Select packer - how to improve?


 
PeterD

PeterD

TVWBB Super Fan
So, my luck ran out in NJ this week trying to get a full Choice grade packer. Sussex Meat said there isn't one to be had in NJ and hasn't been for weeks. So off I went to Western Beef in NYC. First place had a scrawny one that I passed on, but the second place had a couple of reasonably-OK packers size-wise, but two problems presented themselves here that I'd like advice on.

First, it's only Select grade. That's a very bottom-end meat market and they rarely have anything over select, but it's all cheap, in keeping with their clientelle's needs. Is there any possibility of getting good eats out of this grade?

Second, even the best one had a thin flat and huge slabs of hard fat all over the top and sides of the point. I grabbed one that had the thickest flat, with a pre-trim weight of 12.46#. I suspect pre-cook will be under 12 as it's got a lot of hard fat.

My problems in the past have always been that the thin flats are shoe leather when the main bulk of the brisket is probe tender. I put my temp. probe in the top of the brisket on the sloped part of the point, about a third of the way down from the top of the point, and when that whole area is tender almost the whole flat is grey and stringy and falling apart.

My planned cooking method is 240 degrees for as long as it takes over Comp K with white oak and either apple or cherry. No wet rub, but I plan to do an inject with Fab-lite. For a rub I'm just planning on a simple dalmation rub with a touch of Ancho for smoke, a dash of Cayenne for heat and maybe some allspice. Coffee, too, maybe??

Any thoughts on getting this bad boy tender throughout with little waste?
 
Is there any specific advantage of doing a HH in terms of poorer grades? I'm used to doing long, slow cooks and my only experience with HH turned the brisket to jerky. I've got 15 people coming over at 2pm tomorrow and I'd rather not experiment with a completely new process unless that's a sure-fire way to help a Select rather than my usual Choice grade.

Wouldn't HH also risk burning a thin flat even more than low/slow?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PeterD:
Is there any specific advantage of doing a HH in terms of poorer grades? I'm used to doing long, slow cooks and my only experience with HH turned the brisket to jerky. I've got 15 people coming over at 2pm tomorrow and I'd rather not experiment with a completely new process unless that's a sure-fire way to help a Select rather than my usual Choice grade.

Wouldn't HH also risk burning a thin flat even more than low/slow? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Foiling with a little fluid helps, esp. flats in my experience, either HH or L&S.

I've done many no-foil Low & Slow cooks with Select packers and had no complaints. (I have a nearby restaurant store that periodically sells them for dirt cheap--can't help myself.)

Both methods will work; I just think you have less risk with Kevin's suggested approach.
 
Well, I'll say what many would like to but won't: Having cooked many, many dozens of briskets of all grades low/slow, and then having cooked many of all grades at high heat, high heat produces such consistently better product end to end - and from cook to cook - that it clearly wins over low/slow. With the exception of Prime and equivalent Wagyu briskets, I can't imagine ever bothering with low/slow again. I haven't in several years.

Foiling prevents burning (though at typical HH temps that's pretty difficult to do anyway) but more importantly it creates a moist heat environment which more efficiently cooks the brisket evenly. I never add liquid to the foil - I cook packers only and it really isn't needed - but one certainly can, and it should be strongly considered if doing just a flat or an otherwise piece of a brisket rather than a whole one.

Imco, HH brisket is one of the easiest cooks to do.
 
Peter - I can only offer a limited perspective. I have only done a few briskets. And those have all been HH. But I would say that you don't have to worry about "experimenting." I followed one of Kevin's posts <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Minion the start (with ~25 lit) and load the meat immediately. This allows for some gentler cooking while the temps rise (not a blast of surface heat), better ring formation, and a good amount of time in smoke before foiling. I do packers and do not temp at all. I simply foil at the 2.5-hour mark. I check for tender the first time a bit less than 1.5 hours after that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I was a little nervous going strictly by time, and not temp. But it works. The results are amazing, each time I've used this method. Whichever way you go, good luck and enjoy!

Mike
 
I guess it's worth a shot. The very best-ever brisket I've eaten is at Hill Country in NYC. Their Texas post oak fired pits run at 225-230 and they cook big (14-16#) packers without foil for 19-21 hours. I'm trying to emulate their procedures and hoping to get their results. They use Choice grade meat, however, no injection, no mops, no paste -- just a dalmation rub with a little cayenne for zing.
 
I wouldn't worry about the select grade that's why you have the fab, the enzymes literally make it into a better grade of beef. I mix the fab up 4 hours before I inject to go ahead and activate them.

I block off 7 hours before I want the brisket done and that's when I start the smoker. Lately I've been doing 2 briskets per smoker and rotating them top to bottom at the foil stage.

The night before the cook I inject it with FAB-B mixed 1 part apple juice, 1 part low sodium beef broth, and 1 part strained stubbs beef marinade. I use a big multi tip injector. Then marinate it in a 2.5 gallon ziplock with the leftover injection and the remainder of the stubbs. And back in the fridge over night. 

2 hours before the cook, I take out the brisket and pat dry with paper towels. Then I applied weber's smokey mesquite rub. But yours sounds very good as well. Then put it back in the fridge. 

Get the 18.5 wsm going with a empty foiled water pan, and your smoke wood, put the cold meat on fat side down while the smoker comes up to temp. I cook high heat. It will take about 45 min for the smoker to get up to 325• I let it run between 325-350• for 2.5 hours until the internal temp registers 170•

After it gets to 170 put the brisky in a tightly foiled aluminum pan fat side up and back return it to the smoker for 2 hours.

After the two hours take it off but leave it tightly foiled in the pan for 1.5 hours then remove the point and sliced. 

Or hold it longer in a hot cooler.

Some people make burnt ends but I usually just wrap it back up in foil and put it back on the 350 degree smoker or oven for 1.5 hours then slice across the grain, too. Tastes like the flat on sandwiches.
 
To me FAB tastes like, well, FAB. Rather unappealing. And unless the beef broth is homemade... .

Hill Country may do their briskets low/slow - but then they're not very central Texas oriented, where contrary to popular notion most places go the high heat route.

Pastes, rubs, etc., are not necessary if you don't wish to use them. I do not much care for Texas barbecue - the salt-and-pepper with maybe a little cayenne thing is far to boring/bland for me. I make pastes and/or rubs for my preference, and those of my clients. Neither has anything to do with making a tender brisket though and if you want to go plain feel free.

High heat gets me moist, flavorful brisket from tip of the flat to the end of the point every single time. No injections, no phosphates, no 'enhancers', no liquid additions. And it does so in about 4 hours, irrespective of packer size.

Your choice.
 
OK, so doing the HH method for the first time with a full packer. My Stoker's set to 350 at the grate and my temp probe is in the sloping part of the point, with the tip probably near the junction of point and flat inside. The Stoker temp probe is reading 140 after 3 and a half hours. This sounds much longer than most HH descriptions I've read. Should I just foil now or wait 'til she hits 160ish? Obviously I like good bark and smoke flavour so I don't mind a little extra time in the smoke, but I'm also hoping to get this bad boy sliced and served by 4pm (about 3-1/2 hours from now).

How should I proceed? Wait for 160 or foil'er up now?
 
I probe for temp in the middle of the flat right under the tip of the point. In the money muscle part of the flat.

I'd just foil now and stick to the plan. After 2 hours in foil take one of your skewers amd probe the flat. If it feels like butter your done. Cover it back and rest. If its tough to push through put it back on for 30 minutes and try again.
 
Here is how mine look when flipping over into the foil pan for the foiling stage. I don't add any liquid either. If yours looks like this foil it. You really cook it and tenderize it in the moist environment when its foied.

The first stage really just sets the color and adds the smoke flavor and smoke ring.

20120407_134251.jpg
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'd just foil now and stick to the plan. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed. Internal temp is pretty irrelevant. I just foil at around the 2.5-hour mark.

I'd suggest checking for tender 90 minutes after foiling. Won't hurt and if not yet done will give you a reference point in terms of feel.

Once you've foiled internal temp is meaningless as well so ignore any temp you see if using a turned-on temp probe to check for done.
 
OK, got it in foil about 150ish, at four hours in. Put the probe back and it's up to 165 now and climbing at the same rate it did before (no evidence of a plateau).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kaz S:
I probe for temp in the middle of the flat right under the tip of the point. In the money muscle part of the flat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Would you say the probe is more or less in the right place here:?
MemDay12brisket-a.jpg


Here's a partial StokerLog track. I re-set the Stoker about an hour in so what's graphed is from 1h:05m (10:05am) until 1:25pm.
MemDay12brisket-b.jpg
 
You want to probe right there, but from the side into the middle of the flat. Color wise it looks like the smoker may not be hot enough? Where are you measuring temp? Is your temp probe touching anything metal (like pan or grates) something that would throw off the reading? I measure mine through the vent hole. With a maverick et-732 and I have a dome mounted therm. I have to crack my door and flip it upside down to achieve high temps like this, but I've never used a stoker either. I'd say try to get the temp up even more.
 
Like kevin said after foiling the temp is meaningless. You can only probe from the side into the flat to check for doneness/tenderness.
 
Ok, good to know for next time. I'm curious; why is temping not accurate once it's in the foil?

The Stoker's pit probe is attached via a strong clip and is held in free air, parallel to the grate about an inch either above or below the cooking surface. In my case it's below.
 
Due to the cooking environment that it is in. The internal temp may read over 200 but it won't be tender yet. You hear its done at a certain temp but that's not always right, its a guideline. Its done when its tender. I don't know all the science of it. Hopefully kevin can chime in or point some links out where he's discussed this before.
 
90 minutes in foil and it's like butter. No bark whatsoever but it's borderline gelatinous in the point. It's wrapped up in a couple of layers of foil and resting on a towel in a small cooler as of 2:45pm, five hours and forty-five minutes after the 33 degree meat first went on the grill. It'll be sliced in about an hour. Photos will hopefully be forthcoming but we have a house full of hungry foodies so I'm not sure how long it'll all last before the ravenous horde digs in ;D
 
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