Stubborn Shoulder (Picnic)


 
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Tom Ferguson

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I picked up a 9lb shoulder (picnic) at the local supermarket last week. This was the first one of these that I did.

It had a good sized fat cap on one side, going down and around the bone. Trimmed fairly easily, however.

I rubbed it with what is becoming on of my favorite rubs, Rub #1 from www.texasbbqrub.com, after slathering with plain yellow mustard.

I fired up the WSM using a full ring of briquets, a mixture of Kingsford and brand X. (Brand X because I got lazy - a mistake I won't soon repeat.) Used Minion Method with about 10 hot coals. Used water in the Brinkmann pan.

Put a 4 lb chuck roast (ala Stogie) on the bottom rack, with the picnic on the top. Temps went up steadily in the first 45 mins and reached 225 at the top grate. I closed the vents down (top open, two bottom closed, one bottom open) when the temps got to 180. Then I closed the one bottom vent to 1/3. It held between 220 and 235 all night.

The roast was done in 12 hours, so I removed it and put the picnic back on. At that point the picnic was at 165. It climbed to 270 and hung there for hours. (Magic "plateau" time /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

Well, 18 hours after I put it on, it was at 176. Grate temps were still at 225*. 20 hours it was still at 176*, same grate temp. At 22 hours, same. I needed my life back, so I took the picnic off, foiled it and put it in the oven at 250* for a couple of hours. It was at 185* then so I removed it, let it rest, and pulled it.

Everything came out great (thank you WSM and TVVB) and as usual I learned some things: First, the Brinkmann pan rocks! For those of you who use water and haven't tried this pan, spend the $14 bucks and give it a shot. Secondly, I'll never mess with brand X briquets again. While temps held fairly well, and they burned ok, what was missing was the ability at 18 hours into the cook to open everything up and jump the temp to 250 or 260. Kingsford always gives me that extra "boost".

Oh yeah, and finally, "It's done when it's done."
 
Interesting post, Tom. I think it points out something else that I've become convinced of - cooking butt is not always predictable. Maybe after doing this long enough, like the Legends, you can nail it every time, but I wonder. My theory is to allow ample time to spare, and just sit back and enjoy the ride.

I did two 7 lb butts over a 7 lb brisket using sand this weekend. Started at 7:00 p.m. and everything was stable around 250 by 9:00. No wind and warm, Florida night. Got up at 6:00 a.m. and butts were at 200. Brisket was done - well, a little over done. I will not do a brisket flat overnight again. Problem is I do all my butts overnight, so I won't have anything to baste the brisket. Guess I'll learn how to mop. As to the cook, there were no signs my temp got too high. Meat didn't appear to have an unusual amount of bark and the butts were very moist.

It's done when it's done and sometimes, not often, it's done before you think it will be. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Paul
 
Tom

Can you give us some more info on the Brinkman water pan, Thanks

Charlie /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
 
Charlie,

Here's a link to water pan modifications which is available on this site along with many other mods at the top of the page under "Tips & Mods". Enjoy. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
 
Charlie,

As Bill posted, there is a great write-up under Tips and Mods on this site.

I am still very much a newbie, having only had my WSM a few months. I read much on this site before ordering the WSM. This site has such a wealth of information and such helpful members, I'd venture to say the this is the single best site on the Internet devoted to one particular subject.

I don't want to get into the Sand vs Water in the pan debate. I'm not qualified to debate anything out here. I would offer my experiences, and you can take it from there. I have tried both sand and water, and I have had some relative success both ways. Given that everything else is equal, a WSM with water in the pan is going to run cooler than one with sand in the pan. No matter what kind of fire you have, no matter what the airflow, the water in the pan will always be no more than 212* (if altitude is at sea level). Having that much mass inside the smoker that stays at a constant temp or below, makes the temp of the WSM very stable. There is no limit as to how hot that sand can get (well there is, but I don't believe we can reach those temps in the WSM - the boiling point of silicon dioxide is 2230 Celsius). When I've used sand in the pan, for me the temp is more touchy. If you stay on top of it on the way up, you're ok. If you let it get higher than your target temp, it's a bear bringing it back down.

With water in the pan, the 212* temp above only holds true if there is still water in the pan, because at 212*, the water is going to evaporate. When this happens, no more constant temps. The Brinkmann pan doubles the capacity of the water. So you don't have to fill it as often as the Weber pan. It is also more stable in the cooker because it is bigger around and fits better on the brackets.

For people with more experience, I'm sure sand is great. I'm not entirely convinced that it isn't the best way. However, for me, being a newbie, I think using water is easier to control. That being said, I also believe that sand in the pan is a contributing factor to longer cooks. That sand can hold one heck of a lot of heat.

Cleanup is another matter. Sand is the winner hands-down there. But I don't find the cleanup of a water pan that much of a hassle. For me it's the dang grates that are a PITA.

Anyway, this is only my humble opinion, and all the usual YMMV disclaimers apply.
 
Hey Tom,
Would you eleborate on your adding of water to the brinkman pan-how much , how often on this cook.

On sand vs water, you are exactly right about watching as the temp rises. The attention it requires on the way up I guess offsets the minor hassels of having to check water....Thanks
 
Steve,

I filled the Brinkmann pan initially to within 2" of the top... Never had to add more. 22 hours, 220* - 235* all the time... no additional water.

Jim,

You know, I'm glad you said that. After I took it from the oven, I thought about exactly what you said.

Oh well, like I said, I'm still learning here. I was lucky again, since it came pretty good.

Thanks for your reply.
 
Did you have to refuel during the 22 hour cook ? What about getting up and checking during the night.

Thanks
 
That's a long burn time - maybe I'd better go back to water. I've never started with only 10 lit coals. I wonder if that could have extended the cook time ?
 
When I start with more, it definitely burns hotter and quicker. Thoughout my entire cook, it never exceeded 235*. Well, at least not in the time I was awake... Between 2 AM and 7 AM it could have gone up, but not more than 250* because that is where I had the ET-73 set.

Oh, and I tested the ET-73 after the cook. It was still on.

Warm Florida night, with no wind.
 
"Warm Florida night, no wind"...and a wisp of hickory. Sounds like a country music song.

22 hours with NO added charcoal and NO added water. Tom, you may have something with the 10 hot coals start. Maybe this this thing works like it was designed to.

Sometimes it even works with all our 'improvements'.
 
Tom

I'm still impressed and trying to better understand how you got the 22 hrs. Of course you did have ideal weather conditions. Did you start with tap water or warm or hot water ? Was your charcoal chamber "full to the rim" or over the top by mounding in the middle ? How often did you remove the lid ?

Last, and as a curiosity, do you think, given all equal factors and without regard to diffuclty of holding heat down, cooking with sand yields a longer, shorter or the same cook time ?

Thanks,

Paul
 
Paul,

I've been thinking about this and I think it was a combination of things, some right and some wrong. My charcoal ring had leftover coals from last weekend's cook. I dumped the ashes and saved the decent sized coals. Had about 1/3 a ring of Kingsford - that had been outside all week, moderate humidity.

I filled the ring level to the top with Brand X (Brand X being K-mart store brand) briquets. The 10 coals that I used to start were Kingsford (from the left over stuff). I stacked them to the side of Weber Chimney and lit them with a weber firestarter.

I think the fact that I only had a few coals, kept the temp down to 225 (for the most part)and had some "semi-damp" leftover coals contributed to the length of the cook. I doubt if I could have gotten the fire to go hotter if I needed it.

All in all, it was just a fluke.

As for whether I think the water or the sand will make for a longer burn, I'm not smart enough to answer that. My gut tells me the sand should hold longer, but then the water keeps the whole cooker cooler and maybe doesn't let the coals accelerate the burn. I just don't know.

I'm not advocating one over the other. I think we all need to evaluate that for ourselves, relying on each other experiences. Use what works for you and what you're comfortable with. The only thing I would recommend, though, is that if you are going to use water, definitely use the Brinkmann pan.
 
Tom

Thanks for the explanation. Obviously I'm having trouble getting these long burn times 16 hrs + or I wouldn't be asking so many questions. I really did switch over to sand thinking it might extend the burn time. Clean-up was not my real issue.

Burn time has got to be a variable of how fast the fuel is consumed. The hotter it gets, the quicker it must burn. My thought was that by keeping the waterpan full, the cooker is putting out more heat since the water won't let it get above a certain point. With sand there is no evaporation so you control the upward temp by limiting the heat. This is done by closing down vents. With the vents choked down, less oxygen is coming into the pit and the fire should be burning slower. If it burns slower, it should burn longer.

I'm sure there are other variables and I may be incorrect in some of my assumptions. At least that's why I switched, but I'm honestly not sure if it made much difference.

Paul
 
I know it's not traditional, but I was able to get 16 hours this weekend using the BBQ Guru. I did 2 4lb butts both on the top rack using the minion at approx. 225 on an overnight cook. This thing held dead on +/- 3*. I know how you felt Tom as I started the "long" plateau at 180* and it took almost 3 hrs to come up. At about the last hour I raised the temp to 235 and that was enough to push it over the edge (I think).
 
And, if I read it right, I believe the Mod page said to use a Brinkman 'charcoal' pan as the WSM water pan. If so, I found one here:

Brinkman Charcoal Pan

Is this the right one?
 
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