being said, a good ceramic steel is absolutely vital. My G-2 will go from being so-so, to literally razor sharp. No jokes.
 
So...

Weighed slightly more than the Global and priced significantly cheaper, here's are my knives:

Tojiro DP Santoku 6.4" & Gyutou 8.2"

Tojiro%20Knives%202.JPG
 
What are the angles on the Apex's? These are recommended quite a bit by knifenuts for those who want a system.

But once you get hooked on the sharp edges of your knife, as you are visiting a BBQ forum I'd assume some of you (not all) will get hooked on the screaming edges you can put on your knives. There was a recent thread where the discussion was how low everyone was getting their knives. Some suspect they were getting their carbon knives into single digits, 7-8 degrees per side.

VG10 knives were safely taken down to 10-11 degrees per side. That's ridiculous! But I'd imagine scary sharp. I read an anecdotal story somewhere about a guy cutting his herbs and not having it brown hours/or a day later. Not sure if that's true or not but a sharp edge can be fun.

Anyways, my point of all this is, while the factory edges on my knives are ok I'd like to take them further. So I'm starting off with a 1000 grit block (bester or shapton glass stone) and a guide. This guide:
http://www.japaneseknifesharpe...p?ProductCode=SupTog

And when I get the hang of things, I'll take off the training wheels (I mean guide) and take it lower. I think the owner of that site mentioned he believes on a regular sized knife the angle could be around 13 degrees give or take.

Don't forget to buy an end grain cutting block so you preserve your edges!
 
The Apex has markings at the 10, 15, 18, 21 and 24? points - but they're on a slider so one can stop anywhere in between, i.e., one isn't limited to those angles.
 
The Apex has markings at the 10, 15, 18, 21 and 24? points - but they're on a slider so one can stop anywhere in between, i.e., one isn't limited to those angles.
Click to expand...

nice, I've been meaning to find out what the colors designated, and wasn't sure if it was listed in the manual.

as far as angles go, the finer the egde the quicker it will dull. the idea is to find an angle that you are comfortable with in that it cuts effectively and requires sharpening with in a reasonable amout of use. As nice as the apex is, I'm not real keen on pulling it out everytime I need to use my knife.
 
You don't need to. That would be like pulling stones out every time. You only need to use the Apex (or stones) when you need to sharpen your knife. How often depends on how much you use the knife, how sharp you keep the edge and at what angle, ehat you've cutting with the knife - and on what surface, etc. Steeling between sharpenings is all that is necessary.

You are quite right: Knives should be sharpened to an angle that is appropriate for the steel hardness of the knife and how the knife will be most often used. I have some knives at 10?, others at 12.5, others at 15 and a couple at 18.
 
Darnit Kevin, you had to go and clarify so now, I guess I have another doohickey I want to buy then.
icon_biggrin.gif


I'd have to guess learning with stones is the best (reprofiling, fixing chips etc.) but the Apex sure is convenient. I guess you can put a low grit on there to do simple angle changing.

Found some custom stones for the Apex here:

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/edgepro.html

This may just be the ticket. Lots more money than I wanted to spend but to guarantee an even specified angle it may be worth it.
 
Buy the Apex 2. Ben with Apex said that is the kit designed for Chefs/ Kitchen cutlery. If you are going to order( apex or stones) do it with him, he is the inventor and deserves the profit. He is also a nice guy and very accessible. He took the time to explain the system in detail over the phone, actually called me back off his caller ID. I called did not leave a msg. and 2 min later the phone rings and it was him. after about 20 min I felt educated enough to go ahead and buy.
Thanks for all the knowledge KrugerSan your infinite wisdom enlightens us all.
 
The key to the best knives is really all in how it feels in your hand. I like a smaller bladed chef's knife vs. a huge 12" blade. I also prefer stiffer boning knives vs. the flimsy feeling fillet style. I have been gainfully employed in the industry for approx 18 years and I still prefer using my non name brand chef's knife made by either wusthoff or Henckel for a local merchant. Shun, Global and any of the high end Japanese knives are also very good but again it's all about how comfortable it feels in your hand.

I would recommend a fairly inexpensive mainstream Henckel or Wusthoff to begin with and as some time goes by, just use other knives as you get the chance to try them out. At that point you will have enough experience to know what you like and what companies provide you with your desired ideals.

What it all boils down to is how well the blade is balanced against the tang. How well the weight feels in your grip and whether or not you personally like to use that particular knife. Most high end and mainstream companies use very high quality steel so the rest of the decision is left to the user.

Good luck!! and KEEP YOUR FINGER TIPS CURLED IN AGAINST THE TIP OF YOUR THUMB!!!!
wsmsmile8gm.gif
 
Though I'd agree that the way a knife feels in the hand is a key consideration, I'd disagree that 'it's all about' feel.

Steel composition varies, even among high end makers, as does manufacturing. The Japanese have a different approach. The steel composition is such that the knives are harder; they can be thinner, and are made without bolsters, meaning they are significantly lighter (another critical factor for professionals as well as avid home cooks); and because of the hardness they can hold an edge longer. They can also be honed to a higher level of sharpness than many European knives. All of this is why I switched from German knives to Japanese back in the 80s.

I think another consideration is how - and how often (frequency and duration) - one cooks.
 
Originally posted by K Kruger:
Though I'd agree that the way a knife feels in the hand is a key consideration, I'd disagree that 'it's all about' feel.

Steel composition varies, even among high end makers, as does manufacturing. The Japanese have a different approach. The steel composition is such that the knives are harder; they can be thinner, and are made without bolsters, meaning they are significantly lighter (another critical factor for professionals as well as avid home cooks); and because of the hardness they can hold an edge longer. They can also be honed to a higher level of sharpness than many European knives. All of this is why I switched from German knives to Japanese back in the 80s.

I think another consideration is how - and how often (frequency and duration) - one cooks.
Click to expand...

Yes the folding technique of the orients is very nice for the steel tempering but honestly as one who is about to enter into the culinary professional industry Chuck would probably not be able to tell the difference if his knife loses its edge sooner then later.

But... that is a good point Oriental steel has been around for A LONG *** TIME.

Then again they switched from steel to ceramics for many things.
 
but honestly as one who is about to enter into the culinary professional industry Chuck would probably not be able to tell the difference if his knife loses its edge sooner then later.
Click to expand...
Possibly true now, but it shouldn't be for long. Culinary programs, at the beginning, are nothing if not endless knife work. All of the culinary school grads who applied to work in one of my kitchens had very good knife skills. (I rarely hired grads though; the couple or three I did I didn't keep.) With all the hours spent in school knife-in-hand, it would be worth trying knives from many manufacturers for feel, balance and weight, and selecting those that feel best, and then culling out those that are likely to require more frequent sharpening. The result is likely to be a bit spendy but, since substantial knife work time will be required, well worth it, imo.
 
Originally posted by K Kruger:
Steeling between sharpenings is all that is necessary.
Click to expand...

And by steeling, you mean the hand honing done with steel rod, like the one I have (Henckel) and have used prior...?
 
For Japanese knives use a ceramic or ultra-fine diamond steel. Though steel steels are not recommended for Japanese knives, I've come to a point where I see no reason for this - but make it a smooth steel, not one that is in any way textured.

I do one of two things. I have knives that travel with me and knives in Fla and Okla. (I switch them out when at one place or the other.) I carry a ceramic on the road but no metal steel. I have smooth metal steels and diamond steels in both homes. On the road, I periodically lightly steel with the ceramic. If the knife is heavily used this might occur more frequently but the touch is light. At one home or the other I usually use the smoth steel for a couple or three sessions (these are brief) and then switch to a diamond or ceramic. I get good longevity between sharpenings this way - and I am very hard on knives.

A couple notes: I always lightly finish my edges immediately after sharpening by using a ceramic. Just a couple passes each side. Later, irrespective of the steel used, I always use a light touch and just a few passes. It's not necessary to carry on endlessly. Both ceramic and diamond steels do remove metal (so they actually sharpen) but by keeping a light touch this is not a concern with Japanese knives.

One other thing: When it comes to sharpening, it is not necessary to sharpen with progressively finer stones to the point of a highly polished finish. Fine for some knives or actual razor blades, but it is not warranted (nor desirable) for most kitchen knives.
 
For Japanese knives use a ceramic or ultra-fine diamond steel. Though steel steels are not recommended for Japanese knives, I've come to a point where I see no reason for this - but make it a smooth steel, not one that is in any way textured.
Click to expand...

I read that a coarse steel will chip the harder japanese steel. I plan to replace my grooved steel steel, but in the meantime I haven't encountered any damage.

One other thing: When it comes to sharpening, it is not necessary to sharpen with progressively finer stones to the point of a highly polished finish. Fine for some knives or actual razor blades, but it is not warranted (nor desirable) for most kitchen knives.
Click to expand...

this seems to be another area of debate: micro-serrations vs polishing. I don't recall the exact particulars, but I think it has to do with the perceived effectiveness of the edge. Polished edges don't feel as aggressive as one that's not polished. I do know that the author of The Edge in the Kitchen came out in favor of polishing your edge.

The same author describes a technique that uses extremely fine grit sandpaper designed for automotive finishes that can be used on top of a mouse pad. If done correctly, one can create not only a polished edge but a concave one too,due to the way the mouse pad flexes.

as far as german vs japanese. One of the big upsides for me is the lack of a bolster with japanese knives. it makes them easier to sharpen and reduces overall weight.
 
Japanese knife steel is often harder than the steel used for steel steels. That said, because Japanese knives are sharpened to a more acute angle the edges are thinner than their German counterparts, yes, it is possible to chip them using a grooved steel. Use a smooth one, light touch, few strokes.

Highly polished edges don't slice as well. One can feel it. The edge will feel extremely sharp but the knife won't seem to slice as well as it should - one especially notices this on skins, like tomato or bell pepper. There is insufficient grip. Fine for direct (i.e., perpendicular) cutting. Not for slicing. (I'm surprised the author supported polished. The difference feels so obvious to me.) Anyway, a ceramic or diamond will scratch the edge just enough to give it better bite.

I'm with you on the bolsters: once I switched to bolsterless Japanese knives I never looked back.
 
Originally posted by Chuck Piercy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">(I rarely hired grads though; the couple or three I did I didn't keep.)
Click to expand...
I think I know why Kevin but if you would,please explain your reasoning for not hiring culinary grads. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Nutshell: lack of innate talent.

Fleshed out: People can learn to cook very well, can learn excellent knife skills. Deep enthusiasm and passion for food and cooking cannot be taught. One has it or one doesn't. It's much more than loving to cook or loving food. I'd equate it to the singer or musician who was born with perfect pitch, or the people who can simply teach themselves to play whatever instrument they pick up, or like my 5th-grade classmate, Tommy Shearer (I'm amazed I remember the name!), children who can pick up a wad of clay and simply fashion it into any animal or object they want. (I remember Tommy making a diorama that included maybe 50 clay baboons, for a social studies project. He banged them out in less than 30 minutes and they were amazingly lifelike.) Though I learned the mechanics of how to do something like that, it would have taken me a week, and they would never have looked anywhere near as real. Tommy had an innate sophistication and skill. And that's what I look for. I can teach the skills if someone comes to me lacking those. If they have an innate food, flavor and cooking sense I will gladly do so, and have many times.

Most grads don't have that. There are many positions out there that are available to them, probably many more than are available under chefs like me (I know more than one successful corporate exec chef, none of whom I would place in the 'born with it' category). A few grads have it, but none ever walked into my kitchen at the right time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

 

Back
Top