First practice chuck roasts - advice?


 
R

Rita Y

TVWBB Emerald Member
I'm getting a late start today on a practice cook of two 2 1/2-pound chuck roasts, 1 3/4 to 2 inches thick. I'll need to serve 25 to 35 people in a couple of weeks (not with what I'm doing today).

I'll foil at 165*F. At 3 hours a pound, I'm guessing they will take about 7 1/2 hours total plus a 2-hour (?) rest.

1) I've seen temps to remove from the WSM (for pulled beef) ranging from 190 to 210*F. Have we arrived at a more specific best temp to aim for yet?

2) Do the chuck roasts need a full 2 hours of resting time in a preheated cooler (or a shut-down WSM or a 150*F?? oven) when cooked this way?

3) Whak kind of yield am I looking at? 50%?

More questions might follow, as I continue with the cook.
Rita
 
Rita,

You've probably read Stogies method more than once, but I'm throwing the link in just in case, and for those that may have not. It answeres most of the questions.

I can't speak from personal experience, but my buddy Bill says it's awesome!

JimT
 
Thanks Jim, Stogie's method is popular and has proven to be great, but I wanted to start mine on the grate instead of in a pan and then foil later because I'm looking for more of a pulled beef than a pot roast style. I believe he actually has two methods. I've been taking notes from the threads and there seems to be some variance in a few approaches, so I thought I'd just dive in and see what happens so I can make adjustments the next time.

Rita
 
Be sure and let us know what you come up with, and how it goes with the "crowd" in a couple of weeks!

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JimT
 
Let's see. I have a chuck resting right now. I would rest 20-30 min only if I was eating early but as friends just called moments ago and will come for dinner after all, I'll rest longer. It is not necessary imo.

I do not subscribe to the 3hr/lb flow but I do not low/slow chucks. You certainly can; I don't. I do not use temp for finishing either. I go for fork tender.

Plan 50% but I get ~60%. I select roasts that are not internally thickly fatted, just very well marbled.

To give you an idea of today's flow in case you're interested:

I used precisely the approach described in this link in terms of the quatre-épices for the rub and the wine/balsamic/sherry reduction. The chuck was 3.2 lbs and thick, about 3" or a bit more (I highly recommend thicker roasts). I used 7 med-small onions, about 1.75 lbs, and 5 cloves of garlic. (Both prepped as in the link.)

I salted the chuck, allowed it to moisten well then applied the q-e. I Minioned the start but used almost twice the amount of lit as usual. I added a little oak and a little cherry. The meat went on at 10:45am (it was 58 internal). The temp eased up nicely and I cooked at 305-311 till 1:10pm when I pulled it to foil. (Its internal was 158. I am not a temp stickler with chucks; it's more of a time thing with me. If the roast was thinner it would the internal would have been higher. I was figuring the cook at around 5 hours so I did not want to go much more than half that unfoiled. It was, as you see, 2:25 unfoiled.)

I don't have foil pans so at the 2-hour mark I made a 'pan' bottom out of two 18" pieces of wide HD stacked together. I put them on a small sheet pan then prepped the onions and garlic. I put half the onions on the foil in the center, tossed them with a little salt and white pepper and the half the garlic, drizzled with half the reduction, and topped with a thyme sprig. I then retrieved the chuck from the smoker, put it atop the onions, piled the rest of the onions on top of it, added the garlic, a little salt, another thyme sprig and the rest of the reduction, then put another 18" foil sheet over all and crimped all together, drawing the crimped edges up so as to create a bowl for the copious juices that will emerge from the chuck and onions.

Returned the chuck package to the cooker and raised the temp (over a bit of time) to ~340. I am not one to check the cooker much nor am I anal about temps so there were fluctuations (I'm sure; some I noticed) but generally the temp was 300-340 over the course of the next segment. At 2:50pm I moved the package to the grill table, carefully uncrimped two sides, then carefully flipped the meat over, nestling it into all the onions. (The liquid was plenty.) So 1:40 for the first foiling segment.

I went another 1:25 (till 4:15pm) and pulled it. I put it on a new sheet of HD, drained about .5 c of the juices over it, wrapped tightly, and it is now resting in the nuker. The onions and rest of the juices will be served with tourné potatoes and whatever else I can think of (gotta look in the fridge and see what I have).

Of course, different spicing, vegs, herbs, etc., can be used (and I do use other rubs, reductions and vegs but always use onion and garlic), but this gives you an idea of how I do them. This is pot roast style. Minor changes for pulled.
 
Jim, I'll be sure to let you know.

Kevin, actually, I've used a combo of spices similar to your Quatre-Épices on some meat some time ago and liked the results, so this time I'm using your mix proportions and was planning to do the onion/garlic layering as well. I'm just getting ready to begin the wine reduction. I wanted to try it today as you suggested (for us, because I know it will be good) but might mix in just a little BBQ sauce when I serve to the crowd (with or without the wine reduction - have to test a small portion to see) - not a firm decision yet, though.

I'm set up for about 225*F pit temp at the moment. I didn't get my meat on until 5 pm (obviously not planning on serving it tonight).

If you have time, can you suggest what to change in order to have pulled beef?

Thanks!
Rita
 
The changes, such as they might be, are minimal and much comes down to whether you are serving straight away or reheating. If reheating, do all as you would--i.e., the meat is like pot roast, tender, able to be shredded. My suggestion is to separate the meat in chunks along its natural fat dividing lines, but scrape the dividing line fat off before storage. Reheat in chunks till hot (wrapped in foil in the oven) then remove a chunk and pull/shred. At this point you can determine if further reheating/rendering is necessary. If the roasts were selected with an eye toward a pulled finish this shouldn't be necessary; pull/shred, then return the meat to the foil or put it in a pot or crock pot and just moisten with previously saved rendered liquids and/or sauce.

Conversely, if you plan to cook and serve straight away, then test the meat when you pull it from the cooker (and when it is still in the foil) and gauge texture/fattiness. Again, if the roasts were selected with an eye to a pulled finish, it is likely they will be fine as is. Either rest (with just a little liquid) and then pull, toss with liquid/sauce, and serve or, if you think it is warranted, pull the meat slightly (i.e., break up the chunks along the natural lines plus a bit more, scrape off residual soft fat) then return the meat to the cooker on a fresh piece of hole-punched foil (no liquid) for maybe 10-15 min to dry a bit (go longer if needed). Pull, loosely wrap in foil to rest 15 min, then moisten with juice/sauce and serve.

A suggestion: If you go with the q-e and the reduction you might consider a deconstructed Q sauce addition if you'd like the 'Q' sort of thing happening. Perhaps take some grated fresh tomato (or a little canned) and mix it with some pineapple juice in a pot. Cook then reduce till thick(ish). Lightly salt and pepper then add a touch of brown sugar (or honey or molasses or a little of each), a dollop of mustard (Dijon would be preferable and go light at first), and a sprinkling of your best ground chile or chili powder. Heat gently, stirring well to combine, then add a little of this along with a little of the rendered juices. The components of the q-e, the onion/garlic mix and the reduction are all found in many Q sauces (okay, maybe not the wine or sherry but you get my drift). The combined additional elements noted (tomato, pineapple, sweetener, mustard, chile) finish the mix but do so in a fresher sort of way and, I think, add brighter, higher notes to what might be, in another approach, verging on overcooked/tired (do you know what I mean?). I'd keep the addition to the pulled meat minimal--a moistener only--but use your best judgement vis-a-vis your guests/clients expectations. A few drops (literally) of lemon would not be unwelcome.

For service this evening I separated the roast along the natural lines, split those chunks in two or three, then placed a couple chunks on the plate and pulled it just a little bit (mostly leaving the chunk(s) intact). I topped the meat with several spoonsful of the onion/garlic mix, fanned roasted asparagus off of the meat and topped the asparagus with just-tender julienned carrot. Three tourné potatoes (previously cooked just till tender in salted water) sauteed in duck fat till browned all over were set between the asparagus and meat. It was a very good dinner.
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Kevin, it's half past midnight or later and I'm about to take the foiled meat off my WSM. I'm going to let it rest for 30-45 min, skim the fat, and refrigerate overnight.

A few minutes ago I snagged a small piece of the meat, which twisted easily with a fork, and I'm very pleased with the flavors at his point. The Quatre-Épices is a really great choice for the chuck. I'd been wondering if I could incorporate some acid such as pineapple (really, I'm not kidding about your penchant for pineapple) but because it just seems so right here, and after that, the flavors seem to cry for a squeeze of lemon too, for brightness. Will go at it one step at a time.

Thanks for taking the time to give so much good help, especially after cooking for your own dinner and guests.

While the chuck roasts were finishing, I had to make something for dinner for the two of us, so I shifted gears and made a stir-fry from the frozen chain of the beef tenderloin I smoked for my daughter's engagement party - the stir-fry turned out quite edible.

You paint a very enticing picture of your dinner plating. I can almost taste the completmentary flavors. I'm taking notes! More on my cook and your generous ideas tomorrow.

Rita
 
The q-e flavors are barbecue-base writ large, no? I think something deconstructed would be just the ticket. Pineapple (of course
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) comes to mind but other fruits would work too. It works so well with the q-e flavors, smoke and meat though.

The plating was simple and the flavors worked well. The thyme addition to the onions (one of those matches from culinary heaven) also worked well with the potatoes (bay would too) as it is great with the flavor of duck fat. The asparagus added the right green flavor note (peas would too) to cut through the richness of the beef, as an acid would. I was pulling my vac'd duck legs out of the ice water chill as you were posting. They look like one would expect, colorless from cooking at no higher than 182, vac'd in a bag the whole time, but they should crisp well. I can't wait.

I am quite sure your stir-fry was quite more than 'edible'!
 
Oh yes, large flavors there! A little of that seasoning goes a long way, but it certainly brings out the beefy flavor.

I was thinking about pulling half of the meat and incorporating some of your KC-Style Sauce and serving more on the side if desired. I'll have to see if there is enough pineapple in it to get "that special" flavor going.

And I'd like to try serving the other half in chunks or slices, if it doesn't fall apart. The meat re-absorbed quite a lot of the juices, as you mentioned, but I have those nice onions and would like to build a sauce/gravy around what's left, maybe adding more reduction? That reduction was really good! I'll have to taste the juices after I reheat the meat to see which direction I'll want to go. Any suggestions?

I haven't finished entering my notes, but so far: I began with two 2 1/2-pound beef chuck roasts, which yielded 2.9 pounds of cooked meat (a 57.3% yield). They cooked at about 225*F with 50/50 hickory and oak for 4 hours on the grate (to about 160*F internal), then in a covered foil pan with the onions and reduction for 4 hours more until tender. The final internal temp was about 208*F.

I might try pecan next time. What kind of smokewood is everyone using for chuck roast?

Rita
 
I finally got a dinner on the table after researching a potato dish that I could do easily for a crowd that would complement the BBQ chuck roast. More on the potato dish later.....

I gently nuked (gradually, at 20% power) some of the chuck roast I smoked (fairly close to Kevin's method) yesterday. I knew that Kevin's KC-Style Sauce (link above) would be good with it, but thought I might have to add more pineapple, but let me tell you.... it was a knockout just as it was! I won't be making any adjustments at all. I put just a little of the sauce on the meat before nuking it as above and served the rest of the sauce on the side, but it wasn't needed or used. My first experiment into pulled beef turned out great! I'm going to have a hard time trying any other approach. Thanks, Kevin!

P.S. I used 1 1/2 tablespoons of the Quatre-Épices for 5 pounds of chuck (1 scant teaspoon per pound). I liked it as is, but I will probably use 3/4 teaspoon per pound when cooking for a large group of folks whom I don't know.

I'd appreciate hearing about your experiences about seasoning for strangers/general public.

Rita
 
Funny, just yesterday I let the wife talk me out of smoking a chuck roast.
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I ended up making it in the crock pot. Nine hours in the pot and it simply fell apart as I took it out.
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Much better then the last time I made it. Reading through this thread I wish I had smoked it though.
 
Used Kev's Q-E method for some really beutiful beef short ribs a few weeks ago. "Death by Ribs" is a stunning sight to behold
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Toyed with short ribs the other day but the market's selection was abysmal; got the chuck instead.

Dan, give it a shot. At higher cook temps my 3.2-pounder took 5.5 hours, Rita's 2.5s took 8. Try it both ways and see what you think.

Rita, I used oak and apple, pellets from Candy, one packet each, and thought it just enough. Pecan would be very good, imo.

I'm glad you like the the KC sauce with it. Very complementary flavors; good to know the pineapple was sufficient.

If you wanted to build a sauce with the juices and onions (or just the juices) an idea would be to add some Morello or Montmorency cherries and Dijon puree it, or use a little cherry preserves. Another would be to mash in some roasted garlic with a little Dijon and, perhaps, a very little bit of sage.

As for spice quantities for strangers: It's hard to say. I knock it back (sometimes) if I think the flavors might be a bit 'foreign' but most people who hire me either know my food or my rep and so I tend to just go with what I'd do for myself. There have been a few times where I was cooking for unknown people and I do reduce quantities a little if what I'm doing is off the proverbial beaten track. Go with your gut.
 
Great suggestions, Kevin. I only used enough meat for 2 meals last night, so I have plenty left to play with. I'll look for the cherries today and will try the roasted garlic-Dijon idea too.

I'll be cooking at least 20 pounds of chuck roasts in a couple of weeks and if I can't talk the butcher into cutting them thicker, I'll have to use 2 extender grates, which should work out fine.

These folks get plenty of coleslaw and beans at other meals during their 2-week stay so I'm trying to find different ideas for sides. I made a quick, fairly lean potato gratin (not rich) last night which was great with the meat and will probably serve that unless a better idea comes along.

I just need a vegetable side, probably simple steamed, but the problem is that I'll have no kitchen facilities to reheat. Possibly a medium-size microwave.

Rita
 
Rita, there are different cuts of Chuck Roast, I believe the Blade or Eye cuts are preferred. I used a 7 Bone cut which is less tender than the above cuts and it came out fork tender by adding the meat to a covered foil pan about half way through along with red wine and minced onion and garlic.

See my post at: Chuck Roast

I would not suggest adding more grates if possible but try and get 4 thicker pieces a 5 pounds each, placing two on each grate.

If you have to add more grates, do the dry run on a cook with more grates. I found that adding more grates may impact the timing and quality of the cook.

John
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I just need a vegetable side </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Whole sugar snap peas. Even people who don't like peas usually like sugar snaps. Unlike snow peas, snaps can be blanched (lid off!) then ice water chilled, drained, fridged and reheated (even in a microwave) without overcooking. 4 or 5 on a plate, perhaps with a carrot curl (or red pepper curl) for additional plate color and you're good to go.

Another option would be 'Italian' flat green beans--the frozen ones are usually very good quality.
 
John, thanks for the grate/level info and other notes. All good points.

Kevin, I never thought of sugar snaps - great idea flavorwise and visually too.

Question: How do Italian green beans compare to pole beans? I've always loved pole beans for their superior flavor (over green beans) in spite of having to string them.

I'm baring my soul here, which might help others who won't admit it: My creativity level seems to be as low as I've ever experienced it after processing my daughter's wedding (big success). I think about menus and can't seem to get them together. Temporarily (I hope) burnt out???

Compounded is the minimal kitchen facilities (none) and heating options (1 microwave) to serve 30-40 folks. I just bought a couple of chafers and have a heatable cooler to transport some of the oven-preheated food at 150-160*F for an hour's drive before serving. (Not complaining here...just the way it is.)

A gracious good plenty of thanks for all the help!

Rita
 
Flats are usually nice and meaty though a bit milder than poles but bean-ier than young snaps.

One of the things I like about sugar snaps is that people are so often (pleasantly) surprised to see them. Though often available fresh and always available frozen, many never think to purchase them and so only have them at finer restaurants or when some knowledgeable host or hostess (
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) chooses to serve them.
 
Kevin,
When you get your cast iron pot,try this again?
I am seriously doing another butt in mine since my local porkmonger has them for.99/lb. Big drawback is 90 deg+ temps for the next week or so. Takes a lot of the fun out of cooking.
 
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