Ok quick and lazy set of questions....hey its a rainy Sunday...


 
J

JimV

TVWBB All-Star
Hey pro's....I will do my best to make this quick. I am just a little out of my element here on this one. I received a Napoleon Rogue 425 SE I believe it is from a guy for free and the grill had been used twice. The first time he used it he was amazed how hot the grill got and so quick....the second time he turned it up to high to heat the grill and walked away or so he said.....Then he saw the grill had flames roaring outside of the hood and he removed the gas line and possibly used a fire extinguisher to put it out. His story is whacky to me and I am done trying to make sense of it. From what he was originally telling me.....he thinks he hooked up a large house propane tank to a NG grill and thus the flames were out of control. But after I started tinkering on the grill it occurred to me that there is a tank hole on the bottom shelf so it is much more likely that he hooked up NG to a propane gas grill. So I ask what would be the outcome of doing that? Next........I can only assume that the large outdoor tanks that some houses have to run certain appliances and such must have a built in regulator of sorts right???? Because the way I received the grill was with just an exposed metal line with no regulator hose attached. Again.....this grill is brand new......used twice...caught on fire the second time. I have it all squared away now and I am approaching the step where I connect a Weber regulator to the the gas line and fire this sucker up.....out in the open....just in case :) . During the fire the flames melted off the model number and serial number sticker.....it is completely gone.....so I am just assuming it is a propane grill due to the whole in the bottom shelf. I recently asked you guys another question as I hooked up a NG gas grill to a propane tank with regulator and it for sure ran hot. I assume the revers would possibly work the same way...? Hooking a propane gas grill up to NG....what would that do???? Thanks...sorry for the horrible description/ramble.....see pic of the new slightly charred gal. The flames just flowed up and out so only the sides of the hood and cook box were damaged. I have already sanded and painted.
 

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Get it out in the open for any testing.

Propane has more btus per volume so sending through larger ng orifices would give you much larger flames. NG through propane would be the opposite.

Pressure or regulators can change things…
 

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Yep NG through an LP grill would result in very low flame/heat output. Large outdoor tanks typically have a regulator built on, though I am not sure if it's a standard 11" WC low pressure device or just something to step it down to then be further regulated at each connection. IDK if the hole in the shelf may mean anything. Napoleon might simply put it on all grills to simplify inventories.
 
maybe he left the owners manual inside and fired it up.

Can you post a pic of the orifice opening?

Presuming each main burner is 12K to 15K BTU if it is propane, the hole should be pretty small. If it is large then it might be an NG orifice.
 
Thanks guys....so we know he had wild out of control flames which would point the finger towards propane pumped into a NG grill yet there is a tank hole on this grill.....my research has shown Napoleon uses a solid base for NG grills.....hmmmm
 
I don’t trust grills that had fires. It’s possible that the grill is a lemon. It makes it through quality control but doesn’t run right.

If it performs ok in the propane 20lb tank with a regulator test you are probably ok. If not, you may have to rework with known propane parts.
 
DanHoo said:
maybe he left the owners manual inside and fired it up.

Can you post a pic of the orifice opening?

Presuming each main burner is 12K to 15K BTU if it is propane, the hole should be pretty small. If it is large then it might be an NG orifice.
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I will see....the control panel doesn't come off as easy as a Weber
 
JimV said:
I will see....the control panel doesn't come off as easy as a Weber
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These are from a genny E330 with a burner rated at 12.6K BTU. There is soot on the NG orifice but you can see the size difference

Edit. Adding the Pic.

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I will report back tomorrow......I will roll it to a safe location with a fire extinguisher at the ready and try to start or run on low and see how things go.......steady as she goes.....
 
Hmmmmmm never doubt Larry :) . I got in touch w the BBQ guys retail establishment that sold this particular Napoleon grill and they said " yes " they do occasionally send out a NG grill with the tank hole bottom shelf. He then forwarded me directly to Napoleon for the rest of my questions but I got cut off....so I will try again tomorrow. Anyway I rolled the gal outside and way down to the end of the loading dock. I purposely left the wheels unlocked and I had the propane tank hooked up to a 4ft Weber regulator sitting outside of the grill as far away as I could get it. Also for good measure I had a fire extinguisher at the ready. She fired right up cause she is brand friggin new. Napoleon uses the jet fire gas ignition like the Weber Summits use. I fired it up and quickly dialed it to low and I was able to confirm the previous owners story was correct after all. This is a NG grill and he pumped in propane from his large backyard propane tank and had all burners on high to pre-heat the grill. Given he had flavor bars in place he didnt notice the high flames enough before he shut the hood and walked away. It didnt take long before the grill had flames coming out the side of the hood and then he acted quickly to somehow get it all shut down. The flames on high were about a foot tall and about 6" tall on low. I have no way of testing this grill on NG and I cannot pass up on the huge profit I will get from this flip so I am going to move cautiously forward with the sale. This grill is $1400 new plus he gave me a rotisserie kit that is brand new in the box and a brand new cover so all in all about $1600 worth of grill that I got for free because he was so pissed at himself for almost catching his house on fire. My plan is to be very clear to any interested buyers that we will need to test the grill hooked up at their house for proper function and also do a leak test on site. I will be certain to not allow the grill to be tested right next to their house given the long NG hose that should be no problem. After a good round of tests and a high temp run I will have the buyer sign a basic form stating that we did these tests and that he assumes responsibility moving forward.
I will sell the grill at an extreme discount to the buyer for putting up with the abundance of caution at least initially. I am thinking about selling the grill for 6 or $700 which is a steal!! If I had a NG hook up I would keep it. All in all every burner fired right up as it should and I am confident it is good to go. I will be more confident after spraying soapy water all over every gas connection to be sure she is air tight.
 
I thought we frowned against orifice swaps and that we have learned that its not just the orifice yet it is also the valve inside the valve body as well that has different size holes. I looked up the conversion on the Napoleon site and they charge like $700 for the kit which ironically includes the correct bottom shelf. But in their kit they charge for the entire manifold......possibly for liability reasons.
 
JimV said:
I thought we frowned against orifice swaps and that we have learned that its not just the orifice yet it is also the valve inside the valve body as well that has different size holes. I looked up the conversion on the Napoleon site and they charge like $700 for the kit which ironically includes the correct bottom shelf. But in their kit they charge for the entire manifold......possibly for liability reasons.
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Again, I don't "know" Napoleons. I was going off a foggy memory of seeing one at my fireplace dealer (guys who installed my new fireplace) and thought I saw an included "kit". But goin on 5 years now. That was why I said it. Many companies though not only make it easy to do fuel swap but include the proper orifice kit WITH their grill. Case in point is the new Kirkland gas grill at Costco. Bottom line if they require a manifold buy one
 
Roger that......I totally agree that if I could swap it over to propane there would be several benefits but I dont want to mess with it. I am a weber man! I just want to get this sold and get back to my roots. Thanks for your help and suggestions.
 
JimV said:
Hmmmmmm never doubt Larry :) . I got in touch w the BBQ guys retail establishment that sold this particular Napoleon grill and they said " yes " they do occasionally send out a NG grill with the tank hole bottom shelf. He then forwarded me directly to Napoleon for the rest of my questions but I got cut off....so I will try again tomorrow. Anyway I rolled the gal outside and way down to the end of the loading dock. I purposely left the wheels unlocked and I had the propane tank hooked up to a 4ft Weber regulator sitting outside of the grill as far away as I could get it. Also for good measure I had a fire extinguisher at the ready. She fired right up cause she is brand friggin new. Napoleon uses the jet fire gas ignition like the Weber Summits use. I fired it up and quickly dialed it to low and I was able to confirm the previous owners story was correct after all. This is a NG grill and he pumped in propane from his large backyard propane tank and had all burners on high to pre-heat the grill. Given he had flavor bars in place he didnt notice the high flames enough before he shut the hood and walked away. It didnt take long before the grill had flames coming out the side of the hood and then he acted quickly to somehow get it all shut down. The flames on high were about a foot tall and about 6" tall on low. I have no way of testing this grill on NG and I cannot pass up on the huge profit I will get from this flip so I am going to move cautiously forward with the sale. This grill is $1400 new plus he gave me a rotisserie kit that is brand new in the box and a brand new cover so all in all about $1600 worth of grill that I got for free because he was so pissed at himself for almost catching his house on fire. My plan is to be very clear to any interested buyers that we will need to test the grill hooked up at their house for proper function and also do a leak test on site. I will be certain to not allow the grill to be tested right next to their house given the long NG hose that should be no problem. After a good round of tests and a high temp run I will have the buyer sign a basic form stating that we did these tests and that he assumes responsibility moving forward.
I will sell the grill at an extreme discount to the buyer for putting up with the abundance of caution at least initially. I am thinking about selling the grill for 6 or $700 which is a steal!! If I had a NG hook up I would keep it. All in all every burner fired right up as it should and I am confident it is good to go. I will be more confident after spraying soapy water all over every gas connection to be sure she is air tight.
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Why not just offer it as is and avoid getting yourself into a legal agreement by signing a document? Other than selling a vehicle, boat, why would anyone agree to sign a document? You may be giving off red flags in your ad although you mean well and being honest like you posted here would be what I would do.
 
Yeah, seems like a whole lotta stuff for basically nothing. IDK about trying orifices on it. Face it the first owner was kind of a putz to hook up to high pressure LP not to mention wrong fuel type but also to even higher pressure than used by an appliance. Darwin award right there
 
Good points guys thanks for the input. I listed it on FB for $700 as a NG. I did not mention the issues in the ad but I will speak to the individual buyers about the scenario. It might take a bit but I just need the right buyer.
 
JimV said:
Good points guys thanks for the input. I listed it on FB for $700 as a NG. I did not mention the issues in the ad but I will speak to the individual buyers about the scenario. It might take a bit but I just need the right buyer.
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Honestly I would not mention the Darwin award winner. Make the grill "right" and sell it if that is your choice to do.
 
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