Chicken marinade question


 
M

michele p

TVWBB Pro
I want to marinade, then grill some chicken cutlets in EVOO, garlic, rosemary, kosher salt, pepper and fresh Lemon juice.
I know that the acid in the lemon juice can begin to cook the meat.
How long is 'too long' to marinade in this type of mix?

Also, if anyone has another herb you think I should add, I am open to suggestions.
 
It depends a bit on how thick the chicken is as well as how much lemon juice but generally speaking I'd go a couple hours.

Rosemary is my favorite herb so I probably wouldn't change that but oregano does go excellent with lemon.

Clark
 
I love rosemary but it can get overpowering if used to excess. Oregano would go well here as would marjoram (not too much), parsley and or thyme. If you keep the lemon amount reasonable you can marinate a while. One way to do that is use less juice but plenty of zest. That gets you lemon flavor but with less acids allowing you to extend the marinating time. If you use a little Dijon it will act as an emulsifier when you mix the marinade (use a blender or the like). This will help the marinade cling well so the flavors have a better chance or permeating the meat.

Flavor penetration can take some time so if you can keep the acids low you can marinate longer, as noted. But with increased marinating time it is important not to overdo the key flavor ingredients (all the strong stuff) so as not to overbuild these flavors causing you to lose the chickeniness of the chicken.
 
Kevin, with tregards to the rosemary. When you say "in excess" do you mean on quantity or time the meat is in the marinade?
 
Quantity is usually the problem. Though obviously a different flavor, fresh rosemary rivals fresh garlic (which I also love) in terms of potency, number of flavor volatiles and distinctiveness of flavor imparted. A lot of either can overwhelm more delicately flavored foods--especially chicken breast and seafoods, but I've even had over-rosemaried lamb. Rosemary's flavor does not change much with cooking. It softens a little, but unlike garlic whose flavor not only softens but sweetens and blends during cooking (which is why 'garlic chicken' and 'garlic shrimp' can work so well), rosemary doesn't lose much in the way of potency nor distinctiveness.

One way to cheat this--to give the illusion of a softening of rosemary's flavor--is to use flavor elements that do soften during cooking. Garlic, as noted, is one (and has the added benefit of sweetening, if cooked correctly), as are onion, shallot, lemon and a few herbs. As these items' flavors soften during cooking the overall profile softens, usually a good thing, and, when one then adds in the flavors of the meat (and especially the caramelized flavors from the meat's surface browning), the profile is complete.

(Note that lemon is another that can overwhelm.)
 
Do you think I should skip the lemon and rosemary altogether? Maybe vinegar is a better option? Along with oregano and garlic?.
I like the idea of shallots.

I have had some really tender and juicy grilled marinated chicken cutlets, and I have also had (and made) some that are dry and flavorless. I am trying to experiment to find the right combo.
 
Just a thought...
I am currently brining a 4 1/2 pound chicken to grill later, according to the Brined Whole Chicken recipe in the Weber Real Grilling Book.
1 cup sugar
1cup kosher salt
1 Tbsp dried Thyme
Juice of 2 lemons
1 Gallon of H20

Would this be something that could also be used for chicken cutlets, or are they to thin to handle this?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Do you think I should skip the lemon and rosemary altogether? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh, my, no. Rosemary and lemon are terrific with chicken. My point is just to be careful with quantities, especially whem marinating something with lighter, more delicate flavors, like b/s chicken. You can always scale up when marinating something more assertively flavored--even skin-on grill-roasted chicken can take more from a marinade because the browning that occurs to skin is more flavorful, less nuanced than that which occurs to b/s breasts. (There are ways to cheat the finish if you discover that you want a bit more flavor.*)

You need not make a copious amount of marinade. Enough to coat and then pool here and there in the Zip-loc is sufficient. (Using a FoodSaver and vacuuming let's you get away with even less.)

One trick to use when marinating something delicate with items that are assertively flavored is to use less of them, as noted above, or to make sure to remove the stronger items from the surface of the items you're marinating before cooking. As exanples: for the former you'd use a small amount of rosemary leaves and, say, garlic, and mince very finely; for the latter you'd use more but you wouldn't mince at all, just crush to allow some flavor release. The same would go for other fresh herbs like sage, marjoram, oregano, basil and parsley. These, minced finely or not, and especially the last two, don't come across anywhere near as potent as a rosemary leaf or a chunk of garlic do, should you bite into a larger piece of one of those herbs.


* You can garnish with a key element or teo of the marinade. E.g., you can lay a slice of lemon or a sprig of rosemary--or both--directly on the chicken at service. This way the heat releases some flavor volatiles and these waft up and become part of the plates aroma. Since we taste first by smelling, this can create an illusion of more flavor--but without having these stronger flavors ctually in the chicken.

Another way (and one I use very frequently) is to make a finishing baste/sauce out of pretty much the same ingredients as were in the marinade but proportioned differently. I cook or heat these ingredients and most often finish with butter, emulsifying. When the chicken (or shrimp or fish--I di this often with these three) is done, I paint with this baste then immediately remove my platter. (Chicken cutlets and shrimp cool quickly so have the platter warm and the rest of the food pretty much plated and ready to go; serve immediately. Chicken breasts and fish can go longer but I still serve fairly promptly.)
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Would this be something that could also be used for chicken cutlets, or are they to thin to handle this? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, you could. I dislike all that sugar in a brine like that one (I'd use none; in some for chicken I might go with 1/4 c but no more) but that's me.

You could brine cutlets in that but they's only need an hour.
 
A question I had for you earlier but had to quickly close: Why cutlets? Why not b/s breasts instead? Though breasts are far from 'forgiving' they are certainly moreso than cutlets.

Anyway, also earlier, I'd planned to post this suggestion:

Cut a lemon in half, squeeze the juice of one half into a small bowl; reserve the juice for later. Put the lemon half into a large Zip-loc then, with the lemon half at the bottom of the bag, mash the half a bit through the bag with the heel of your hand.

Add to the bag a large clove of garlic and, again, with the garlic at the bottom, crush the clove using your hand or the side of a knife, taking care not to cut the bag.

Add to the bag a 2-inch spring of rosemary, and crush as above, firmly but gently (trying to avoid pulling the leaves off but don't worry about it if you do). Open the bag and add several turns of your peppermill, about a t of salt, a pinch of sugar, and the juice from the intact lemon half. Add the spent lemon half as well. Add about 3 T of evoo and a couple T of water. Capture some air in the bag, close it, then shake well. Add the chicken (this is enough for 4 breasts). Shake to distribute the marinade well over the chicken then fridge the bag for a 90 min or so, fipping the bag over a few times during fridge time.

Meanwhile, in a small pot, melt 2 T unsalted butter into 2 t evoo over low heat. Over very low heat, sweat 1 clove garlic, very finely minced or pressed, stirring occasionally, till the garlic loses its raw look and gently heats through--take your time with this (and remove the pot periodically if the sizzle is too strong) as you are looking to sweeten the garlic, not allow it to brown. Go slow: It should take at least 10 min.

When ready, add a little pepper (crushed green peppercorns would be nice here), a pinch of sugar, and about a t of Dijon. Add a T of
chicken stock, stir very well with a fork to combine, remove from the heat and reserve.

Clean your grill well and oil the grate after it's hot. Drain the breasts well and pick off any rosemary leaves that might be clinging to them. Cook the breasts indirect, about 7 or 8 min per side, grill covered, then move to direct to finish (waiting to go direct avoids overcooking the exterior of the chicken breast).

When the chicken is on its second side, before you go to direct, reheat the pot with your reserved butter mixture and add about 1/2 t very finely minced fresh rosemary and, if available, 2 t minced parsley leaves. When the mix is hot, add half the reserved lemon juice (from that first half you squeezed into the little bowl), stir well with a fork, then remove the pot from the heat. With your fork, stab a 1-1.5 T slice of cold unsalted butter and stir the sauce with the butter, allowing it to melt. Stirring somewhat vigorously will allow the sauce to emulsify (too vigorous and it will break; too slow and the butter will just melt and pool--worry about neither of these should either occur though, just carry on). Taste the sauce for salt, adding just a little if needed, and for lemon, adding a few drops more from your reserve if needed.

Now, cart the sauce out to the grill with your basting brush and warmed platter. Move your chicken to direct, pulling when the pieces hit 160. Immediately paint the breasts, both sides with the sauce, place on your platter, tent with foil, then cart into the house to serve.

Or--

Leave the sauce on the stove (off heat) finish your chicken, as above, then carry in on a warm platter, tented. Plate your sides then quickly slice each breast on the bias, plate, fanning slightly, and spoon a little sauce along the center of the fan, crosswise.

Just a thought.
 
Kevin, Thank you so much! I cannot wait to try this, I think it is exactly what I didn't know I wanted. (If that makes any sense)
icon_smile.gif

As far as why cutlets? I have no idea, I will definitely go with the b/s breasts.
As soon as I do this, I will post pictures.
I really appreciate the help from you and everyone on this site!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
A question I had for you earlier but had to quickly close: Why cutlets? Why not b/s breasts instead? Though breasts are far from 'forgiving' they are certainly moreso than cutlets.

Anyway, also earlier, I'd planned to post this suggestion:

Cut a lemon in half, squeeze the juice of one half into a small bowl; reserve the juice for later. Put the lemon half into a large Zip-loc then, with the lemon half at the bottom of the bag, mash the half a bit through the bag with the heel of your hand.

Add to the bag a large clove of garlic and, again, with the garlic at the bottom, crush the clove using your hand or the side of a knife, taking care not to cut the bag.

Add to the bag a 2-inch spring of rosemary, and crush as above, firmly but gently (trying to avoid pulling the leaves off but don't worry about it if you do). Open the bag and add several turns of your peppermill, about a t of salt, a pinch of sugar, and the juice from the intact lemon half. Add the spent lemon half as well. Add about 3 T of evoo and a couple T of water. Capture some air in the bag, close it, then shake well. Add the chicken (this is enough for 4 breasts). Shake to distribute the marinade well over the chicken then fridge the bag for a 90 min or so, fipping the bag over a few times during fridge time.

Meanwhile, in a small pot, melt 2 T unsalted butter into 2 t evoo over low heat. Over very low heat, sweat 1 clove garlic, very finely minced or pressed, stirring occasionally, till the garlic loses its raw look and gently heats through--take your time with this (and remove the pot periodically if the sizzle is too strong) as you are looking to sweeten the garlic, not allow it to brown. Go slow: It should take at least 10 min.

When ready, add a little pepper (crushed green peppercorns would be nice here), a pinch of sugar, and about a t of Dijon. Add a T of
chicken stock, stir very well with a fork to combine, remove from the heat and reserve.

Clean your grill well and oil the grate after it's hot. Drain the breasts well and pick off any rosemary leaves that might be clinging to them. Cook the breasts indirect, about 7 or 8 min per side, grill covered, then move to direct to finish (waiting to go direct avoids overcooking the exterior of the chicken breast).

When the chicken is on its second side, before you go to direct, reheat the pot with your reserved butter mixture and add about 1/2 t very finely minced fresh rosemary and, if available, 2 t minced parsley leaves. When the mix is hot, add half the reserved lemon juice (from that first half you squeezed into the little bowl), stir well with a fork, then remove the pot from the heat. With your fork, stab a 1-1.5 T slice of cold unsalted butter and stir the sauce with the butter, allowing it to melt. Stirring somewhat vigorously will allow the sauce to emulsify (too vigorous and it will break; too slow and the butter will just melt and pool--worry about neither of these should either occur though, just carry on). Taste the sauce for salt, adding just a little if needed, and for lemon, adding a few drops more from your reserve if needed.

Now, cart the sauce out to the grill with your basting brush and warmed platter. Move your chicken to direct, pulling when the pieces hit 160. Immediately paint the breasts, both sides with the sauce, place on your platter, tent with foil, then cart into the house to serve.

Or--

Leave the sauce on the stove (off heat) finish your chicken, as above, then carry in on a warm platter, tented. Plate your sides then quickly slice each breast on the bias, plate, fanning slightly, and spoon a little sauce along the center of the fan, crosswise.

Just a thought. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kevin,
I made the recipe tonight! It was FANTASTIC!!!
Thank you so much! It was exactly what I had in my mind, but didn't know how to execute.
Here is a picture of the finished platter....

Grilled Chicken w/ lemon/rosemary marinade
 
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