Birds on top?

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Gregg

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Hi Everyone -

Long time reader - first time poster.

I have always done my cooks with the advice typically given to place poultry on the bottom so as not to drip on the other food. Sometimes this is not as convenient - like if I add a bird after the main cook is well underway. Also, I would normally rather have the bird on top grate to give it the higher temp. But, for the sake of food safety, I always keep it on the lower grate.

However, I do wonder if it is really necessary. After all, even if the juices drip on some other meat on the lower grate that will cook at least as long, if not longer, than the poultry then why is it a danger? Won't the bacteria be killed anyway? Considering that the poultry itself is no longer a danger after reaching the proper temps, why would food that poultry juices dripped on to be any less safe as long as they were properly cooked?

Thanks!
 
The reasoning is that, if bacteria are present, and they have had the opportunity to proliferate, they will have produced waste products called endotoxins. It is the endotoxins, not the bacteria themselves, responsible for food poisoning, and they (the endotoxins) cannot be neutralized by heat.

Even though you have reason to believe that the raw poultry has not spent more than the maximum recommended time in the "danger zone" (40-140*F), erring on the side of caution is always best when talking food safety.
 
Interesting. But if the bacteria are present in the juice that falls on the meat below it, wouldn't they also be in the chicken itself and therefore not destroyed by the heat ?

I've always put the poltry on the bottom, but it is an interesting question to which I know Doug D will have the answer and make me feel dumb - again. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Paul
 
You pose a good question, and I don't know if I have a definite answer. Most of what I read about poultry juices dripping refers to raw poultry in a refrigerator dripping on cooked foods stored below it. Perhaps this is where the axiom we tend to follow in cooking came from. However, I will offer this for consideration:

Let's say you cook poultry in a situation where it drips juices on another food, probably beef, which you consider done below 140*F. If you then remove the dripped-on food, you have a potentially dangerous situation in that you consider it safe to eat when it could, if improperly handled thereafter, go on to cross-contaminate all manner of other things.
 
Tomorrow I'm doing a Turkey breast and a chicken. The chicken is 4 lbs and the turkey is 8lb. Which one should go on top for safety reasons...or should I put one on one side and the other on the other side?!
 
Now that is indeed a conundrum. Can poultry contaminate its own kind? Are you doing these at high temp (300-325*)? If so, I think they would pass through the danger zone so quickly so as not to matter. But I would tend to want to try to fit them both on the top rack, if I could, anyway, to prevent fats dripping on poultry skin-- we have trouble enough with skin crispiness in the WSM as it is.
 
I figure to fit them both on the top rack. Start the gobbler around around 9am then the chicken 3 hours later to get them done round about the same time.
Figuring 1 and a half hours a pound and cook'um in the higher temp range as you suggested!
 
I might suggest setting your top bird on a roasting rack or cookie-cooling rack on top of a throwaway aluminum pan sitting on the top rack. The pizza pan will catch any drippings from the top bird, and the height of the rack will still allow smoke to surround the meat. Alternately, sit your top bird directly into a shallow roasting pan. At this weekend's comp, you would be positively amazed at how many people placed their butts and briskets on a flat rack placed on a stainless-steel half sheet pan inside the smoker, with excellent results.

Keri C, smokin' on Tulsa Time
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> But if the bacteria are present in the juice that falls on the meat below it, wouldn't they also be in the chicken itself and therefore not destroyed by the heat ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not always the bacteria we need to be concerned about. If toxins are present due to temperature abuse or improper handling, any temperature you cook at will not kill the toxins.

Great night to be smokin!

Steve
 
I agree with you Steve, but if the toxins are present in the juice that drips down, wouldn't they alo be present in the chicken from whence they dripped. Thus, if you buy chicken and don't properly refrigerate it, you allow an environment to be created whereby the bacteria proliferate and this causes a problem that cooking doesn't solve, even to a high heat. Probably the big issue is cross contamination created by handling raw chicken and then touching or having your utensils touch other food that will be consumed without cooking - that would be any chicken, not just chicken that had not been refrigerated properly. Example: use of a cutting board to cut up chicken and then without washing it, using it to slice a tomatoe.

I think it's probably wise to take no chances so cooking chicken with no food under it is probably best. I do know, however, in years past when I cooked on my WSM the "Weber Way" I cooked chicken halves on the top and bottom so the bottom definitely got dripped on. Just because I did it, of course, doesn't mean it was the safe way.

Have a great 4th !

Paul
 
I do what Keri C does (Hi Keri).

If I need to put a bird on top - like a big turkey - I'll put it in a throw away aluminum roaster pan. The taste is the same and I can smoke whatever on the bottom rack without worrying about any of those big words like, "toxins", "samenella", "bacteria".

Happy 4th,
sam
 
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