smokin fresh ham, not much time

[Dan H.]

i'll try to keep it short guys but may end up long. my buddy called again and IS really having some hogs butchered soon, and is really bringing it to me to smoke. quick reading on tvwb has put together this plan for me and i'd REALLY appreciate some help and advice, do's and don'ts, and if you had it to do over again what you would do different, and make sure i didn't mis-understand etc. thanks.
plan is:

i'll recieve the ham, could be entire portion (shank+butt) or maybe not, unsure of that (unfortunatly, i'll find out tomarrow)
I'de like it to be pretty 'normal'tasting cause its what he would kind of expect it sounds like, so I'd appreciate a recommended brining recipie, (assume anything you would find in stores would be GREAT, like "honey curred" etc., nothin crazy like applications of beef blood or anything

) Looks to me like i'll need a brine of about 2 weeks from reading, correct? (or maybe it depends on ingredients, not sure. but i do not have easy access to a injector right now either just so you know)
after a brine, does it need some air out time? if yes, then fine, if no, i'll proceed to smoke/cook on wsm at Chris A's recommened temp of 300somethin' (forgot now, but will look again, its in the 'ham' section of cooking topics) Now next important question is:
Is there any way to partially cook this for him w/ the smoke flavor included etc. so he could choose to cook FULLY whenever convienient for him? (much like us buying one at a store partially cooked/smoked) Or would you say to cook fully, safeley cool/refrige somehow (there large cuts, and I wanted to leave it whole for him...???) then deliver for a proper reheat (by him) later? and will a fully cooked product reheat well without hurting the taste and texture or quality? ( i assume it would be fine for the storboughts do fine reheated, then again there cooking process may differ,) this is slightley stressfull for i've never done it and originally assumed he must have changed his mind or got busy. but no, He said he could have it to me this weekend if I wanted to smoke/cook it for him. cant tell you how thankfull I am for the help.

 

[Dan H.]

shoot i was hoping someone would have some experience in this. i've posted about a month ago and no response then either. no one like how ham turns out on a wsm or what?

edit: was wandering how good a fresh ham would be, and not brined at all. just smoke/cooked and glazed? sounds like old posts suggest it not half bad, but keep in mind the person recieving it is expecting hammy ham, im assuming.

 

[K Kruger]

You've said nothing of curing. Curing is what makes supermarket ham taste like ham. That's what you need to look at first.

I've written about both cured hams and fresh hams. I do both but fresh hams most often. For those I flavor brine, rub and cook ~325-350. They do not taste like ham though; for that you need to cure, and for that you'll need time--5 days to 3 weeks depending on meat size and whether you inject the cure.

 

[K Kruger]

Here is a reference for cured ham; here for the fresh.

 

[K Kruger]

Forgive me. I missed your reference to time and brine, etc., so obviously you were referring to curing.

Got curing salt?

If you think he's wanting supermarket ham you need to cure and it would be best if you inject if the ham is whole. Fresh ham that is uncured will have the texture and look of roast pork. Flavor brining, smoking, etc., will add flavors but it will not be like cured ham.

 

[Dan H.]

ok first of all thanks for you time.
second am i wrong when i read the brine info in your post AND this sites ham section, that the wet, liquid brining, IS curing the ham? (sorry, i've found myself a bit thrown off) also define flavor brining vs. brining.

Ok. assuming that im correct that the brine will ''cure" the ham like i thought, i didn't realize the skin comes off as your link stated (or you stated) and im now going to assume the "x" patterns cut into the fat (i seen this described in the tvwb ham recipie section), are underneath the skin?? (you must be laughing by now)

basicly i just keep thinking that i'll research the heck out of things and get my info perfectly strait, and when it arrives i'll go about things and nothing will be like I visualized because i've not touched one before. thanks, i'll check back and keep looking around. oh and wheres a good, maybe local place to find curing salt. i've never actually looked for any or noticed any so not sure if its easy to find or not. thanks.

 

[K Kruger]

Okay, let's see--nomenclature: a 'brine' is a water-only or water-based mix that includes enough salt in it that using it to soak a protein item (meat, fish) will cause the salt to transfer into the meat (along with some of the water); a 'cure' can be dry or wet depending on whether water is included--the key variable is that either a copius amount of salt is used in order to effect a cure to the meat (as in a dry cure), or curing salt (aka sodium nitrite) is used to afford the same effect (also offering protection from botulism, giving the meat its characteristic red color, and giving the meat a cured, 'hammy' flavor), as in a wet cure or many dry cures; a 'dry cure' is the above (either heavy salt or salt with sodium nitrite) without water; a 'brine cure' or 'curing brine' or 'wet cure' is, most often, a brine (as noted above) that also includes curing salt.

A 'regular' brine will not cure meat, i.e., it will not (necessarily) cause meat to remain red in color; it will not offer protection from the C. botulinum bacteria, the bacteria that causes botulism; it will not (necessarily) cause a 'ham' flavor.

A 'flavor brine' does and does not do the same, except that it will allow flavors from the brine to penetrate into the meat--if one gives it enough time.

A 'cure'--wet or dry (in other words a brine 'cure' or a dry 'cure')--will cause the meat to retain much of its red color, will protect from C. bot, and will create a 'ham' taste.

So, to be (I hope) clearer: a liquid brine will not cure a ham unless it contains pink (curing) salt.

(I've had a bottle of wine--I'm in Vegas--so I hope I am being clear.)

Skin can come off--or not--as you wish. I do not take skin off for fresh hams that I am flavor brining (not curing) because I love the crispy skin that results from high heat cooking. I do score the skin (in a crosshatch pattern as noted) so that the brine will have an easier time penetrating, and so the skin will cook more crisply than it would if left unscored. I often do take the skin off hams that I am actually curing, i.e, turning into 'ham', simply because most people expect ham not to have skin attached (and Americans are very weird about skin and fat).

Curing salt can be hard to find locally. Check with a real butcher (not a guy who works in the meat department at King Soopers) and see if they have any. If not order on line. Were I you, in the situation with a buddy bringing me a fresh ham (and with the expectation he probably wants ham), I would take the meat and freeze it, order pink salt, then thaw the meat and cure it, then smoke it as noted in my link upthread. If he (and you) has to wait a bit for the curing salt to come in and the curing time to pass and the smoking/coooking to be done--oh well, it will be worth the wait.

[Too bad I have no pink salt with me at the moment. I will be passing through Colorado on Saturday.]

 

[Davo]

I had a lot of questions about brining and you've just about answered everything I wanted to know.

Thanks for your answer to Dan's query, it was very interesting as I've never brined anything in my life but now want to give it a try.

I won't go to the extreme of curing but brining has been something I've read about alot here and has intrigued me enough to give it a whirl.

I might start with a chicken first, I've read that it does well with a brine.

Cheers

Davo

 

[Dan H.]

ok Kevin. after the last reply you've posted that sealed my understanding of everything. See the measures one has to go through to sink things into my head. Got it, and do appreciate it. if your heading through western CO and find no hotel worthy (likely) and your sleeper in your truck doesn't sound to good, I have the music room with a small couch, and you can pick a clasical, electric guitar, or play piano till your blue in the face, haha

. I'll update the ham situation, hopefully it will be a success. thanks a million, i mis-read a few things and didn't quite understand. info overload, lots of big words to a construction dude.

have a good trip.

 

[K Kruger]

Davo-- Lean meats do well brined. Many pork cuts, chicken and turkey are often brined to season the interior of the meat and to boost moisture. Flavor brining (adding flavors to brines) is another approach. At the top left of this page, click the Cooking Topics link and scroll down to the poultry section. There you'll find flavor brines for turkey tha Chris has put together, all of which can be adapted for other meats.

Where are you in western Colo, Dan? Do get some pink salt (whether for this ham or another) because it's also the thing for other cured meats: bacon (you haven't lived till you make your own!), pastrami, and so forth.

 

[Dan H.]

!! he dropped by early today. 25 lbs. of ham and two big hunks of bacon. (to my surprise!)im assuming belly, the muscle fiber is strait/long and carries on for the full 2 feet or so. I cut the bacon in half which is hopefully ok. I had thought buckboard was a proceedure w/ this belly cut, but seen it was for butt. Im placing orders for all I need online, as you posted above, directly after the next response i get here. This has become quite a project as my kitchen looked like a real deal butchering place this morning. I was overwhelmed. if you need weight of bacon's let me know, i didn't weigh them yet. cant tell you thanks enough. Also everything is in a freezer as of 30 min. ago. if you need to know, wrapped with buther paper, taped, and then surran wrapped over that. I'm also assuming im cutting the ham down the middle into the "butt end" and "shank end", because obvious to me it wont fit, and that makes more sense to me anyway. I'm visualizing on smoke day, one on top, one on bottom. thanks again.
also that would be the "dc" curing salt (your link above, correct?
trouble understanding "pellicle" (im adding to the post periodicly, sorry.)
If i use phil's posted bacon recipie (Michael Ruhlman) in pork recipie section, would you say i need to go ahead and use the curing salt and instructions as posted, or as I've noticed looking around, you typicly skip that when you do bacon. so if you were to say i could skip it (cure salt) and get "a" version of it, then what would you re-arrange about it? Either way is fine with me, i'll have the salt one way or the other. the recipie just appealed to me and seemed like a "why not" place to start. that may be foolish to say but i don't know... besides, i am.

also seems to be cut perhaps roughly (his neighbor did it). how important is the trimming besides rhind on?

 

[K Kruger]

I often skip curing salt when I do bacon but do use it often enough. I'd say for your first forays into bacon making you should use it. You'll get a good sense of what it does falvor- and texture-wise.

Since you are going to order pink salt (yes, the DC at the link, aka Prague #1, Insta-cure #1, among others) get some dextrose as well.

You can use the recipe Phil posted, as written, for maple-cured bacon. Alternatively, you can make a mix of kosher salt, pink salt and dextrose and keep it on hand as the base from which to work (you can also use it alone). (Dextrose is finer than table sugar and blends and dissolved better.) For that, from Ruhlman, the basic cure is:


1 lb kosher salt

13oz dextrose

3oz pink salt (#1)


Mix well and store in a Ziploc. It will last indefinitely.

To use this mix alone or as a base, use 1/4 c per 3-5-lb piece. You can spread the dry cure on a sheetpan then press all sides of the belly into the cure so that all are well-coated, thickly and uniformly. Or, more easy, simply dump the mix into a large Ziploc (get the 2- or 2.5-gal ones), add your other flavoring ingredients, if using, and shake/mash to mix; add the belly and close the bag, shaking it well to distribute the mix evenly.

For various ideas and commentary see Richard Batey's pages here and his commentary here. Also see Josh's thread here. Also see Bryan's honey bacon thread here.

I cool bacon after smoking this way. It is not essential (you can cool to room temp, then chill, wrap and fridge or freeze) but I prefer to get it packaged and fridged quickly.

I do not square off the bellies before smoking. I do that after smoking and before packaging. The pieces i cut off to square the bacon (which makes for easier slicing) I keep to use when chopped, ground or diced bacon is what I'll be needing, or to add to a pot of beans or greens.

If I am going to remove the skin I usually do so before curing but it is fine to wait and do it after smoking, while the meat is still hot. Alternatively, you can leave the skin on and only remove it after slicing the bacon if you wish. Slices fried with the skin on are pretty tasty to me.

I cure most bacon 7 days, a day or two longer for thicker bellies and usually overhaul (flip the bellies) every day (do so at least every other day).

I rinse the bellies after curing very well, as others note, but then usually trim off a piece at that point and fry it in a little oil. This I taste for salt. If the belly is saltier than I'd like I soak it in cold water in the fridge, changing the water once, for an hour or two. (If I think it necessary I will trim and cook another little piece to check it.) Soaked or not, the belly is dried well then either left on a rack in the fridge to air dry, uncovered, or placed on a rack on the counter to air dry. Air drying is what forms the pellicle, the sticky surface coating that forms on the surfaces of the meat, allowing for even smoke adherence.

I Minion the start using not-too-many lit coals and load the belly (bellies, more often, as I usually make two or three kinds at once) immediately. I often use sassafras for bacon, especially for the savory bacons, but also like hickory, citru, apple or a blend. I use small pieces so that ignition is more, and more efficient. I look for a slow come-up in temp and shoot for 180-200, tops. I look for a finish temp of ~150 give or take a couple degrees.

I do like maple bacon but my personal favorites are savory ones (there is sugar in the mix so they are not devoid of sweetness). I do one much like Josh's garlic bacon but add a bit more bay leaf, a couple sprigs of thyme, and a dozen crushed juniper berries to the mix. I do them with sage in place of the juniper (about 6-8 leaves, fresh, crushed), or without the garlic and juniper but with lemon zest (from 2 lemons), thyme and sage. I have yet to try Richard's 'Chorizon' bacon but it is right up my alley. The last belly I did was cured with garlic, peppercorns and thyme. I coated it well with Aleppo before smoking. A definite keeper.


This is a pic of a 19-lb ham leg (fresh ham) that I flavor-brined and paste-rubbed for cooking. You'll see that it just fits on its side. Rigged well with wire I could have cooked it on its butt end upright, on the lower grate, but it definitely would have needed rigging to keep it from falling over. Measure yours and see what you can come up with short of cutting it. Or cut it if you'd prefer.

 

[Dan H.]

everything is very clear. again much thanks. Only thing left question wise may be with the ham. (im very excited to do the bacon)
1. its every bit of 20 inches length. So I CAN get it in, but are you saying (if i read correctly) I shouldn't have the wide end down. In other words, in your picture, does the left side for some reason need to be facing up, or is it the opposite? or does it matter?
2. I can't help but still be a bit foggy on the skin on/off thing. I wrapped them and placed in freezer, but for the little i looked (this is my first, sorry) it appeared to be a rough fatty surface for the majority of it. Now im just thinking the skin must be.... off already? After those get cleared up im ready to do something even if its wrong!

if you wouldn't mind keeping an eye out for this thread, that would be great in case anything else comes up (if you would) This is pretty darn fun, I really am going to put away the briskit, butts, and ribs for a while. Im learning so much almost to fast. esp. the bacon. im a bacon fan. most appreciated, really. oh and im close to Grand Junction. how was CO? I know it was a nice day Sat. To bad no time for fishing, or dinking around

thanks.

 

[K Kruger]

I meant to tell you as a totally unrelated aside: On Friday--just after 5pm local time--halfway between Fruita and GJ on I-70--I blew two--two--trailer tires. Two of the four new ones I'd got, like, 3 weeks ago. Couldn't go on like that. Road service call; two new recaps; me and the tire guy under the trailer, in the heat, prying tread from between the axle and air bag--and the kicker: $510. (Saturday morning was beautiful. Road my bike a bit. Gym in Arvada. Headed east from there...)

The ham in the pic is skin-on so it needed to be place on the side it's on. Alternatively--had it not fit--I could have placed it on its butt end, shank bone pointing up, on the bottome grate, but then I would have had to wire the shank bone from two or three places, attaching the wire wherever on the WSM, so that it would stay upright. PITA but doable.

If you are going to cure the ham you'll remove the skin first and much of the surface fat. If it will fit on its side then that's the way to go. A little foil under it in the spots that are closest to the grate edges will protect those spots from the more direct heat that comes up the sides of the cooker.

For the bacon you can go skin on or off. If it is off already that's fine. If you look at the raw belly pic at Richard Batey's Makin' Bacon site you'l see what a whole belly looks like. His was skin on, but the pic is flesh side up; you can see the skin protruding at the edges. It is thick and looks like, well, skin. (Rather than candle the skin well, many non-immigrant Americans who raise pork simply remove the skin. Immigrants, who have long eaten the skin in many ways, make sure it's cleaned well so it is ready for cooking in one way or another. My Cuban neighbors wouldn't think of not making the skin pretty after slaughter. My friends in town just remove it.)

 

[Dan H.]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dan H.:
Butcher & Packer supply company sent me two of my three items and my luck was they lacked the DQ cure salt even though its on the reciept!

! my question is I thawed the ham for the last two days after freezing, now apperantly there closed for today and my hope was they could overnight it to me "on the house" since it was a mistake (s&^% happens, i understand) and i could still be fine, but now wandering how long that ham will be ok refriged for? Its now been thawed for 1 day (when butchered) and froze since august 19th I believe. Last two days its been thawing and i'm guessing it is thawed all the way through. If not fully (thawed) darn close. What are your thoughts on all of the above. thanks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
edit. by the way how far apart would you inject for a best as possible cure. example: If i start near the bone first (which i will) I stab for the first time and inject, now moving to my left (or up, or down, or right, whatever direction) should I put a hole every inch, or two... or less? hope that makes since. thanks.

 

[K Kruger]

Start injecting at one end, about 1 inch from that end, and insert your needle to the bone. Inject, using about 1/2 the cure that is in your injector while your needle is at the bone and then SLOWLY draw the needle out, using the rest of the cure before you've pulled the needle out, so that pretty much the injection covers from the bone to halfway-three-quarters of the way out of the meat. Go around the bone, once on each side (4 points in other words) then move toward the other end about 2-2.5 inches and repeat; keep repeating till you hit the other end.

I'd re-freeze for the moment.

 

[Dan H.]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dan H.:
so when freezing (twice...

) , will that have any affect on texture or anything, i never quite understood that, but have seen comments that seemed like people like things fresh if possible and was wandering what that does. i'm just frustrated right now a bit. Same question for the bacon. and directly after reading your response I moved the leg into freezer again and noticed that it's bleeding a pretty good amount ...enough blood that it was noticable. I was under the impression that if it was kept below 39-40 the whole time after butcher, it shouldn't be that much, but maybe thats just small cuts like chops and beef steaks or something... not sure. Anyway i'll get a hold of those guys tomarrow and get my salt. I think im ready now and will post how everything goes. i've had plenty of time to think and read up, and then the salt doesn't show!! Next post will be to let you know how all went (or didn't went!) I think im out of questions but you never know. Thanks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[K Kruger]

Freezing can and does affect foods sometimes and re-freezing can and does as well. Less so with some things more than others but you don't have a lot of choice here. It's important that you retard the growth of spoilage organisms and the rancidification of fats.