Starting Q restraunt questions

[Jeff T Miller]

Ok there is a thread in bbq section discussing people who own Q restraunts. In that thread there were a couple of people as well as myself saying a thread should be started for people who want to start up a restraunt.

Well I figured I might as well start the thread. Since I have a unique situation that is comming down the pike fast. I would like to ask some questions and get some input from those who do/have done the Q business.

My family built a public pool back in the 1940's. My dads uncle sold it in the 1970's. That guy sold it about 3 years ago. That person couldn't make it go and sold it to my dad a couple of months ago. My dad has no intention of opening up the pool. He wanted it back in the family and it is right next to main office.

This place sits in a small deep valley and has a large creek running through it and lots of trees. There are 5 shelter houses with picnic tables scattered about the lower part of the land and 3 more up on the ridge on the land up on top. There is also a large hall that is large and the prior owners rented out for company parties and wedding receptions.

I told my dad if he didn't find anyone that wanted to lease it from him that I would open it up for picnics and parties and such. I have had people we know call us up to make sure were opening the park because they have their family reunion there every year. The lady who just sold it built a nice little building that she did cooking for the catering she did and it has an nice big walk in cooler outside of that building. It is a very nice area, quiet and secluded.

I have no intention of opening the pool but I figure I will open the park and rent out the shelters. I figure I have that building there doing nothing I will set up wsm there on the weekends and always have some smoke in the air if you know what I mean.

I thought I would start off slow and have like BBQ pork and beef and just sell sandwiches and what ever I have on the wsm. I have a sign up by the road that I can advertise on.

The closest thing I have to restraunt experience is mess duty in the Marine Corps. Enought time that I knew that I never wanted to work in a restraunt. Well here it is 20 years later and I love to Q and want to share it with others.

I know this building was used before and should be easy to get the health inspection. What else do I need? Any points, comments, opinions, or suggestions are wanted.

Thanks. Sorry about being long winded.

 

[K Kruger]

I'm falling asleep at the keyboard but first, sounds like a great spot. Onward, as soon as possible you have to check with the city, county, or both (possibly the state, too) and get a handle on what you need legally. Health department contacts need to be made, you might need a C.O.from your city/county--some require a corporate seal, some a DBA, you'll have to find that out. If you know someone who owns a restaurant or the like, preferably in the same area, you might be able to ask them what they have--it varies state to state, within states, and sometimes even within counties. You need to check on fire code issues. You need to check on insurance/liability issues and requirements. Where I live now what you're talking about doing would not be difficult paperwork-wise. I have lived other places where it would be easier (again, just paperwork-wise) to open a sit-down restaurant, that particular area being very pissy about small set-ups.

This is top of my head at the moment. I'm really fried and have to get up early so...

 

[K Kruger]

Now that I'm awake: The big deal is whether the HD will allow you to use a home cooker in a commercial venture so that's where I'd start. They may just say no, not under any circumstances. They (along with the Fire Dept) may have requirements (which may or may not be rewasonable) to allow you to do so.

 

[Jeff T Miller]

Say it isn't so. I can't use my WSM?

Now what? I will definately have to ask that question. I was planning on using my wsm and maybe grow into a second one.

I just remembered it could get real interesting. The county line actually runs right down the middle of the place. I've got a couple of things to start with thanks Kevin.

 

[K Kruger]

Be prepared to be creative if you get stonewalled by the HD. Be very polite but many people in bureaucracies cannot think outside the box so you might need to for them. Know this: There are several open pit barbecue set-ups around the country that are generally larger than what you might have at home but they're open pits, certainly less contained in many ways than a WSM. The big deal is usually that the pit is 'covered' but of course many people do not want to cover their open pits. I have seen nothing more than suspended tarps be approved and I've seen more elaborate (but nothing dramatic) roofs be required. Your pit has a cover; that may be sufficient, might not. Be ready to make suggestions if need be, ramping up from least PITA to most PITA, as far as you're comfortable going. If necessary, be sure to mention that WSMs are used in comps all over the country. A lot will depend on who you're dealing with. And, of course, describe the nature of what your plans are--that there is a need and a calling at this wonderful location for your wonderful food--you have to gauge what you say, and how much and how you say it, by the read you get from the person you're speaking with. Go in person. Don't do this on the phone.

Another requirement might be--or another thing you might need to suggest if things aren't going your way--is that you plan a structure/fence/divider/something-or-other to separate your cooking area from the public. Suprisingly, this is not always required but often is. Be prepared to go there if you need to and decide ahead of time how far you'll go with that if they don't throw specific requirements at you (again, from least PITA for you to most). Be aware that, depending on your county and how they do things, you may very well need to run everything past the FD as well so keep that in mind in terms of fire-safe materials. You, of course, will note that you have fire extinguishers (ABC) at the ready, a first aid kit, etc.

Concurrent issues, or ones likely to come up next if you've gotten this far, will be food storage (both fresh and grocery items), food prep (including the prep area), and food service (how will the food be served, how will heat be maintained for hot food, cold be maintained for cold food), sanitation (how will utensils and your hands be cleaned--is there hot and cold running water?), and so forth. Be ready for all of that.

 

[Jeff T Miller]

First I will have to figure out which county I have to go to. The county line I referenced earlier. More of the land is in Montgomery county but I think all the buildings are in Miami county.

My dad owns a construction company and deals with the health department on a regular basis in both counties. That will help getting to the right person if nothing else.

While I have to get a couple of refrigerators there is water bathrooms the whole deal. The prior owner used the building for catering. So it has passed inspecton before. The only difference being I am using wsm and such to cook with. Hey now that I think about it the Miami County Fair has a pork chop consession every year that is all open. Just a box that holds charcoal and steel grates. Nothing at all over the top.

It is a really nice day here today I am thinking about going out today and get some pics of the place so I can show everyone.

I got to get out of here and get to sams. I was there last night they were out of butts. They said the truck would be in early this morning. I would hate to see them run out before I get there. Man is it a beauuutiful day here in Tipp City today.

 

[Harold Groetsema]

First off, even tho WSM's are great Smokers they are not for the restaurant business. You won't have time to watch them and do what we do when we smoke. Your best off with a smoker that has a heat and hold function. Look into a cook shack or a southern pride. Secondly be prepared for long long hours, and if you hire employees, you will forever be a babysitter. Trust me its from alot of experience. either way good luck

 

[Jeff T Miller]

Hey Harold thanks for the info I will definately check them out.

After looking through my earler posts it seems I left out some important information. I only plan on serving Q on the weekends while the picnicing is going on. Hopefully word of mouth will bring in more. I guess it would be more like consession. Maybe even move on to some catering.

Nothing a wsm or 2 couldn't handle for a while.

 

[Jeff T Miller]

Well finally talked to a guy at the health department the other day. I got some good scoop.

It falls into a couple of catagories. I will start with the equipment. First there is a walk in cooler outside the door of the building. I am not sure if it is a fridge or freezer. I haven't had time to look but I think it can be either. Just set the temp. Anyhow the fridge or freezer I have in the building has to be commercial. He said it recovers from door opening faster which makes sense to me. The building doesn't have a stove and he said it has to be commercial which doesn't make sense to me. I figure the only thing I will use it for is to reheat meat in a foodsaver bag. I don't see why commercial is necessecary. I didn't ask because I had spent probobly 30 asking him other questions. The funny thing is I am allowed to use my wsm for smokin. Then he says but you won't want to use it. You can't cook enough meat on it. He goes on how he has a smoker at home (probobly a brinkman)

.

The other thing we talked about is prep and cooking and meat temp. The temps for removing meat is higher than what the health dept requires at least for beef and pork. The thing he got picky about is cooling. He said once the meat reaches 130 degrees that it should get to refrigeration temps in a short amount of time. He never actually gave me a specific amout of time but said that a brisket or butt would not cool fast enough to meet their specs whole. So I figure I will pull or slice and pack into smaller food saver bags so it will cool faster.

He had inspected the building I am using when the other people owned it so he acted like it should be ok. It has a triple sink for dishes and a food prep sink. I think the only problem I am going to have is a commercial oven. Actually that isn't a proboblem. I am just willing to bet a commercial will cost 3x as much as a regular.

 

[K Kruger]

Howdy Jeff--

Fridge: Possible it could be set to be either a fridge or freezer, but possibly not. Considering its location my guess is it's a fridge. If you're lucky the compressor will have a set-knob with actual temp settings on it and you can see its range. If not, you'll have to crank it and see. If this idea flies (I'm getting a good feeling on it), you'll want a commercial walk-in therm for inside the unit. (Cheap, from a restaurant supply.) One with an outside display and a lead/probe for inside is a good idea additionally or in place of. If the unit doesn't have a strip door (AKA air curtain) you'll need one. Not always a HD requirement but it will save you $ and possibly impress your inspector.

If you've seen any of my posts re: reheating you know cooling quickly is a concern of mine. For meat, where the intention is to cook it for reheating, you want to rest it (for juice redistribution purposes) loosely covered, then pull it, or separate it into individual muscles or cut it in chunks, or leave it whole (all of this depends on what meat you've cooked and your preference), then cool fast. This is best achieved by spreading your pulled meat on sheet pans (your muscles, chunks, or wholes on racks on sheet pans), covering with plastic wrap (not tightly) to keep off anything that might fall onto it), and putting them on wire shelving in the walk-in. (Pre-chilling pans/racks is helpful.) When completely cool you wrap tightly, or re-package and wrap tightly--complete cooling has to happen before FoodSaver-ing.

[Btw, you can cool a whole brisket quickly. Whether or not they'd be pissy just because it's whole, I've no idea--and whole is much better for brisket, imo, for reheating. But you can (or might wish to) consider doing a different beef cut. Cheaper, but still tasty, and more forgiving on the cooking and reheating fronts. Just a thought,]

Cooked sauces or sides have to be cooled quickly as well, of course.

Oven: Actually, commercial ranges aren't that expensive (a 6-burner 36" s/o Southbend is only $1300 new) if you stick with the non-name brands or buy used--your best bet. Years ago I got an 8-burner w/griddle d/o Vulcan cheap when I told the seller I'd throw my paper product biz his way. You don't need one that big but shop used. The big deal: Do you have gas service? What will the HD's venting requirements be? What can you get away with for holding-for-serving equipment after you reheat?

Yep, bet he's got an ECB.

 

[Dale Perry]

I am preparing to talk to the owner of a Q joint that is going thru the big D. My brother in law that I want for a partner is a close friend of his, but still it is just a dream. We talked last night about catering. Scary when it comes to reality but I still want to try.

 

[K Kruger]

Wow. Very cool. Feel free to shoot me an e if you think I can be a help. (I can feel a new biz buzz and it's not even my place!

) Pretty day in central Ky, huh?

 

[Jeff T Miller]

Kevin, I don't think I have seen any of your posts on cooling meat quickly. I will be doing a search here in a few minutes. You have some good info there.

The guy at the HD told me that a pork butt and brisket would not cool fast enough just putting in the refrigerator. Especially the butt. Actually just sitting here thinking about it a brisket is only just a little over an inch thick maybe I can get by with it but the butt is way too big to cool quickly.

As far as other cuts of beef I was thinking about that. The only other thing I have read here on the forums is chuck roll. Is there someting else that is good smoked? I really like brisket and they are not usually real thick. Is there a certain technique to cool brisket quickly?

I am going down to work on the rest rooms today I will look a little closer at the walkin. I really need to check it out because I need what ever it isn't if that makes sense. Put another way if the walk in is a fridge I need a freezer. I have access to a commercial fridge that I doubt will cool to freezer. It has glass doors like you see in quick stop places.

I have a couple other question I will field. Is there a way to smoke ribs and keep them to reheat? Does chicken do ok to reheat?

The guy at the HD said I have to write up a list of the menu and explain how it will be prepared. From taking out of the fridge to putting it back in when it is done.

I was planning on starting out selling just sandwiches pulled pork and pulled beef. But I would like to expand as hopefully word of mouth spreads. My wife said something about a lawn chair theater. I came up with a crazy idea of dinner and a movie. Smoke a couple of meat loafs and watch a movie at dusk.

I am going to take my camera today and put some pics up today or more like this evening.

 

[K Kruger]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">My wife said something about a lawn chair theater. I came up with a crazy idea of dinner and a movie. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I like your style!

My post re: cooling are pretty much like what I wrote above. For PP, pull after resting loosely covered, cool quickly on (preferably) chilled sheet pans, and wrap tight or re-package and wrap. For sliced pork or brisket you'd cool on racks on sheet pans (separating the butt's muscles first), etc.

Chuck roll or roasts cut from that sub-primal are forgiving and will give you pulled beef. You can do round roasts but that takes a different approach--you pull at a lower internal, rest more briefly, and slice (thicker than you'd slice brisket) right into jus.

If you can't get a read on the walk-in, get a manufacturer's name and model number. You can get the needed info from that.

Dark-meat chicken reheats well. Breasts are trickier. Turkey breast reheats better than chicken, but best reheated in a stock or stock mix. Ribs reheat fine. All of this depends on how you're reheating. Pulled stuff can be reheated with sauce, juice, or a combo, in pans, covered in the oven and transferred to a commercial (if commercial is needed) crockpot, or can be reheated in the crock to begin with--that depends on the HD. Depending on how you'd plan to serve chicken, you can reheat in sauce or not (like the PP, in a covered pan) and hold in the oven or move to a steam table arrangement or heat lamps, or you can heat, hold, and finish on an open grill set-up if you have one. Ditto with ribs, though it's best if you pull them a bit early if the intention is to reheat. Many places I go to reheat on a grill and serve, or reheat on a grill and then heat lamp. Some even oven- or grill-heat then steam-table.

The big deal is getting an approval so you can get started. Think smaller (i.e. fewer items) at the moment so that you're not shelling out for all kinds of equipment. Easier to finagle menu expansion (HD-wise) after you're up and running. A pork/beef sandwich thing could be an easier sell to the HD at this point. If you go the chuck route at the outset, you can limit concern on the cooling-fast front, as it's a pulled item. Adding brisket (and other stuff) later would be an option. But keep in mind where you potentially might go with your concept. Though you might not need a grill now, a cheap 4-burner with a grill that you come across now, might make sense for your later expansion possibilities. But you can always add on (like a free-standing grill) later (which might have its own venting requirements); but keep an open mind.

Do not forget to check venting requirements (size and cfm minimum) if you have to go the commercial oven route--that will depend on the oven's location and the type of building it's in.

 

[Jeff T Miller]

Ok I finally took the camera and got some pictures. I am going to warn you right now if you are on dial up they may take a few minutes. They are a little over a half a megabyte in size. I will size them friendly for browsing and put in some explanation.

Give me a day or 2 and I will have it changed. Pics.

 

[K Kruger]

Nice pics. (I particularly like the sun-through-the-trees shots.) Yes, add some descriptive comments when you can. Nice location. The building looks huge. Cement floors? Interior walls/ceiling--is that painted metal or wood? Good sink. Did you get any walk-in info?

 

[J.M. Chenery]

This is more or less on topic but a bit different. For a while now, I've been tossing around the idea of setting up a rib and pulled pork sandwich concession stand to take to the various outdoor festivals, fairs, carnivals etc that seem to happen pretty much every weekend in the summer. You all know that when you go to these things, the food concessions are not pretty -- hot dogs, really bad burgers. I think that if you were selling a fresh bun packed with hot smoky Mr.Brown you'd be beating them off with a stick. Has anyone tried this with a WSM? I figure you'd probably need two bullets with both levels operating but I'd be really interested to hear from someone who's done it and how it worked out.