A few months ago, I cooked two butts roughly weighing 6lbs each (after trimming off fat) that took 18 hours to reach 190 internal meat temp. Therefore, in anticipation of waiting the same amount of time, I decided to start my two butts roughly weighting 7 lbs each (after trimming off fat) at 6:15pm yesterday. Guess what? After 11 hours, they're both finished. One with an internal temp of 195, the other 198. It's only 5:30 am PST, and we don't plan on eating until 4 pm. Need help. They're both sitting in the ice chest right now. What do I do? I put both on the top rack with a lid temp between 215 and 245 throughout the entire cook. Why did they finish so damn soon? Thanking everyone in advance for the responses.
Butts finished 11 hours early. Need help please.
- Thread starter Erik G
- Start date
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Last, first. I'd question the accuracy of the lid therm because my first thought would be that the WSM, in fact, was cooking at a higher temp. I'm assuming you also got confirmation of doneness when you removed the butts from the cooker, i.e., the bone in each was loose and could pull out of the meat with little effort. If not, I'd question the accuracy of the probe(s) used to temp the meat. If all these things were non-issues then I'd have to say I don't know.
If you'll be home and can attend to the butts then I'd suggest removing them from the cooler after they've rested an hour, unwrapping them, and allowing them to rest/cool another 30 min on the counter. Then I'd suggest pulling them as usual, but putting the pulled meat shallowly in pans so that it will cool more quickly (chilling the pans in the fridge or freezer ahead of time can help). When possible, I'd get the pans into the fridge, loosely covered, leaving them till the meat is cold. At that point you can, if you wish, combine the meat into one pan, and/or package whatever meat you'll not be serving for storage in the freezer. The meat you'll be serving for dinner can be tossed with a little vinegar sauce or vin and/or a.j. or the like and simply reheated for serving.
If you'll be home and can attend to the butts then I'd suggest removing them from the cooler after they've rested an hour, unwrapping them, and allowing them to rest/cool another 30 min on the counter. Then I'd suggest pulling them as usual, but putting the pulled meat shallowly in pans so that it will cool more quickly (chilling the pans in the fridge or freezer ahead of time can help). When possible, I'd get the pans into the fridge, loosely covered, leaving them till the meat is cold. At that point you can, if you wish, combine the meat into one pan, and/or package whatever meat you'll not be serving for storage in the freezer. The meat you'll be serving for dinner can be tossed with a little vinegar sauce or vin and/or a.j. or the like and simply reheated for serving.
Clay Jackson
TVWBB Super Fan
Wow, those are two different cooks. Make sure you go through in your mind to see if anything was different. Also log each cook in your log, if you keep one, so you can look back at your notes on future cooks.
The 6:15-5:30 cook is closer to my cook times. I would think that by starting at 6 though you would be finished around 10am or so.
You must have spent a very long period of time in the 250 range for it to move that quick. If I am doing overnights I really try to stay at the 230-235 range. If I am having a dinner party I do the quick cook at a much higher temp and they are done in 7 hours or so. You can search the site for the quick cook method.
By all means do not get discouraged. Try and try again. The best thing about the smoker is that it makes cheaper cuts of meat taste good. If you blow it one time, you are only out 20 bucks.
The 6:15-5:30 cook is closer to my cook times. I would think that by starting at 6 though you would be finished around 10am or so.
You must have spent a very long period of time in the 250 range for it to move that quick. If I am doing overnights I really try to stay at the 230-235 range. If I am having a dinner party I do the quick cook at a much higher temp and they are done in 7 hours or so. You can search the site for the quick cook method.
By all means do not get discouraged. Try and try again. The best thing about the smoker is that it makes cheaper cuts of meat taste good. If you blow it one time, you are only out 20 bucks.
Thanks for the response Kevin and Clay. THe pork butts are definitely finished. I couldn't even take them off the rack without them falling apart. I must say I am very disappointed. Clay, I would rather lose the money than ruin an entire meal for roughly 15-20 people and also the bbq is a going away present for my cousin (in the air force stationed in S. Korea). I don't believe the lid temp. even reached 250. I really don't know. Kevin, last time I cooked the butts, I left them in the ice chest for 7 hours and they were incredibly hot (i needed to wear gloves). You don't think the pork would be able to sit in the ice chest, covered with towels for an extra 4 hours? I really wanted to pull the pork (and the bone)in front of the family. Maybe I should unscrew the lid thermometer and check for accuracy. I just bought the darn thing last month. I thought it was very odd that the meat temp reached 170 after 6 hours.
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You don't think the pork would be able to sit in the ice chest, covered with towels for an extra 4 hours? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, possibly. Unless I planned on serving both then I'd likely consider doing the cooling quickly thing for one of them; the other I might let go several hours in the cooler then move to a pan, still wrapped, wrap the pan, and place in a low oven till 30 min or so before pulling time.
Once cooked thoroughly, it is not the internal temp I am much concerned about as the center is likely to stay hot for some time and bacterial growth, internally, occurring in intact meat cuts (like bone-in butts) is rarely an issue. My concern is for the temp at the surface of the roasts because this is where potential problems are more likely to occur and become an issue if temps drop below 130 for an appreciable period of time.
Yes, possibly. Unless I planned on serving both then I'd likely consider doing the cooling quickly thing for one of them; the other I might let go several hours in the cooler then move to a pan, still wrapped, wrap the pan, and place in a low oven till 30 min or so before pulling time.
Once cooked thoroughly, it is not the internal temp I am much concerned about as the center is likely to stay hot for some time and bacterial growth, internally, occurring in intact meat cuts (like bone-in butts) is rarely an issue. My concern is for the temp at the surface of the roasts because this is where potential problems are more likely to occur and become an issue if temps drop below 130 for an appreciable period of time.
David Collier
TVWBB Fan
Wow, I have never had butts done in that quick of a time. (unless doing the quick cook method)In fact, I often get impatient as all of my overnighters at lid temps of 225 - 235 takes at a minimum of 20 hours. I would recheck the thermometers by placing in boiling to calibrate.
Nothing wrong with a quick ccok and foiling!
Nothing wrong with a quick ccok and foiling!
I agree David, prior to my next smoke, I'll definitely check the accuracy of my lid thermometer. Do you think leaving the thermometer outside could damage or alter the accuracy of the thermometer? After the cooks are finished, what does everyone do with their lids? I just leave mine outside (not covered).
Kevin, I can honestly say that these two butts were my best thus far. I received rave reviews, with my uncle topping it off by saying "you should open up a restaurant." I've learned to leave my butts wrapped in foil for at least 4 hours prior to pulling, preferably 6 hours. They just come out tastier and more moist. For this cook, I left the butts wrapped in foil until 6pm (a total of 13 hours). The meat was still warm (by no means hot).
Kevin, please explain to me the difference in texture and taste from a butt being smoked at a temp of 225-250 and one being smoked at a temp. of 325-350. I would like to know if my thermometer was indeed off (i will know for certain when I check the accuracy of the thermometer) or exactly why the butts finished so soon and I imagine there would be a discernable taste difference between the two varying cooking temperatures. Thanks again for your expertise.
Kevin, I can honestly say that these two butts were my best thus far. I received rave reviews, with my uncle topping it off by saying "you should open up a restaurant." I've learned to leave my butts wrapped in foil for at least 4 hours prior to pulling, preferably 6 hours. They just come out tastier and more moist. For this cook, I left the butts wrapped in foil until 6pm (a total of 13 hours). The meat was still warm (by no means hot).
Kevin, please explain to me the difference in texture and taste from a butt being smoked at a temp of 225-250 and one being smoked at a temp. of 325-350. I would like to know if my thermometer was indeed off (i will know for certain when I check the accuracy of the thermometer) or exactly why the butts finished so soon and I imagine there would be a discernable taste difference between the two varying cooking temperatures. Thanks again for your expertise.
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
A good question. Taste and texture differences can often be measured objectively but the impressions of taste and texture are often subjective. Additionally, there are more variables at play than cook temp alone.
As important to the result as cook temp is, other variables are as important and in many cases more important. These include quantity of rub applied, quantity of sugar in the rub by proportion, type of sugar in the rub, whether or not sand, water or nothing is used in the pan, and whether a Guru or some other type of fan is used. The differences (or lack of differences) between cooking at low temp might be very different for you using this type rub at this amount and water in the pan than for someone using that type rub at this amount and using a Guru. E.g., you are less likely to see much of a difference in rub texture when cooking using water in the pan at 225 and 275. Someone using a Guru at 225 and 275 might feel more of a difference.
When temps exceed 335 and move over 350 then yet more of a difference is likely (unless one has foiled) because at the lower of these temps true sugar caramelization occurs and above the higher temp sugar burns. Foil, as noted, can mitigate this, as can ambient moisture levels both on and around the meat.
In other words, I'd have to know the variables of your cooks (water, sand, nothing, Guru, sugar type, proportion, rub coverage) before I could attempt to discern what the potential difference might be. And those potential difference might well be quite different from someone else's potential differences if their variables were different from yours.
Much is mentioned on barbecue boards about the 'danger zone' of 40-140 but it is not often mentioned in the post-cook context. If you wish to use extended resting as a variable in your results every effort must be made not to touch the meat at any time prior to cooking, during cooking, or immediately after cooking with bare skin to minimize the chance of depositing Staph aureus on the meat. It is a spore-producing toxigenic bacteria that kicks in when surface temps drop below 120. It should be noted that C. perfringens, another heat-resistant bacteria that might be present on the meat irrespective of bare-skin contact, also outgrows when surface temps fall, in its case when temps drop toward 100 and below. Other bacteria not killed during cooking can begin to mulitply as well. The really dangerous temps are 85-115F, where one sees progressive and rapid growth.
The USDA allows food processors, when they cook the deli roast turkeys, roast beef, etc., that we see in stores, to have these items at any temperature for 90 minutes if, at the end of that time, it is greater than 120F. Then cooling can begin, from 120 to 55F in 6 hours, and continued cooling until the food reaches 40F a total of about 14 hours. Then the food can be packaged for shipment. Why the FDA's recommendations do not follow this protocol I have no idea.
Though surface temps of butts well wrapped in foil and towelled and coolered are likely to stay high for some time, falling temps will occur and this should be noted and monitored if you are going to extend your resting time past 4 hours or so. Again, it is surface temps that are the post-cooking concern of most intact meat cuts--not the internals as is commonly thought. I'd suggest monitoring the surface temps and not allowing those temps to fall below 120 or, if 120 is reached, to immediately unwrap the meats and prepare them for rapid cooling in the fridge or freezer or with ice. Though it will take time for the growth of various bacteria to occur should the surface temps drop below 120, this is precisely the area where timing is critical and precisley the area that is least understood by most home cooks--and by many professionals as well. And it is why, here and in numerous other posts, i stress rapid cooling of items not meant to be served immediately and/or for leftovers.
As important to the result as cook temp is, other variables are as important and in many cases more important. These include quantity of rub applied, quantity of sugar in the rub by proportion, type of sugar in the rub, whether or not sand, water or nothing is used in the pan, and whether a Guru or some other type of fan is used. The differences (or lack of differences) between cooking at low temp might be very different for you using this type rub at this amount and water in the pan than for someone using that type rub at this amount and using a Guru. E.g., you are less likely to see much of a difference in rub texture when cooking using water in the pan at 225 and 275. Someone using a Guru at 225 and 275 might feel more of a difference.
When temps exceed 335 and move over 350 then yet more of a difference is likely (unless one has foiled) because at the lower of these temps true sugar caramelization occurs and above the higher temp sugar burns. Foil, as noted, can mitigate this, as can ambient moisture levels both on and around the meat.
In other words, I'd have to know the variables of your cooks (water, sand, nothing, Guru, sugar type, proportion, rub coverage) before I could attempt to discern what the potential difference might be. And those potential difference might well be quite different from someone else's potential differences if their variables were different from yours.
Much is mentioned on barbecue boards about the 'danger zone' of 40-140 but it is not often mentioned in the post-cook context. If you wish to use extended resting as a variable in your results every effort must be made not to touch the meat at any time prior to cooking, during cooking, or immediately after cooking with bare skin to minimize the chance of depositing Staph aureus on the meat. It is a spore-producing toxigenic bacteria that kicks in when surface temps drop below 120. It should be noted that C. perfringens, another heat-resistant bacteria that might be present on the meat irrespective of bare-skin contact, also outgrows when surface temps fall, in its case when temps drop toward 100 and below. Other bacteria not killed during cooking can begin to mulitply as well. The really dangerous temps are 85-115F, where one sees progressive and rapid growth.
The USDA allows food processors, when they cook the deli roast turkeys, roast beef, etc., that we see in stores, to have these items at any temperature for 90 minutes if, at the end of that time, it is greater than 120F. Then cooling can begin, from 120 to 55F in 6 hours, and continued cooling until the food reaches 40F a total of about 14 hours. Then the food can be packaged for shipment. Why the FDA's recommendations do not follow this protocol I have no idea.
Though surface temps of butts well wrapped in foil and towelled and coolered are likely to stay high for some time, falling temps will occur and this should be noted and monitored if you are going to extend your resting time past 4 hours or so. Again, it is surface temps that are the post-cooking concern of most intact meat cuts--not the internals as is commonly thought. I'd suggest monitoring the surface temps and not allowing those temps to fall below 120 or, if 120 is reached, to immediately unwrap the meats and prepare them for rapid cooling in the fridge or freezer or with ice. Though it will take time for the growth of various bacteria to occur should the surface temps drop below 120, this is precisely the area where timing is critical and precisley the area that is least understood by most home cooks--and by many professionals as well. And it is why, here and in numerous other posts, i stress rapid cooling of items not meant to be served immediately and/or for leftovers.