I hate sand!!! (long - sorry...)


 
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Rick Moore

TVWBB Super Fan
I don't know who uses/likes sand and what they do different than I have tried BUT, I will NEVER use sand again. I'll just go through my current attempt - since it is the most recent and well researched.

After several attempts with sand with poor results (way too high temps), I decided to research it on here a little more for this attempt. This time I was smoking 2 butts overnight (14# total) - started the coals at 8:00 pm. I started my WSM using the Minion method - mild temps and light winds so I used 20 lit briquettes - I left all vents 100% open until I got to 200 (40 min) and then closed all to 25% open. When I reached 215 (another 20 min), I shut 2 vents completely. Trying to control temps on the way up. At 225 (about 30 min more) I closed the 3rd vent. At 250 (another 30 min), I shut the top vent - I know this is a major no-no, but I didn't want my butts to be done at 3 am after about 6 hours... /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif So I watched the temp on my ET-73 while I was watching tv. I set my max temp to 275 and my min temp to 215. Well, I fell asleep. The temp never got to 275, but it was pretty darn close when I woke up about 2 am...at 7am I was down to about 250. I decided to go take a peek at my other therm to make sure it was reading the same...yup you guessed it, it wasn't in the smoker because I fell asleep with the top vent CLOSED! /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif So with ALL vents closed, somehow I could not choke this fire out enough to maintain a low temp - or at least what I was after - 225.

I have read all the stuff about air coming in through the access door, not having a tight fit, etc. But this is a very seasoned WSM - good tight fit everywhere - except maybe a little loose at the door. Certainly not enough of an issue that I shouldn't be able to put the coals out with a 100% closed vent system - top and bottom.

Now I am here more to rant about this than anything. Because unless someone tells me I screwed up in a mjor way somewhere in the process, I'll never be using sand again. I never had this problem with water. The only thing is, I'll definitely do the water pan mod so that I can get 4-6 hours out of a full water pan instead of about 3-4 hours. At least then I can sleep almost through the night without having to fill the water pan. The only drawback is clean up - man it was easy with sand...

Hopefully the closed top vent isn't going to make my butts taste like crap...at least this is for me and the wife and not a bunch of friends coming over - so if it is messed up, it is a $20 lesson...

Disclaimer: If you like sand and are having great success with it, I'm happy for you. It just isn't for me... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
 
Hi Rick,

I feel your pain concerning the sand... I've had mixed results with it.

Too many people have good luck with it to discount it as a workable method, but I find it more difficult to control. What I did discover though, is that controling the temps on the way up is a bit like stopping a locomotive... you've got to put the brakes on way ahead of time. With sand and the Minion Method, I usually close all the bottom vents except one when the temp reaches 180*. The rest of the cook is done using only that one open vent, until the very end if I start losing heat.

If the temp gets away from you in the beginning, it will be a very frustrating cook. Hard to bring those temps down once you get lots of coals lit.

For me the verdict is still out on sand, like I said, I've had good luck and bad with it. Clean up sure is better and not having to worry about the water pan drying up is good.

I've got a guru now, so I think my worries about the pan are over.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kevin W:
[qb] Save the sand for the cat. [/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Nah, thats not enuff to bury it... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


Don Marco


I like cats, but i couldnt eat a whole one..
 
Rick--

I reluctantly switched from water to sand. I use a Brinkman charcoal pan filled to about 1.25" from the top with sand. I use the Minion Method no matter what I cook. If cooking ribs I pour about 3/4 Weber chimney of hot coals over a ring about 3/4 full of unlit charcoal. For butts (longer cooks) I use a full chimney of lit over a full ring of unlit.

I always have the top vent wide open and start with bottom vents about 1/2 open, then adjust them according to how fast the temp is rising. If I'm shooting for 250 degrees I usually close them to about 1/8 or less at about 235-240 degrees and kinda fine tune from there.

I'm in a warm part of the country and I've never had any trouble with fairly constant temps when using sand. Maybe the difference is in the mass of the sand in a Brinkman pan and the mass of sand in the much shallower Weber pan. If the water pan mod you're referring to is the Brinkman charcoal pan, I'd recommend you to get one and try it with sand and if you still aren't satisfied, use it with water.

I'll probably never go back to water--its just too easy to fold up that foil and pitch it and I think temps stay MORE constant.

Tom

"The only people that never make a mistake are those who aren't doing anything."
 
I guess I might be willing to try sand again with the Brinkman charcoal pan... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I can see the benefit of that much more sand...but still, once it gets up to temp, it doesn't matter how much sand there is.

One other thing I'm hearing is that maybe you don't start up the WSM using the Minion Method in the method outlined on this site. Because it specifically states to keep the vents open 100% until you get to 200*. So maybe that is the last variable I haven't done right...use much smaller vent openings when starting with sand.

Man, just when I thought my internal debate of sand vs. water was over there is more experimenting to do...just another reason to thrown a few more butts on! Or maybe this time it will be brisket...

Thanks to all for the info!
 
Rick
A couple of things that may make using sand easier for you. Don't start out with 20 burning coals, try 10, and put the meat on right away.

No need to the pit up to temp and then turn down the vents, whats happening is you are getting to much charcoal burning and then your trying to shut it down, very hard to achieve.

Since smokering is achieved while the meat is at lower temps, use this pit warmup period to get the smokering formed. It is ok if it takes a couple of hours to get the pit temp up to 225 to 250? and lower vent settings will allow you to maintain those temps. There is always a way to make it these WSMs work this way and Tom's will both work.

Jim
 
Rick, if you do more experimenting and you do find that your revised technique with sand works, I hope you post to this thread. Some of us are curious as to your results as to what finally made it work for you. So far, I've found water still works best for me ... but, it gets tedious always having to refill.

Anyway, I'd probably just keep experimenting using the butts. The brisket is just a little to expensive and finicky to experiment with (I think). Good luck ... most of all, keep having fun!
 
Since day one I've only ever used a Brinkmann Charcoal pan full of water. Many happy customers and a few awards later, I see no need to change my WSM setup.
 
Water, Sand, Water, Sand. Seems to be one of the larger areas of disagreement in this forum. I feel the moisture and the fact it is hard to make water hotter than 212* make it the right choice. I have had the water pan drop into the coals once that is one time sand is alot better than water. I would be curious to know what the ratio of water to sand users in competion? How about winners? I have seen many posts from Konrad, I don't know him but like a few others (Jim Minon, Kevin Taylor, too many more to mention) I pay real attention to what they say. I please ask these people (Chris, Jim, Kevin, et.) what do you use?
 
I used water for 10 years and have used sand for the last 6 months and have not reverted back. My main reason was to see if I could get a longer burn for overnighters and I believe I have. Certainly the key is not just controlling the temp on the way up but, but controlling the rate at which the temp rises. As someone said, staying at the lower temp will enhance the smokering effect so my advise would be to start cutting the vents back before 200. Dave Lewis had a good post on this but I couldn't locate it. Temp control has a lot of variables and just when you think you've got it nailed, something will change. Unfortunately, with sand, if temp gets out of control it is extremly difficult to remedy.
 
I decided to try sand last summer. I haven't used water since, just way too convient. For everything I smoke I put new foil on top of sand to catch drippings. Fill ring with Kingsford, and put fifteen to twenty white hot coals evenly on top. I only use two of the vents to control temp the other always stays closed. The two vents are opened just a very little bit. I then put my smoke wood on top of the coals, put my meat on and forget about it. I might look at the temp in an hour or so just because. I did a 8lb. butt overnight and the temp stayed at 225-230 for 16 hours. I agree with Jim, let the smoker go, it will reach temp. Don't try to bring it down.

Good Q'in
Chach
 
I used water for the first 6 years in the WSM. I switched a couple years ago and don't envision going back.

As Jim M. mentioned earlier, put the meat on as soon as you light the coals. I also start closing my vents when I see it get to 180?..especially if the rate of ascent is fast.

I also believe the secret is gauging how many coals to light. That is the hardest part as no one can advise you on this! The ambient weather conditions, meat load, etc play a huge role.

Last weekend I cooked 32 lbs. of butt. I used a FULL chimney of lit briqs and stabilized my temp just fine. Other times I use 10-15 to get it started.

The ONLY reason I went to water was because I cook quite a bit off-site...comps and catering. It is sometimes very difficult to find a water source and then find somewhere to dump it. I am willing to bet if I didn't travel, I would still be using water.

In the end....do whatever is easiest for you!
 
Sand does indeed behave different conrol-wise than using water in the pan. With water, I used to let the WSM get above my target temp before putting on the food, knowing it would drop 25 degrees or so and then stabilize. With sand, that technique doesn't work- the temp stays above target and is difficult to get back down.

With sand, I bring the temps up slowly with bottom vent adjustments to target, and don't allow it to overshoot. And even more complicated, it behaves differently with lump versus Kingsford.

Once at target with sand, I find that the first 10-12 hours of the cook I have only one bottom vent open about 25% (top vent 100% open) to keep 225-250 F with Kingsford-- even less with lump. I then usually have to open the vents a little more. However, I consitently get 16+ hour cooks with sand with only a few minor vent adjustments.

Sand does have a learning curve (as does water), but once you've done a few cooks, it is repeatable. If you do a lot of long cooks like I do (brisket and pork shoulder) sand and a wireless Maverick smoker monitor give you a good nite's sleep, which makes the learning process worth it.

Clark
 
Thanks to all for the comments and suggestions. I guess since butts are my favorite - and I always do at least 2 - and overnighters have become more and more common - I really need to keep trying the sand for a few more times.

I have the ET-73 and it is by far my best tool purchase - other than the WSM itself! - even though it does have its flaws - like everything does. Also, I did put my meat on right at the start up of the coals - I had read a lot about the smokering forming best and tried it that way this time. It did have a very nice smokering.

Looks like I won't be dismissing sand quite yet and will certainly post back with my procedure, hints and tips if all goes well.
 
Before getting the Guru, I did nothing but sand because I don't like dinking with adding water (especially on an overniter). You may need to use more sand, sounds to me like, and only start with one vent open...confirming what others have already said on this thread.

That said, I HAVE had runaway temps with sand upon occasion (real hot days usually), in which case I just add water to the pan, and that fixes it quickly. Don't give up on sand, it's perfect in the winter, but water might be better on VERY hot days.
 
i did a pair of butts about a week ago. Didn't use the pan at all. Since there wasn't the mass of the water or sand, temps responded rather quickly. Maintained 250* rather easily and the kingsford produced enough ash to soak up the drippings that didn't burn up. Taste was quit good also, but a little more smokey than usual. I'll cut down on the smoke wood next time.
 
I just dump a lot of water into the sand and cover with foil to catch the drippings. It seems to slow the runaway temps quite well.
 
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