Chicken in Comps.


 
There really isnt any reason to get upset with Jeff. The master Judge who is trying to teach judges the wrong way is the real culprit.
 
well guys, I promise at the next comp I'll ask our cbj coordinator for an opinion and post back here (won't be until the summer as I live in the NE). Here are some individual replies:

- I have cooked with experienced teams. I think this year, if I have time, I'm going to start my own team.

Let's say I eat as suggested here.
- I take a nice bite or two of chicken with skin. Next bite, there's not much skin left so I take a couple of bites of chicken without skin. Now I take a couple of bites and I'm down to the bone. All good?

Now instead, I reverse the process:
- Start at the bone, make sure the chicken is cooked. Now a couple of bites of just meat. Now a couple of nice bites with chicken and skin.

So I end up tasting the same bites of chicken in reverse. In my mind, the difference is 1) I checked for raw chicken, 2) I sampled the chicken without skin before my mouth can be overwhelmed by the sauce/rub. this is similar to a wine tasting where we taste the more delicate first.

what's the objection? That my palate isn't in good shape when I taste the chicken without the skin?
 
Jeff, I think Dale answered your question here."Why dont you just grab the chicken and eat it like it is presented? Tearing the piece up is not what we have in mind for the flavor profile. If you tear it up, it isnt what we turned in. Our bbq is intended to have a certain flavor from top to bottom that goes together, not just in the middle."
 
paul,

sorry, a little confused by your note. You mean one should never eat the middle piece of a chicken during competition? Every bite should have a piece of skin?
 
Jeff, I think what Dale is saying is that the flavor profile on the skin adds to the flavor of the chicken. I know what you're going to say about the possibility of chicken being undercooked. I understand the concern. When I was judging I did the same thing as you. I was told by almost every cook I met that the skin and chicken SHOULD be sampled together. You can always spit it out in your napkin if underdone. Plus, you can use the napkin blot test on any red spots in your chicken.
 
Jeff. If you were judging a cheeseburger competition, would you take the bun off and take a bite in the middle first?
My opinion is that you are over thinking this. Take a bite, look to see if it is done, chew,swallow, then score. If it isnt cooked enough, spit it out and tell your T Captain.
 
What exactly would he be looking for? Red or pink near the bone? Utterly meaningless: it signifies nothing.

I absolutely agree that skin and meat should be sampled together. It should be a virtual requirement, imo. Sorry, but I think judges that are squeamish about chicken shouldn't be judges.

With all that goes into the cooking of comp chicken (just look at this thread) I can't imagine chicken gets boxed undercooked. And, again, pink/red near the bone means little.

If the number of sqramish judges is high they should lobby KCBS for a rule change and require the chicken to be temped at turn-in.
 
We use a Thermapen and check each piece that goes into the box. I do the same at home too. I like my chicken done, and I want to win.

Chicken that looks burnt is something I would be wary of. Black on the outside, raw in the middle. I would hope that anyone who spends the money to compete would already know that.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
What exactly would he be looking for? Red or pink near the bone? Utterly meaningless: it signifies nothing.

I absolutely agree that skin and meat should be sampled together. It should be a virtual requirement, imo. Sorry, but I think judges that are squeamish about chicken shouldn't be judges.

With all that goes into the cooking of comp chicken (just look at this thread) I can't imagine chicken gets boxed undercooked. And, again, pink/red near the bone means little.

If the number of sqramish judges is high they should lobby KCBS for a rule change and require the chicken to be temped at turn-in. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

- looking for raw chicken. when you take a chicken meat out of the package, it is raw. I look for chicken that looks like that. As I have repeatedly stated, the chicken meat and skin are sampled together.

- dale, the cheeseburger analogy is a good one. I'll ask the kcbs coordinator and the master judge (I see him at about half the comps).
 
Jeff, do you find raw chicken to be occurring quite often? Seems to me that it must be happening often enough for you to take the time to disassemble the piece. When I judge, I just eat it as it is presented.
 
I usually do not post much here, but feel inclined to comment on this thread.

Jeff, I truly believe your intentions are good. However, the method of judging that has been described is flawed and borderline “rouge”.

I am a master judge, I have my own competition team and I am an instructor for a BBQ cooking school. Reading that a judge is distorting an entry to fit their judging style is disturbing, to say the least. That is not how it is taught in the KCBS judging school.

KCBS plainly teaches to judge entrees as presented. Any deviation from what is taught is incorrect, inconsistent with judging standards and simply not fair to the cook teams who have sacrificed time, effort and money to present their products for a fair judging.

If the cook team wants the skin to be judged separately, they would present it separately.

Keep it simple and judge it the way it is presented. It is the only fair method for consistency in judging.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Garland Hudgins:
I usually do not post much here, but feel inclined to comment on this thread.

Jeff, I truly believe your intentions are good. However, the method of judging that has been described is flawed and borderline “rouge”.

I am a master judge, I have my own competition team and I am an instructor for a BBQ cooking school. Reading that a judge is distorting an entry to fit their judging style is disturbing, to say the least. That is not how it is taught in the KCBS judging school.

KCBS plainly teaches to judge entrees as presented. Any deviation from what is taught is incorrect, inconsistent with judging standards and simply not fair to the cook teams who have sacrificed time, effort and money to present their products for a fair judging.

If the cook team wants the skin to be judged separately, they would present it separately.

Keep it simple and judge it the way it is presented. It is the only fair method for consistency in judging. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

garland,

thanks for your input, it's wonderful that my posts have inspired you to join the site, I hope you'll participate in the other forums.
So, I'm a "rouge" am I? I guess that's not the worst thing though I'd prefer to be applied somewhere south of the neck.
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As I said, I'll check in with the master judge and our kcbs coordinator in my next comp and post back here.

best,
jd
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jeff davidson:

So, I'm a "rouge" am I? I guess that's not the worst thing though I'd prefer to be applied somewhere south of the neck.
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As I said, I'll check in with the master judge and our kcbs coordinator in my next comp and post back here.

best,
jd </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, did not say you were "rouge", just the judging method on chicken is borderline “rouge”. Don't want anyone to think I am calling anyone any names.

I think your post is quite insightful and honest. I have shared judging tables with "rouge" judges who do not listen to anyone's feedback or even consider their different ways of judging to be subject to question. You, on the other hand, are obviously open to input and want to ensure your judging is fair and done with the utmost integrity.

I know of one specific female judge who will pull the skin off completely and does not taste it, which IMHO is completely wrong and out of line.

For what its worth, chicken is not my favorite entry to judge or cook. Not sure why it is even considered a category of BBQ…but that’s another thread.
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For what it's worth,,,,I did have a peice of chicken brought back to me at a contest a few years ago. The contest rep had it in a napkin and told me the judge would not taste it due to being undercooked, so I got a appearance score and a 1 on taste and tenderness from that one judge, the other 5 all sampled their piece and judged accordingly. As others have said we as cooks all know how to cook chicken to get it done properly, a thermopen goes in every peice I eat or turn-in always.

As a judge I will take a big bite as presented, even though sometimes it doesn't look real good on the outside, I've had some with almost burnt skin and others with a real light colored skin, sometimes they "appear" undercooked from the looks when the meat is completely done.

Also as others have said, my chicken skin is part of my entry and my taste profile, the meat itself taste completely different with and without the skin, now if I could just get the skin to cook like I want it, nice and crispy. Most of the time at home I can get a nice skin texture but can't duplicate it at a contest for nothing.
 
As a non-competitor I have a query: I like the suggestion of crisping the skin, then smoke (which I plan to try my next home smoke), but isn't that more like grilling and not Q'ing? Are there rules about that, or is the end product/chicken judged only? Personally, I get better results with low temp grilling my chicken than smoking it.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">In a comp. does chicken have to be smoked or can it be grilled ??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

whats up Jay? Sounds like you're getting warmed up for spring
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Chicken is probably the most wide open category in terms of cooking. A lot of the comp techniques take advantage of braising in broth or fat. I do know that I've got comments for chicken that was not smoked that said "too smokey." so by no means are judges looking for smoke flavor on chicken. I've also read stuff both ways about grill marks, some teams try for them others try to avoid them, so who knows?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scottie Johnson:
.. We don't have all these un-documented rules that you judges seem to feel you can follow. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh, you mean those like "bite through" chicken skin. Just looked at the rules for 2010, don't see it mentioned anywhere.
 
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