Heat control problem

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Good afternoon,

I did my 5th cook with my WSM and i am still having a hard time keeping the initial temps below 300. I started the cook at 10:00 p.m. on Sat. night. I used the minion method as i was doing a 10 lb. pork shoulder. I filled the ring with unlit kingsford and my smoke wood and then took 20 briquits back out and started them up in the chimney starter. Once they were going, i spread them out on the unlit pieces. I had the bottom vents open 100% and the top open as well. In less than an hour the temp measured through the top was 318 even with the water bin totally full.
I closed the three bottom grates all the way and then took temps over the next 3 hours. They were 300, 280,259. Over the next several hours the temps dropped slowly till they hit 180 at about 7:00 in the morning. The only thing i can think of is that i have air leaks. The access door definitley does not fit super tight to the side of the middle section but all other fittings are nice and tight. The only way i have found so far to keep the temp around 200-225 is to use a little fuel at a time but that is a pain because i have add coals fairly often. Any ideas would be appreciated.
p.s. the pork came out awesome, the internal temp never got above 173 but the flavor was fantastic and it pulled apart no problem. definately a make again.
 
Eric--
Much easier to control the temps on the way up. When you're reaching 200 lid start closing vents. For me, I go to one closed, and 2 about 20% open. I adjust from there if needed after I see what's what. Within 20-25 min I'll know, Rarely do I even hit 260.
 
Eric,

It sounds to me that you waited until your temp was 318 to close down your vents. You must control your temps on the way up as opposed to fighting them to go down.

When your lid temp reached 200, you close down your bottom vents to 50%, when it reaches 215 close them down to just barely open, you cooker should settle in nicely around 235-245.

If it goes higher than that, you can always close them completely, then make minor adjustments to get the temp where you want it.

With the Minion Method you control temps on the way up, it makes life much easier.
 
Thanks for the replies. If i understand both of you, you believe it would not have gotten that high if i closed the vents earlier in the ramp up. Do you think the access door has anything to do with this?
 
Obviously every WSM is different. I have done about 6 or 7 overnight's using the Minion method, water in the pan, and my temp struggles to get over 250 dome temp. I have to adjust the side cover to allow more air to get higher temps. I have never closed or adjusted a bottom vent because my high end temp is close to my target temp for most cooks. I am constantly fighting low temps towards the end of long cooks even as I allow the water pan to run dry.
 
Eric--

Yes, you understand correctly. Start closing them on the way up as you near 200. As you can see by the difference between what Bruce and I do the precise timing and vent settings can vary by cooker, conditions, and preference. I doubt you have an access door issue. Mine is not airtight by any means.

David--

Are you seeking higher temps than 250? If so, you may want to switch to sand, perhaps using less of it depending on what temp you're looking for. If not, well, the two conditions I've found that have caused me to fight low temps at the end of a long cook are inadequate amouint or starting fuel (my cooks can be rather long, I've learned to overfill my ring), and ash build up on the coal grate, necessitating a good stir to get the ash to fall through and open up needed air space.
 
David,
Are you setting the water pan directly on top of the coals? I sometimes have problems at the end of a long cook but that has usually been caused by the brand of charcoal I use.

Art
 
I am putting the water pan in it's predetermined spot and I always use Kinsford. I once tried to use WalMart brand 33% larger briquets but I couldn't get any consisitant heat from them. I am not trying to get above 250 just curious if I was doing something different/incorrect that I was not experiencing the higher temps that Eric and some other people fight or never having to adjust the bottom vents. I read Eric used water in his pan also. My cook last night, pork butt(2-7lbs), a 9lb brisket, and 3 racks of spares took 17 hours for pork, 13 hours for brisket and 6.5 hours for spares. Filled water pan twice, went through 1-22lb bag of Kinsford plus about 1 chimney worth of another bag. Started pork @ 10:30pm, brisket @ 12:30am was about 35 degrees overnight, very little wind, but light rain started about 5am until around noon. Temp stayed pretty steady between 250 and 225 dome temp. I could keep the temp around 250 towards the 15th and 16th hours but I would have to rig the side door(or take it off for 15 minutes at a time) to allow more air flow. Does this sound like a normal cook to you pertaining to fuel, temp, and water?
 
That is more fuel than I use but we rarely drop into the 30s at night. Rain I get, and that has upped fuel consumption when it's been a heavy rain. I do not fill the pan more than once and even then, since it's toward the end of the cook (usually) I don't fill it. I use Brinkmann's larger pan--are you using that or the original Weber pan? Your temps seem very normal to me but I never have to touch the door. As I mentioned above, I do need to stir the coals--usually twice--about 3/4 of the way (or so) through the cook, and again nearer the end. Are you stirring? I also use Kingsford. (Btw, sounds like you cooked a great meal.)
 
Yeah I am using the weber pan. I do stir the coals, I have to adding that much fuel. I think I am going to try sand my next cook to see what my temps do, also I am getting extremely tired of the waterpan mess. I do use foil but all that grease mixed with water still makes for a mess. Any thoughts on sand? Oh yeah, the meal was fantastic, my friends can't quit eating no matter how full they are; ribs and brisket gone and about half the pork. I also have to distribute some to my neighbor who gets/has to smell the Q all night and day(she is a NC native and loves the pulled pork).
 
The Weber pan is the one of choice for using sand. If I changed to sand I'd have critters very angry with me. They're used to me dumping the water/grease and know when i crank the cooker they'll be getting it. I also have water right at my grill so clean-up is easy for me. Many people on this board have switched to sand and would not go back to water. A few (I"ve gathered from reading the posts) have switched back, but not many. Temp stabilization is a little different. You might like it much better. I use sand when I'm on the road and cooking at other people's homes. Clean-up is a breeze. I like it too. I just prefer water at home.
 
Eric
The idea is to control the amount of burning coals, if I'm doing a 225 to 250 degree cook I never use all 3 bottom vents (the vent in the wind I always close) and I never have them open a 100%. I use the time that the pit is climbing to cruising temp to form smokering. I spread the hot coals put the waterpn in place (water or sand) and put the meat on at this point, since smokering is forming while the meat is heating up to aprox 140 internal at which point the reaction stops. By using this proceedure I don't have to worry about over shooting the target temps and smokering is real pretty.
Jim
 
Eric
I'll also add (strangely following Jim's post) that with the Minion Method the amount of charcoal that is lit increases quite quickly if you let it get out of control, as Jim mentioned the idea is to control the amount of burning coals. Those initial 20 briquettes will light another 3 or 4 each within an hour. I usually have the vents almost shut (10% - 25%) after 15 minutes, the temperature will be just above 200*F. After an hour I might have just one vent opened a crack, if I feel the temps have stabilised and they hold steady I know I can leave it for at least 8 hours; I was recording temperatures at 15 minute intervals one night and was bored to death checking the Maverick and writing "- - - - -" under the temp and vent columns for 7 hours, I gave up after two pages and half bottle of Glenmorangie.

morgan
 
Eric
As you can see the Method is easily adaptable with the basic princples remaining the same. Conrol the fire on the way up, we don't want a lot of coals burning.
Morgan I want to come and cook with you, like your style and the whiskey.
Lots of good recomendations here.
Jim
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by david wittrock:
I am putting the water pan in it's predetermined spot and I always use Kinsford. I once tried to use WalMart brand 33% larger briquets but I couldn't get any consisitant heat from them. I am not trying to get above 250 just curious if I was doing something different/incorrect that I was not experiencing the higher temps that Eric and some other people fight or never having to adjust the bottom vents. I read Eric used water in his pan also. My cook last night, pork butt(2-7lbs), a 9lb brisket, and 3 racks of spares took 17 hours for pork, 13 hours for brisket and 6.5 hours for spares. Filled water pan twice, went through 1-22lb bag of Kinsford plus about 1 chimney worth of another bag. Started pork @ 10:30pm, brisket @ 12:30am was about 35 degrees overnight, very little wind, but light rain started about 5am until around noon. Temp stayed pretty steady between 250 and 225 dome temp. I could keep the temp around 250 towards the 15th and 16th hours but I would have to rig the side door(or take it off for 15 minutes at a time) to allow more air flow. Does this sound like a normal cook to you pertaining to fuel, temp, and water? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

David, I usually use approximatley 1 lb. Kingsford per 1 hour of cook time. This is just an approximation. I use the minion method always and I use a Guru. The temps aroundhere also drop to the 20 - 30's. I also use ONLY water in my water pan, which Shot Gun Fred says shouldn't be done. It has never failed me yet. Hope this helps.
 
Thanks again for everyone's input. Nothing as fun as eating your mistakes. well, maybe some things.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jim Minion:
Morgan I want to come and cook with you, like your style and the whiskey.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm truly honoured. Actually, I've thought I be happy just to *watch* you cook when I make it out to visit some friends in Seattle. Tell you what, if you're ever in London I'll buy you pint.

I was really horrified at the idea of unlit charcoal anywhere near the BBQ, the Method has certainly dispelled that. I'd seen people back in California making an "S" with charcoal in a kettle then lighting one end, moving the meat from one side to the other during the cook. It seemed to work for them.

morgan
 
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