Nitrite in bbq rubs


 
j biesinger

j biesinger

TVWBB Platinum Member
I've had this idea for sometime and since its freezing outside and there's not much to discuss, I thought I'd unleash this question.

Has anybody tried using tiny amounts of nitrite in a bbq rub?

My thoughts have to do with something I read about called "bacon on a stick." some practitioners of 'que are capable of getting their smoke ring to penetrate a rib to the bone, yielding a bacon flavored rib. I haven't attempted to try this but I thought it sounded good and probably very easy to do if the ribs are first cured similarly to pork belly.

My second line of thinking has to do with the smoke ring. I've read much that the ring is purely aesthetic, but I think it has a unique flavor. And if the ring is created by chemical reactions that produce nitrite, like some have suggested, then why wouldn't it have a distinct bacon flavor?

Can a small amount of pink salt, added to a rub, slightly enhance the rosy color of the ring and boost the bacon flavors it creates? can this be done safely? can it be done in moderation so the final product isn't ham?

I did a brief internet search and forum search here, but like I suspected, the term "nitrite" is far too associated with curing bacon, so it was difficult to find hits that had to do with the specific question of using nitrites in bbq rubs.
 
Interesting question and beyond my pay grade so to speak. I would think there are easier and better ways to flavor the meat. Just my thoughts.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by j biesinger:
My second line of thinking has to do with the smoke ring. I've read much that the ring is purely aesthetic, but I think it has a unique flavor. And if the ring is created by chemical reactions that produce nitrite, like some have suggested, then why wouldn't it have a distinct bacon flavor?

Can a small amount of pink salt, added to a rub, slightly enhance the rosy color of the ring and boost the bacon flavors it creates? can this be done safely? can it be done in moderation so the final product isn't ham?

I did a brief internet search and forum search here, but like I suspected, the term "nitrite" is far too associated with curing bacon, so it was difficult to find hits that had to do with the specific question of using nitrites in bbq rubs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
j, Keri C did an experiment a while back using Tender Quick on one half of a brisket, and just plain rub on the other half. The ring was very different between the 2 halfs. Of course the one with the TQ on it was at least twice as big as the non TQ side. Not sure if I can find the thread, but I'll take a look see for you.

EDIT: Well, found the thread but the link to her test pics is dead. Maybe Keri will do a drive by here and see this thread. Not much help here but I dug up the info here for you.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">j, Keri C did an experiment a while back using Tender Quick on one half of a brisket, and just plain rub on the other half. The ring was very different between the 2 halfs. Of course the one with the TQ on it was at least twice as big as the non TQ side. Not sure if I can find the thread, but I'll take a look see for you.

EDIT: Well, found the thread but the link to her test pics is dead. Maybe Keri will do a drive by here and see this thread. Not much help here but I dug up the info here for you. Big Grin </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

great stuff Bryan, thanks, you're a helpful curator of this forum.

The funny thing was I was wondering about the very reason that she tried the experiment in the first place ("cheating"). Since smoke rings tend to be boasted about, I was wondering if people used it to "enhance" the depth of the ring. I actually typed it into the original post but deleted because I had trouble expressing my thoughts on it, and I was purely speculating.

I was looking at this more for flavor. When I first started I read some competition advice that stated "go with popular flavors (i.e. bacon)...there's a reason why somethings are popular...because they taste good to most people." Using that reasoning, I was wondering if I could make my ribs taste more like bacon.

I suppose, like steve states, there's probably an easier, better way. I guess I was just curious why, when IMO the ring is one of the flavors that makes bbq distinct, I don't see something like tenderquick being used.

btw, I'm not surprised to an absence of tenderquick here. If there's one thing I like about this forum is the lack of gimmicky bbq and how us wsm users seem to come at bbq from a good-cooking angle (the diversity of the recipe section being one example of this).
 
Hey J, and guys, do you know or have you seen if a smoke ring can go deeper then a half inch? I have a book that says its impossible and a myth, but I thought somewhere around the second brisket I ever made had a huge smokering and wish I could go back in time to check. Truth is I didn't know what a smoke ring was at that point, lol. I thought the rub did something to it and it was "planned". Now I cant get a smoke ring to save my life about half the time. My latest and greatest idea was to put about 3-5 cups of water in the pan and crank the vents fully for as long as possible, appearantly that only works half the time to. Unfortunatly for me (and mostly you guys
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I blab my mouth around here enough that it says "pro" next to my name, but im not, so w/ that said im comfortable asking, what the heck does affect how deep it goes. I know it stops around 130 degrees, i tempt. it once (a brisket) and cooking at 150 degrees or so you have roughly 3 to 5 hours to form one...from what I seen last time. So I had that thing smokin the whole time up to internal temp of 130 and still had like a 3/16" sissy smoke ring, lol. whatcha think?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">My thoughts have to do with something I read about called "bacon on a stick." some practitioners of 'que are capable of getting their smoke ring to penetrate a rib to the bone, yielding a bacon flavored rib </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Fortunately it does not yield 'a bacon flavored rib', but, yes, I've gotten rings all the way through.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> My second line of thinking has to do with the smoke ring. I've read much that the ring is purely aesthetic, but I think it has a unique flavor. And if the ring is created by chemical reactions that produce nitrite, like some have suggested, then why wouldn't it have a distinct bacon flavor? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>It's aesthetic and does not have a flavor. It is not the same thing as curing. If you want a distinct cured flavor then you would have to cure it--and that means more than just pink salt. It means a relatively substantial amount of salt as well.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Can a small amount of pink salt, added to a rub, slightly enhance the rosy color of the ring and boost the bacon flavors it creates? can this be done safely? can it be done in moderation so the final product isn't ham? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, yes and yes. It is mostly the salt that creates the flavor of ham, along with time, sugar (in many), and smoke. Curing salt adds a flavor quality as well, but it is dependent on the other variables.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Hey J, and guys, do you know or have you seen if a smoke ring can go deeper then a half inch? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I haven't and wouldn't think it very likely. The reaction dissipates as it works its way in, irrespective of temp.
 
Dan, the way I think of it is that the reaction stops at 130* but the reaction occurs only at the surface. If your internal is 130*, I'll bet your surface is closer to the ambient temp of the wsm.

I've only done high heat briskets. And what I've done, that I think increases the depth of the ring, is to put the brisket in cold, with the wsm preheated to about 150*, and try to get a nice long ramp up to 300*.

IMO, I think your fuel is actually more important to smoke ring formation than the wood (I recall someone saying electric smokers don't make rings without charcoal). I have only done a few lump only burns, but the ring is about half the size when I use briquettes (both lump and briqs were humphrey's).
 
i think thats cool. But im still thinking both of you guys have made ribs w/ rings all the way to the bone... generally some baby backs i cook up have an easy half inch of meat on the top (in sections). I was just thinking if we I paid closer attention maybe even I have, but at least you two guys. doesn't matter I just think it would be cool to defy what I read,
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. I know you already know this but there's some funny stuff out there I read about q'in that just isn't quite true, thanks to this board mostly I guess I know better.
 
I've had rings through ribs and through other, relatively thin meats. I have not had a ring larger than 1/2-inch, give or take, in thick meats. The reaction can only go so far before it dissipates. Ity's a chain reaction, pretty much, that peters out as it gets further in.
 
as long as ur online, good mornin' havn't seen ya for a while, im off to work in the cold, take it easy.
 
I have never noticed a difference in flavor between the smoke ring area and non-smoke ring area. As others have mentioned, the ring is formed by a chemical reaction, but I don't believe it contains more or different flavor.

Personally, I like my ribs to taste like ribs. If I wanted bacon, I would cook bacon.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Can a small amount of pink salt, added to a rub, slightly enhance the rosy color of the ring and boost the bacon flavors it creates? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You're not curing, so the flavor won't be the same if even noticeable.

Paul
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Personally, I like my ribs to taste like ribs. If I wanted bacon, I would cook bacon. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah, but EVERYBODY loves bacon...and at a kcbs comp you can't turn in bacon (well not yet, but I imagine you'll be able to eventually).

Next brisket, I going to make little slices from the ring (just under the bark) and little slices from just under the fat cap, and do a blind taste test. maybe its the bark that's throwing my tasters off.
 
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