WSM vs Summit Kamado


 
Brock... Apparently you don't get my little bit of attempted humor with the word Amateur. And what official, recognized licenses have you attained ?

As far as overcooked... Fall off the bone ribs ARE overcooked ribs. Educated yourself on meat structure and changes within said structure before, during and after the cook. And I don't mean watching some YouTube video !!!! Attend a class. Read an authoritative thesis on the subject. A good start would be "On Food and Cooking" by Harold McGee. University of Iowa has a great class on this as does the University of Texas.

Are you a Certified BBQ judge with any organization ? I am. And a Master at that. Due diligence can be beneficial !

Years ago, I taught an advanced class in meat tenderness and texture. Loads of research prior to teaching !!! Our host, Chris, can verify.
 
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Bob Bass said:
Brock... Apparently you don't get my little bit of attempted humor with the word Amateur. And what official, recognized licenses have you attained ?

As far as overcooked... Fall off the bone ribs ARE overcooked ribs. Educated yourself on meat structure and changes within said structure before, during and after the cook. And I don't mean watching some YouTube video !!!! Attend a class. Read an authoritative thesis on the subject. A good start would be "On Food and Cooking" by Harold McGee. University of Iowa has a great class on this as does the University of Texas.

Are you a Certified BBQ judge with any organization ? I am. And a Master at that. Due diligence can be beneficial !

Years ago, I taught an advanced class in meat tenderness and texture. Loads of research prior to teaching !!! Our host, Chris, can verify.
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As few as possible on licenses. :) I take issue with permission slips being demanded for liberty exercise.

If nothing else I can see you didn't get my joke. Just for this time I am going to say this, you are getting combative for no good reason. We try to stay pretty laid back here and provide a forum that is friendly and respectful to all. If you wish to have a heated argument please either take it private, or do so outside TVWBB.

I'm going to give you benefit of doubt that maybe you had a bad day and took what I said in a way that was not intended. For that I apologize if that is what happened, and in return I would like to request that this not happen again. Fair enough?
 
Brock, Bob has been here a long time & deserves respect, he knows what he is talking about regardless of the miscommunication you may have taken the wrong way.
 
I have cooked on both the WSM and WSK. I was an early adopter of the WSK, bought it when Weber first came out with it back in 2016, at that time it was the Weber Summit Charcoal Grill (WSCG). I sold my WSCG in 2020, not because I wanted to, but Covid lock downs hit me hard (economically), sad story for another place and time.

Anyway, my experience with the WSK was first and for most, it cooks like a Kamado. The difference between it and the ceramic versions are two fold. First it uses air, instead of ceramic, for its insulation. Air is a better insulator than ceramic, so it's more efficient. Air, however, is way worse at heat retention. This allows better recovery if you overshoot your temperature (doesn't retain the heat, cools down quicker than ceramic), and uses less fuel (more efficient).

You will note that smoke flavor (lack of) is one of the main issues with all Kamados, its the nature of the beast. There are some work arounds that people who own them do if they want more smoke profile. I believe the efficiency actually reduces the smoke flavor, since it needs to burn very little fuel to maintain low temperatures, and hence produces less smoke and less airflow to move the smoke across the meat.

The WSM, being inefficient has much higher airflow, more smoke from combustion, but also the water bowl. I can't say that the water bowl makes food from the wsm more juicy, but it does make food with more smoke flavor. This is because the smoke flavor sticks to wet food better.
AmazingRibs article on smoke, talks about water on the surface providing smoke a place to stick to.

There is no reason you can't put a water pan in the WSK to increase the smoke flavor, however, I still think the fact that their is less combustion and less airflow, makes it more difficult to achieved a high smoke profile on all Kamados. My experience is that the WSM and kettle consistently produced more smoke flavor.

That being said, the WSK is a fine piece of equipment. I NEVER noticed the food was "less juicy." In fact I found the opposite, it was more difficult to produce overly dry BBQ. I loved the stainless steal internals (last longer, easy to clean) and the much larger cooking surface. Like one of the earlier posters mentioned, kneeling down and bending over to maintain the fire on the WSM is a pain, more so the older I get. This isn't a problem with the WSK. Also, having a table like a performer, invaluable!. Further, if you live in cold climates, you can cook year around, sub 20F, the air insulation is that good (also, you will get a little better smoke profile as more combustion is needed to maintain temps). Lastly, the versatility was great on the WSK, second to none.

At the end of the day, I did find my WSM and Kettle produced more smoke profile, and if you know what you are doing, you can cook just as well on any of the three. Bang for the buck, WSM is hard to beat. But if you want the extras, larger cooking surface, more versatility, stainless steal internals, the WSK is the one for you. These features don't make your food taste better, but they make the process more convenient.

That's my 2 cents worth.
 
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WB Zipf said:
I have cooked on both the WSM and WSK. I was an early adopter of the WSK, bought it when Weber first came out with it back in 2016, at that time it was the Weber Summit Charcoal Grill (WSCG). I sold my WSCG in 2020, not because I wanted to, but Covid lock downs hit me hard (economically), sad story for another place and time.

Anyway, my experience with the WSK was first and for most, it cooks like a Kamado. The difference between it and the ceramic versions are two fold. First it uses air, instead of ceramic, for its insulation. Air is a better insulator than ceramic, so it's more efficient. Air, however, is way worse at heat retention. This allows better recovery if you overshoot your temperature (doesn't retain the heat, cools down quicker than ceramic), and uses less fuel (more efficient).

You will note that smoke flavor (lack of) is one of the main issues with all Kamados, its the nature of the beast. There are some work arounds that people who own them do if they want more smoke profile. I believe the efficiency actually reduces the smoke flavor, since it needs to burn very little fuel to maintain low temperatures, and hence produces less smoke and less airflow to move the smoke across the meat.

The WSM, being inefficient has much higher airflow, more smoke from combustion, but also the water bowl. I can't say that the water bowl makes food from the wsm more juicy, but it does make food with more smoke flavor. This is because the smoke flavor sticks to wet food better.
AmazingRibs article on smoke, talks about water on the surface providing smoke a place to stick to.

There is no reason you can't put a water pan in the WSK to increase the smoke flavor, however, I still think the fact that their is less combustion and less airflow, makes it more difficult to achieved a high smoke profile on all Kamados. My experience is that the WSM and kettle consistently produced more smoke flavor.

That being said, the WSK is a fine piece of equipment. I NEVER noticed the food was "less juicy." In fact I found the opposite, it was more difficult to produce overly dry BBQ. I loved the stainless steal internals (last longer, easy to clean) and the much larger cooking surface. Like one of the earlier posters mentioned, kneeling down and bending over to maintain the fire on the WSM is a pain, more so the older I get. This isn't a problem with the WSK. Also, having a table like a performer, invaluable!. Further, if you live in cold climates, you can cook year around, sub 20F, the air insulation is that good (also, you will get a little better smoke profile as more combustion is needed to maintain temps). Lastly, the versatility was great on the WSK, second to none.

At the end of the day, I did find my WSM and Kettle produced more smoke profile, and if you know what you are doing, you can cook just as well on any of the three. Bang for the buck, WSM is hard to beat. But if you want the extras, larger cooking surface, more versatility, stainless steal internals, the WSK is the one for you. These features don't make your food taste better, but they make the process more convenient.

That's my 2 cents worth.
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That lines up with my understanding and why offsets(even more airflow) produce more smoke flavor at higher running temps. It also acknowledges that kamados are more efficient and require smaller fires to maintain heat. Very well written. Nice work sir.


I've never needed a connected table to my grill. I have a table near it, and usually prefer more space than the limited amount a connected provides for food prep. Since I go that route, using it to set a tray on for taking food off I also a moot point, but for those who love them keep on keeping on. (From a Weber head who runs his WSM down to single digit temps 🙂)
 
Brock Gingery said:
That lines up with my understanding and why offsets(even more airflow) produce more smoke flavor at higher running temps. It also acknowledges that kamados are more efficient and require smaller fires to maintain heat. Very well written. Nice work sir.


I've never needed a connected table to my grill. I have a table near it, and usually prefer more space than the limited amount a connected provides for food prep. Since I go that route, using it to set a tray on for taking food off I also a moot point, but for those who love them keep on keeping on. (From a Weber head who runs his WSM down to single digit temps 🙂)
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Thanks
 
ive done a lot of comparisons between my 22 kettle vs 18 wsm as far as smoke flavor goes and I always lean towards wanting max smoke flavor...and in that case the wsm edged out the kettle and I chalk it up to the fact the fire is closer to the meat in the kettle requiring choking down the airflow more than the wsm. I will also throw this out there, I find an offset to produce a milder but cleaner tasting smoke flavor vs a wsm or kettle...there is a tiny hint of bitterness in the smoke produced in the wsm BUT the offset can be a workout during a long cook which can get old at times
 
I love this conversation on the WSK and WSM. I have both the WSK and the 18" WSM. I find the WSM easier for me to get the best meat, but that might mainly be because I have used it so much more. WSK is less than a year old. Here are where I see the differences:
  1. I always use water in the water pan of the WSM. I have tried using an 18" high wall pizza pan with water elevated on ceramic discs in the WSK, but it just boils off so quickly. I was thinking getting a second rack inside the WSK and putting the water pan on the main grate would help this.
  2. They are both efficient, but the WSK is really super efficient. Especially in wind or rain / snow. I had winter cooks when it was snowing and the WSM couldn't hold temps.
  3. My first LAS on the WSK had very little smoke flavor. I have since adjusted by adding wood through out the coals so it's always smoldering wood flavor. That helped a lot.
  4. The WSK has essentially eliminated my use of my 22" kettle. The WSK does so many things awesome. It's so fantastic using the vortex and air frying chicken, I quit doing the WSM chicken, which was my favorite.
  5. I can put the WSM in van or SUV and take it to my cabin and have great smoked food. Not going to happen with the WSK. I did a brisket for my friends overnight in January of 2023. It was fantastic. Only adjusted vents twice over the entire night.
  6. I have done overnight cooks on the WSK with no adjustment to vents the entire night.
Both are great cookers. I like them both.

Todd
 
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