Pizza Dough & Pizza Sauce


 
Hey Rita - yeah we'll see. Petty much a basic recipe. And I've used KA bread, ap, and other flours in the past. All had spring back that I found annoying to one degree or another. So double headed this experiment if you will.

Next batch I'll try it without the relaxer (already had it) and see if there's any difference.

BTW first page recipe is what I'm using, have the same book
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Excellent recipe, actually the whole book is excellent IMHO.

Also tried the new fibramet stone. Nice bite and chew to the crust as is. Made one white anchovy and one margherita. Both excellent.

500+ degree oven upper rack. Nicely browned top and bottom. A winner.

We'll see how the frozen dough works in the near future.
 
Don't want to hijack the thread but a question concerning kneading. If you use a KA mixer to knead how long and at what setting would you use? I think I over did it on my last batch- too high and too long
 
Good question Paul. I adapted totally to the KA.

The recipe calls for 10 minutes of kneading. Normally I would just set the timer and knead by hand.

I had a number of conference calls and "needed" to be flexible.

I set the timer on 15 minutes as I knew that I would be pausing to strip the dough hook down several times during that process.

Worked great. I set the KA on 1 for speed.

General recommendation would be to keep the speed low and allow time to stop and strip the hook. Even 20 minutes total time in this context would be fine, I.E. strip the hook more.

Thing is you really are just looking at touch and feel, silky texture not time. The timer is just a gauge.
 
by stand mixer: Measure the flour, yeast, and salt together in the mixing bowl and stir them together by hand. Using the dough hook, mix on low speed while pouring in the water; continue to mix on low speed just until the dough gathers around the hook, about 3 minutes. Cover the bowl and let the dough rest for about 10 to 15 minutes to allow the yeast to fully hydrate. Mix the dough on medium speed for about 3 minutes, until the dough is fairly but not perfectly smooth.


I just follow the directions in the original recipe and it works out well. Except I do it on #1 both times. If I do it on #3 my mixer wants to jump off the counter.
 
Bob's directions are from the recipe up to the intial mix.

After that it tells you to kneed by hand for 10 minutes.

My instructions were intended to pass and include on what I did for the knead after the mix/rest for 3 minutes.
 
I'm confused as to what you are doing or asking. The instructions on the first page of this thread say you have 3 options (choose ONE) for mixing the dough:

BY HAND:
Mix the ingredients just to combine them.
Rest the dough 10-15 minutes
Knead the dough BY HAND for 5 to 10 minutes, then divide the dough.

OR BY MIXER:
Mix the ingredients just to combine them.
Rest the dough 10-15 minutes
Mix on medium speed for about 3 minutes, then divide the dough.

OR BY FOOD PROCESSOR
Mix the ingredients just to combine them.
Rest the dough 10-15 minutes
Process in 3 or 4 (30-second) intervals, then divide the dough.

This dough doesn't need to be worked very much.

Rita
 
By Hand:

"Knead the dough BY HAND for 5 to 10 minutes, then divide the dough."

I kneaded in the KA for 5-10 minutes on low speed after the 10-15 minute rest.

Some people just can't follow directions
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@ Ray Haha after your 2nd last comment I figured I was doing it wrong so I reread the instructions 3 times before I scratched my head and gave up.
 
Hey Bob - yeah. The pizza was excellent even with my hamming it up is all I can say.

Over-working can make the dough stiff, but I think using the setting at 1 on the KA mitigated that.

Not to mention the relaxer I added to the recipe. A lot has to do with touch, feel and spring back during this stage and I was going more by that than any actual timing.

Thing is the dough was silky when I pulled it from the KA bowl. Separated and rolled nicely to the prep in the recipe. This was a really nice dough to work with.

Rita is the expert though and has done this recipe a billion times, so she can give you better tips than I.

I'm sure if you follow the recipe exactly you will be successful!
 
OK, gentlemen. We're all on the same page now?
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Ray, you're a hoot! It's interesting what can happen when one is distracted. Not a very big oops at all and luckily no harm done. The dough is pretty forgiving.

Bob, giving up is not allowed here.

Any questions? Just ask.

Rita
 
My only question was, where Ray got the further instruction to knead the dough for 10 minutes after the mixer but we got that all figured out.

Thanks for any past and future help.
 
Originally posted by Bob Sample:
My only question was, where Ray got the further instruction to knead the dough for 10 minutes after the mixer but we got that all figured out.

Thanks for any past and future help.
Click to expand...

Just from intuition and working with dough in general.

I knew I wanted it to smooth out to silky texture with just a little push back or none as I worked the dough. I adapted the 3 minutes on medium to 10 minutes on low. I stopped the machine and stripped the hook a bunch of times during the process.

As - I pretty much stopped the machine as set on low about every 2 minutes or when it crawled up the hook and I felt it wasn't really being kneaded. I went by touch and feel until I thought it was "done".

If I was straight up kneading by hand which I couldn't do this trip as I needed to be able to go off mute and talk on a conference call. I would have just hand kneaded for probably 8-10 minutes.

Again - the more you work with dough by hand you will understand that touch/feel is more important than strict timing.

If you are dong the mix totally by KA - as you move the speed to low and are stripping the hook every 2 minutes or so. This to me equates to 3 minute on medium where you are not stopping the machine at all and just watching it.

I was doing a touch and feel, stop/starting stripping the hook on the machine for 10 minutes while set to low.
 
Ray,

Thank you for you detailed explanation. Each time I make this I get a better feel.

I have made this a few times now and I have been freezing the leftover balls prior to proof. I just set it in the refrigerator the night before to thaw, and then in the morning put it out on the counter and head to work. When I come home it is ready.
 
Josh - that's my plan for the two balls I placed in the freezer. It's a good recipe, worked well with the stone. On it's way to being my new standard.
 
Josh, that's the way I do it. I usually allow for a 5-hour proof, but I've added a skosh more water to the dough. When I shape it for a pizza, it stretches by its own weight and I have to turn it quickly to keep it round.

Ray, do you mean to tell us that you can't knead dough by hand while you're making a conference call? Where are your priorities?

Rita
 
Rita, "turn it quickly" is very key. Learned that one quick! I have also been wetting my hands with water, which really helps (Thank you Stan for that tip!!)

I have a new (to me) stone coming this week so I will be back on the pizza kick. I am using shelf out of a kiln, an extra from a family member. My current stone broke around the edge, but is still somewhat useable.
 
Originally posted by Rita Y:
Ray, do you mean to tell us that you can't knead dough by hand while you're making a conference call? Where are your priorities?
Rita
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think I should just retire
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How thin does everyone stretch this dough? Because it is so extensible, I have had trouble keeping it from stretching beyond the point I wanted it to.

Also, what brand cheese do you use? My favorite so far (don't laugh) is the Walmart brand whole milk mozzarella block. I slice it and put it on.
 
If the dough is too extensible for you, you might cut back on the water by about 1 tablespoon and see if that makes it easier for you to handle, but eventually, you'll get used to handling the wetter dough. Also, no one is going to give you any demerits for using a rolling pin either.
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From a dough recipe with 500 g flour, I usually make either 2 (12-inch) pizzas or 4 (8- or 9-inch) individual pies.

As far as how thin to stretch the dough...not so thin that you can read a newspaper through it! You can stretch it to almost any thickness that you'd like, so it will support the toppings. These pizzas are usually not "loaded"...cheese, sauce, and up to 2 or 3 other items is usually plenty. If it stretches thinner than you'd like, just lay the crust down and gently prod it into a smaller circle, working into the center in order to make the center a little thicker. It's pretty forgiving.

As far as cheeses go, use what your taste buds like. Some people use sliced fresh mozzarella balls but I find the cheese a little wet, at least for the ones I have tried, but it is a matter of personal taste. Mixing cheeses is nice. I sometimes use a mix of mozzarella, white cheddar, and Asiago. Or whatever I want to use up.

Personally, I prefer to use diced cheeses (about 1/2 inch dice) rather than sliced or shredded. The diced cheese when melted makes small cheese puddles, is less likely to overcook and get stringy at high temperatures, and gives a cheesier impact when you bite into the pizza.

A light drizzle of extra-virgin olive oil (including on the exposed crust) before baking the pizza, or a garlic or herb oil afterwards is very nice.

Take notes, jot down your toppings and cheeses, and whether or not you liked the combination. Note any changes that you might want to try for the next time.

Rita
 
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