"Jim Minion Method" with a little twist.


 
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Just got off the phone with Dave Klose. He called me after reading my email with these smokestack and lump questions.

Dave said exactly as I thought he had. That with an 8" smokestack I should definitely cut back the exhaust cover just like I have been 1/4 to 1/2 way. He said that for regular (smaller) backyard pits, he does recommend that the exhaust cover always be wide open because they only have 4" smokestacks and need all the draft they can get.

As for the Lump coal situation, he said that the main reason people at the royal were adding so much lump was because there was alot of wet or green wood being used that weekend. Dave said that he has seen the wood that I use, it has been garage kept dry, and seasoned for well over a year.

He said that if I am ever getting dark meat, it is because of the small size pieces of wood I have been using (those fist-size chunks I have been trying to use up). Adding enough chunks of small pieces to equal a large firewood size piece of wood makes the fire hotter, and puts out more of the thick, white smoke. So, by adding the same amount of wood in small chunks, I am getting the pit hotter and producing more smoke than I would have with 1 log that equals the same amount of wood.

I need to use less of the small chunks or switch to using regular-size firewood pieces. the reason I have been using the small chunks is because I cut a bunch that size when I bought my Cookshack smoker and WSM's, not realizing that that much wood would probably take 20 years to use up with those smokers. So, when I bought my Klose pit I figured I would use up that wood before starting on my regular-cut pieces.

It's hard to estimate how many small chunks will equal a full size piece of wood. They start up faster and hotter, and they also burn up faster, so you have to keep adding more chunks, more often. It is much harder to keep a steady pit temp this way...but I have been doing it pretty well. But obviously, the output of smoke from these small chunks is much greater than full-size logs, so I have been supersaturating my meat with the thick, white smoke. Probably much more than necessary.

Another reason some of my meat has been getting dark is from the dry rubs that contain alot of sugar, and there have been a few times I experimented with rib glazes that had high amounts of brown sugar. These glazes were dark brown in color and so when I added it to the ribs, they instantly became very dark. They had not been overcooked or burnt like so many people assumed when they saw my posted pictures. they were just very dark from the glaze.

I have definitely cut back on the amount of wood chunks I use in my WSM's as well. I used to use 10 or more fist size chunks, now I only use maybe 3 or 4...or maybe 5 or 6 even smaller pieces half that size.

Sorry about this long post, just wanted to clear things up. Dave definitely said to cut back my exhaust cover because of the 8" size and that I have been doing it right.

He said I could add more lump if I want but that as long as my wood is well-seasoned and dry...it isn't necessary for preventing dark meat.

I do need to modify the amount of small chunks of wood I use or switch to regular size pieces.

I might experiment using more Lump and less wood just to see how things turn out though.
 
Rocky
I also cook on David's pits, a couple of things:
All the small pieces have dried out beyond what I would call ideal BBQ material for an offset, once the moisture level get's that low they will burn hotter and to control pit temps you have to close the firebox vents but more than likely you will have to shut down the stack some also.
I've seen pictures of your pit and an eight inch stack seems a little big. The reason David is saying to close the vent 1/4 of the way or more is to get the draft corrected for the size of your pit. Also you have to maintain the firebox at a higher temp to get the horizonal at the temp you want. Offsets move a tremendous amount of hot air and your case with the larger stack more than normal. This hot air is what is turn the meat black, yes it's the sugars are what are turning black, but the reason is because the firebox temps are higher than what you want.
Taking picture once an hour is also causing you problems. When you open the firebox to add the lump it should only take seconds, close it back up and you keep the heat spikes down to a managable level.
Look, these are things that you learn over a long period of cooking on a cooker, take what you want and try the some different methods of controling the pit temps,
1st try using logs and see what a difference it makes.
2nd Take pictures at the start, halfway or longer and at the end of the cook.
3rd Try to keep a steadier control of pit temps by not opening the pit except when it's necessary.
See if these things make a difference if they don't, come back and talk.
Jim
 
I don't own a Klose and I don't know much about them, but why do they put a that large of a stack on them if you are suppose to keep it choked?

Also I add unlit lump to my offset.
 
Hey Jim,
I never requested an 8" stack. Dave specifically recommended it. I asked him what size he was going to have them put on the pit and he thought for a few seconds and then said "definitely an 8" stack. I had nothing to do with this decision and didn't know what size to suggest anyway.

I think I recall Dave saying that the mobile 24" pits have two 6" stacks...and that he felt that one 8" stack would be perfect for this pit.

I asked him if he felt that a 6" stack would be better, and he just laughed and said.."No, the bigger the better, you can't have too big of a smokestack".

I had absolutely no idea what size smokestacks were put on the Klose pits. dave said that 4" stacks are the standard size for most backyard pits, and that is why he recommends keeping those smokestacks wide open all the time....because they need all the airflow they can get. Maybe, he was even hinting that he felt they should use bigger size stacks on the regular backyard pits.

Yes, I definitely will be using less of the smaller chunks of wood and switching to the regular-size logs soon.

I don't really think you have to keep the 8" stack choked, I have tried it both ways and it really didn't affect the temp control one way or the other...I just assumed that the meat would get to have better/more prolonged contact with the smoke this way instead of it rushing right out the stack so fast. Maybe that was wrong to think that since too much smoke isn't good. I'm not really sure what Dave's reasons are for suggesting to keep the stack choked. Either way works fine with my pit and doesn't affect the temp at all. It doesn't get any hotter when I open the stack wide open.

Thanks for your input Jim.
 
Rocky
As I said "seem to remember" you had asked for the 8" stack, I was going from memory and I'm old, it doesn't work as good sometimes as it did in the past. It wasn't a statement in fact.
Dave's reason ( I believe) for asking the stack to be choked down is that it is dumping heat too quickly. A 6" stack in your case may have been on the bottom end of the size needed so by going with an 8" and choking it down corrects the problem. Your mission is to figure out what those settings are, how much charcoal, what size logs to use and how often they need to be added to maintain your temps.
All the pictures are making your job much harder.
There is a reason that people are offering you help and suggestions, it's because we been there and know the problems you are having when you first get a large offset. The statement "I have tried it both ways (open or choked stack) and it really didn't affect the temp control one way or the other" does lead me to believe that you still haven't got the whole fire control process down, but with only 4 months of cooking on an offset fire control is the hardest thing to learn.
Like I said, we all where there, you'll figure it out.
Jim
 
Hi Jim,
Thanks for the help. When I said that I tried it both ways, I meant that when I first got the pit, I was checking to see if that was a possible method for controlling the pit temp. It really wasn't. But I did keep the stack choked back anyway because the air wasn't rushing out so fast that way. I just made that comment because some people think that you can control the pit temp by throttling back the stack. Maybe it works with some pits, but not with mine. Well, I'm sure if you throttled it back almost closed it would, I never choked it more than 50%.

The only problems I have had with the temp/fire control seems to be from using those small chunks of wood. I have been throttling back the stack in the recommended way and still getting meat a little darker than I want sometimes, so I think switching to regular size logs and not opening the door as often will help with the darkness situation.

Do you think I should add Lump during my cooks? or just to get the fire going....and then add 1 regular-size log as needed?

I think that when you recall my requesting modifications to my pit when I ordered it, was when I requested that they put on 1 door instead of 2.
The only other additions/modifications I requested were the 2 pullout racks, stainless steel firegrate, ball-valve drain, and tuning.

You have been a big help Jim, I really appreciate you taking the time to give your advice.
 
Rocky
I cook on the same size pit but with an upright, it has a 6" stack we use charcoal as the main fuel source and will throw on a log with the charcoal. A weber chimney full of charcoal and one piece of a log (18" log that is split into 1/4 or 1/3). Depending on condition possibly the whole unsplit log.
You will need to add this charcoal log combo aprox every hour to hour and half and again this based on the weather conditions.
try it and let us know if it works.
Jim
PS: Low N Slow this isn't arguing, just trying to give a hand. If I where a better writer than I am it would more than likely make it easier.
Many of us cook on more than one style of pit and would be more than happy pass on that info if you wish.
 
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