Sand in water pan


 
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DeeC.

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Hi everyone,

I saw on a post this morning on the KC forum that talked briefly about using sand in the WSM for temp control. Have any of you more experienced WSM owners tried this? Sounds like it might be a good idea, especially for long cooks with pork butts. You would still get the temp control but not have to worry with keeping the pan full of water.

I do realize you would lose moisture, but with butts, would there not be enough fat to keep the meat from drying out?

It would also be a good excuse to try out some of those mop recipes that are virtually unneeded when you cook WITH water.

What do you guys think?

Thanks for your input.
 
Wouldn't it be better to use wet sand to prevent any wind gusts from getting sand blown on to the meat?

Or would wet sand conduct the heat too much?

I guess the meat juices would eventually get the sand wet anyway.
 
I read that thread also. I don't know...seems to me the lack of humidity would mess up the cook being that's the way the WSM was designed.
 
Personally, I would like to see some scientific, credible evidence, that say's this is safe, before I would try it. Most, if not all elements produce fumes when heated. I am quite sure that it is recommended, by OSHA, that individuals working in sand casting areas are required to at least wear some type of respirator, be it cloth mask type or full face. At least this was done where I have done consulting work. I also think this a great topic, and we should continue this thread until it's is determined whether it is safe or not. I have given it quite a bit of thought through the past few years and I still can not find enough evidence to tell me it is ok to use. Now that said, I have thought about using rock salt, in place of water.
 
My understanding is that the sand was covered by foil to catch the fat. I have never tried it so how or if it works will have to be something I will have to disscuss later, but the same idea is used by other cookers using pizza stone as a heat deflector.
Jim
 
Lots of valid points on this thread. I think I will hold off on trying sand in the water pan until its proven to be safe. Thanks.
 
I read that he covered it with foil, so would fumes be able to get out of the pan onto the meat?
 
Jim & Raine,
It is clear that many types of heat sinks or barriers are used in cookers of all types. Pizza stones and water pans, and steel baffles are three that come to mind. I have yet to see any manufacturer come out with a sand filled enclosed pan, to operate as a heat sink. While the idea is simple, and it will work great, since sand has been used in metal heating ovens since the early part of this century, it has never, at least that I have seen, been a part of a cooking type oven. The first reason that comes to mind is product liability. If the pan is covered with foil, is this enough to stop fumes? I do not have that answer. Problem being, is that you may not get sick today, or tomorrow, or never for that fact. But, I see more health benefits of not using it, than taking a chance. Many cookbooks recommend using a water pan in the oven when making breads, to help stabilize, and introduce moisture, into the oven. Cookbooks are the number one most difficult books to get published, because of liability. I have yet to see any cookbook recommend using a pan of sand in the oven, for heat stabilization. If any body has one, I will be very happy to reverse my opinion in this matter. I also wonder why Weber has never mentioned using sand in the pan instead of water?
 
This is the first I have heard of anyone using sand. We probably wouldn't use it, for we have never had a problem using the water pan. It would be an interesting study.
 
I saw a 'Chef's Tour" last night on the food channel and they cooked a whole lamb in a sand oven, They have been doing this for thousands of years so I don't see a safety issue. The proof is if the final product comes out better.
 
Jim
I agree that I see no big advantage to it, I've been doing overnight cooks for years and it's just not a problem with using water in the waterpan.
jim
 
Personally, I see no problem with using sand as a heat barrier. After all, don't we put fireplace bricks in our cookers to even out heat fluctuations? And, aren't some grills/BarBQs made out of brick, which contains sand?

I, personally, use a 1" layer of sand down in the bottom of my gas grill to absorb grease drippings and I then dump it as the layer gets saturated. And, I'm not dead yet... I hope. Although, I do have this gritty substance in my mouth everytime I eat grilled food!
 
I wonder if using flat beer would be any good instead of water. I have seen many people throw out flat beer from kegs and maybe this could be used in the water pan.
 
Bricks are probably not a good example, since the sand has now been bound into a different state. Lets keep this where it was, on sand. To further back up that claim, Sand, or silica is the main ingredient in glass, and we all know it as a safe medium for cooking. But, the manufacture of glass and brick for that matter is not as safe as the end product. The chemical composition of sand, is set forth as such: SiO2
Crystalline silica, or silicon dioxide (SiO2), is the basic component of sand, quartz and granite rock. Crystalline refers to the orientation of the SiO2 molecules in a fixed pattern as opposed to a non-periodic, random molecular arrangement which is defined as amorphous (without shape). Examples of amorphous silica include opal, flint and diatomaceous earth. Three of the most common forms of crystalline silica encountered in industry are quartz, tridymite, and cristobalite.
Much more information is available at your leisure if, you do a search on google and start exploring, silicosis. Like I said from the onset, I see a lot of information that keeps me away from using sand, as a barrier. Water is much safer in my opinion.
 
Back in my ECB days, I tried replacing the water with quite a few different liquids including witch's brews of beer, wine, stocks, and spices.

Based on that, I came to the conclusion that any flavors in the liquid in the vapor were carried to the meat in such trace amounts and so superficially on the surface to be negligible and not worth the bother. Granted, the simmering liquid would smell great, but I think any improved flavor in the final product was strictly psychological. I get the same results with plain old H2O. (That's about the extent of my knowledge of chemistry. Jim sure is a hard act to follow!) What I do know for certain is whatever water in the liquid I was using would boil off or evaporate away and leave a nasty, gummy residue in the pan to clean out.

Of course, YMMV. Half the satisfaction is in the experimentation.

Ken
 
Not that I plan on using sand in my water pan, but the sand one would be likely to use would be different from that used in the foundry casting process, particularly in the abscence of chemical binders, i.e. glue used to keep the sand molds together.

I'd also question any safety concerns considering how much sand is ingested each year at our nations beaches.

Finally, if sand was a real health risk, how could they cook all those pigs in the sand in Hawaii?
 
Jim,
Good idea you had, checking on the safety of sand.
I looked it up today and found out that none of the components that make up sand is a carcinogen or even a suspected carcinogen. The MSDS sheets I looked at said there were no special handling requirements. The toxicity = none. I know at work if something is not safe they always have handling warnings. The disease you mentioned is contracted by inhaling large amounts of silicon dust. People who do sandblasting for a living are the ones at risk they said.
It's always a good idea to check things out before they go in your gut.
 
To add to that. The melting point of silica dioxide (sand) is something in excess of 1400 Celsius. I believe it would have to melt to a liquid from a solid before it could change to a gas (vapors).

I believe that the steel water pan would melt well before the sand does.
 
Rick/Dave/Webb
Thanks for adding your input. Way too often, the assurance of cooking healthy, gets overlooked. Since the majority of people, that post and view the various bbq lists, including myself, are not professional cooks, it's always a good idea to ask a few questions.
 
Yo to all, I have discussed this new method of cooking with db and I wanted to clarify how he uses the sand in the waterpan before I posted so I would not offend him nor steal his thunder. I have read where people have been concerned about the dangers of using sand in the waterpan and IMHO "qualified" opinion, those fears are unfounded.

I have 15 years of sandblasting experience. I have dried sands from different sources from various regions of the State of Missouri. We could always tell when sand from the Mighty Mo was being dried because of the way it smelled. River sand is dirty.

Some of the bigger rivers in the U.S. have heavy metals, pesticides and PCBs that have settled on the river bottoms where the sand is dredged. At this point in time, General Electric is being sued to dredge the Hudson river to remove the PCBs that are on the river bottom.

I would not be concerned about getting silicosis from the sand in the waterpan. And db is correct, silicosis is the result of breathing sand particles with the crystaline form being the more dangerous as the sharp edges cut into the aveoli of the lungs and remain there until death do you part.

The only concern I would have would be if the sand came from a polluted water source and the sand had not been cleaned. The "non-sand" particles could POSSIBLY have carcinogens that MIGHT be released in the WSM when the sand is heated. However, I am guessing the heat need to do this is much higher than what we cook with.

But river sand is just one source for sand. One reliable source of clean sand is masonry cement. This sand has been thoroughly washed so that there is no debris left in the sand that affect the quality of the grout used for laying bricks. If you are still paranoid about the sand being dirty, you can contact the company that bags the masonry sand and ask them where they get their sand.

Would I try this method? Yes I would. I am by no means an expert on this subject and I too am overly cautious when it comes to food safety and exposure to possible carcinogens. After all, I have over 180 college hours in undergraduate work in safety and industrial hygiene.

Beers to all,

Juggy D Beerman
 
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