As far as the mass production side of it, we have a local butcher shop the caters and has a team that competes in local comps. They have done pretty good at comps from my understanding, but we have had them cater at my work several times, and it is nothing to stand in line and wait for. The chicken, pork and beans all taste the same, and the meat is dried out. I don't think it is how much they cook, it's how much they want to cut back to make more $$$$. My Supervisors that have tasted what I bring in have all said it's better than the caterer. My only issue is, I would do it, but don't have equipment to cater for 3 shifts of 150 people like others do. Wish I did though!
Ever wonder how good your Q really is?
- Thread starter Steve Petrone
- Start date
Dale Perry
TVWBB Guru
Kevin you should write a book.
I agree with everything you said about quality, but where I live charging $24 a head will give you plenty of time off because there arent many who would pay that. I wish they would cause I am more than willing to put in the extra things it takes to make it all better, but still there isnt enough demand around here. I have priced several jobs way too cheap and lost them to a cheaper bid. My new thing this year is to have samples ready for clients so I think that might help. Bagged prepared food is what people around here cater with, and it is hard to compete against that. There ae a few high end caterers that do a fantastic job. One of them makes the best pasta salad ever. HELP KEVIN! I could use some with sides my friend!
Anyone who thinks cooking for large crowds is hard work, well you are right. I cooked for 80 last weekend and it wore me out. Plus like many of you I couldnt eat anything after cooking and prepping for 3 days. Just couldnt do it.
Everyone raved about my chicken and PP which made me feel good but to me, it was average at best. I was unhappy with everything but my son said "Daddy, this PP is better then anything we have turned in at any competition" and I still didnt believe that it was very good. I snob at my own cooking all the time! Hardly ever really happy with it.
I have a lot to learn but Im loving every minute of it!
I agree with everything you said about quality, but where I live charging $24 a head will give you plenty of time off because there arent many who would pay that. I wish they would cause I am more than willing to put in the extra things it takes to make it all better, but still there isnt enough demand around here. I have priced several jobs way too cheap and lost them to a cheaper bid. My new thing this year is to have samples ready for clients so I think that might help. Bagged prepared food is what people around here cater with, and it is hard to compete against that. There ae a few high end caterers that do a fantastic job. One of them makes the best pasta salad ever. HELP KEVIN! I could use some with sides my friend!
Anyone who thinks cooking for large crowds is hard work, well you are right. I cooked for 80 last weekend and it wore me out. Plus like many of you I couldnt eat anything after cooking and prepping for 3 days. Just couldnt do it.
I have a lot to learn but Im loving every minute of it!
Steve Petrone
TVWBB Diamond Member
The following contains some fond dining memories, I have written of these experiences in the past at least once. I suppose either senility or the tonic of the good ole days has lead me to repeat the story...please disregard if you have read this one before. I'll start a new thread in conversation on dinning mememories.
A few years back, my wife and I took the trip of our life. At the time, I was in the wine distribution business. We carefully planned a visit to Carmel with a window seat at sunset, several San Francisco stops of note, Napa, a winery private dinning room, Seattle and finally tea at the famous hotel a boat ride away in Cannada.
An experienced restaurant owner and developer gave us a list of the best eateries on the west coast. What an absolute treat.
Several observations. Wow, how can a world class view add a special element. 'Famous' as in a famous restaurant and famous clientele can add to the experience. Old world techniques like lamb shanks slowly cooked never go out of style in the fanciest of places. A meal at a culinary institute in a winery designed to leave a life long impression of quality and appreciation did and has.
Finally, it may seam odd but, one of the lasting impressions from the restaurants we visited, was from a place we did not even eat at. I watched one early morning as a chef hand inspected and selected fresh vegetables and fruit. Picking one or two of this or that then discarding one or two. This restaurant was at the Market in Seattle and a top 25 eatery in the northwest. I know why.
We chose not to eat there because we were food exhausted and we chose instead to eat from the individual vendors in the market. Fabulous pastries!
My guess is there are many elements that make a meal special. Company, atmosphere, service, special time or celebration...but perhaps nothing can replace the passion the chef has in producing his best.
A few years back, my wife and I took the trip of our life. At the time, I was in the wine distribution business. We carefully planned a visit to Carmel with a window seat at sunset, several San Francisco stops of note, Napa, a winery private dinning room, Seattle and finally tea at the famous hotel a boat ride away in Cannada.
An experienced restaurant owner and developer gave us a list of the best eateries on the west coast. What an absolute treat.
Several observations. Wow, how can a world class view add a special element. 'Famous' as in a famous restaurant and famous clientele can add to the experience. Old world techniques like lamb shanks slowly cooked never go out of style in the fanciest of places. A meal at a culinary institute in a winery designed to leave a life long impression of quality and appreciation did and has.
Finally, it may seam odd but, one of the lasting impressions from the restaurants we visited, was from a place we did not even eat at. I watched one early morning as a chef hand inspected and selected fresh vegetables and fruit. Picking one or two of this or that then discarding one or two. This restaurant was at the Market in Seattle and a top 25 eatery in the northwest. I know why.
We chose not to eat there because we were food exhausted and we chose instead to eat from the individual vendors in the market. Fabulous pastries!
My guess is there are many elements that make a meal special. Company, atmosphere, service, special time or celebration...but perhaps nothing can replace the passion the chef has in producing his best.
I can't resist jumping in this line of thinking. There is some really good, smart people here to learn from.
I grew like like some of you. We bought very little "packaged or canned" food. We grew our own garden and raised our own meat, everything from garden peas to T-bone steaks. This style of living is almost lost in today's world. My kids hardly even know what a garden is much less how to work it and that is a big shame. I am to much of a country hick to understand some of the fine arts of true professional chefs and enjoy any of the fine culinary dishes. I am still a meat, taters and bean kind of guy but I am learning and getting better thanks to you guys.
The catering issue is a great experience and alot of fun for me. I agree with all the above thoughts and ideas. When I do one my main goal is to make sure all customers are happy. If they haven't tasted my food before I do some samples for them. I sit down and have several questions that helps me decide what and how much to prepare. What are they expecting, age of the people, how many kids, spicey or not, sweet or vinegar sauces, leftovers or not, etc. That's the problem I have seen with most big caterers and restaurants, they just cook a certain way and that is what you get and don't take the time needed to produce a quailty product like we do. I done 20 butts for a fundraiser deal back in the summer over 2 days and done them the same as I would do one at home for the family. We sold 88 pounds of pork in 2 days and I enjoyed every minute of it even though I did work my butt off and couldn't eat pork for a week after that.
What really struck me funny is how nervous I was on my first few catering deals. Would people like?, Would it be good?, could I make it good enough? Then one day it hit me, wait a minute I have been competeing and feeding certified BBQ judges for 3 years now so it must be ok. After that I felt alot better about my style of cooking. Like others have said it is very hard for me to be happy with my own food. My last large family cook, I hated the ribs and almost took them off the table, but everyone loved them and would not stop bragging about how good they were, but for people that have never had really good BBQ even our worst is still better than what they have had before.
Thank you to everyone for your input and listening to my stories.
Randy
I grew like like some of you. We bought very little "packaged or canned" food. We grew our own garden and raised our own meat, everything from garden peas to T-bone steaks. This style of living is almost lost in today's world. My kids hardly even know what a garden is much less how to work it and that is a big shame. I am to much of a country hick to understand some of the fine arts of true professional chefs and enjoy any of the fine culinary dishes. I am still a meat, taters and bean kind of guy but I am learning and getting better thanks to you guys.
The catering issue is a great experience and alot of fun for me. I agree with all the above thoughts and ideas. When I do one my main goal is to make sure all customers are happy. If they haven't tasted my food before I do some samples for them. I sit down and have several questions that helps me decide what and how much to prepare. What are they expecting, age of the people, how many kids, spicey or not, sweet or vinegar sauces, leftovers or not, etc. That's the problem I have seen with most big caterers and restaurants, they just cook a certain way and that is what you get and don't take the time needed to produce a quailty product like we do. I done 20 butts for a fundraiser deal back in the summer over 2 days and done them the same as I would do one at home for the family. We sold 88 pounds of pork in 2 days and I enjoyed every minute of it even though I did work my butt off and couldn't eat pork for a week after that.
What really struck me funny is how nervous I was on my first few catering deals. Would people like?, Would it be good?, could I make it good enough? Then one day it hit me, wait a minute I have been competeing and feeding certified BBQ judges for 3 years now so it must be ok. After that I felt alot better about my style of cooking. Like others have said it is very hard for me to be happy with my own food. My last large family cook, I hated the ribs and almost took them off the table, but everyone loved them and would not stop bragging about how good they were, but for people that have never had really good BBQ even our worst is still better than what they have had before.
Thank you to everyone for your input and listening to my stories.
Randy
Konrad Haskins
R.I.P. 3/23/2014
What saddens me is that some people are looking for shortcuts when it comes to cooking on a large scale. I'm constantly asked about liquid smoke as a shortcut.
Good caterers care and work hard to maintain quality every day. We are on the upper end of the price range in our area and are so busy we turn down work. If a pan of meat is past it's prime then off to the trash it goes as food banks will not take cooked meat.
Good caterers care and work hard to maintain quality every day. We are on the upper end of the price range in our area and are so busy we turn down work. If a pan of meat is past it's prime then off to the trash it goes as food banks will not take cooked meat.
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Dave--
This Friday--tomorrow--in Okeechobee. Party of 35. If my estimates are correct it's likely to come in at $22.85pp--a savings for you of $1.15! A RT ticket to Orlando (a slight additional expense) would put you 110 miles from the party! (I'll send a car to get you.)
Dale--
I would love to write a book. And I'd be happy to help with sides. Let me know what you're after.
**************************
Commentary:
There are people everywhere who will pay for quality but it is quite true that there are many who will jump in an underbid you if given the opportunity. This is only possible though if one compares apples to apples, not apples to oranges (or in my case pomegranates or calamondins or Surinam cherries). In other words, I set myself apart and do not compete on price nor do I negotiate fees. I can work within a budget if there is one but this needs to start in the $22-25/pp range (it is higher, usually, for small groups because of the time involved). This figure includes apps and the main meal but does not include beverages, dessert(s) or any services items (plates, utensils). I'll detail this more for those who might be interested somewhere downthread. The upshot: What I try to do is offer food as an experience, not simply food to feed x amount of people. 80% of the time we don't even discuss the food ahead of time. We discuss the nature of the party (celebration, get-together, event; casual or not; lunch, dinner, cocktail party, other; age range of guests; time of day), the number of guests and that's about it. I do whatever I want. 10% of the time we might discuss the main dish (only) in a little detail, and I make all the other decisions, and 10% of the time we discuss everything in much greater detail but I always leave myself wiggle room where it counts and/or make part of the discussion revolve around options so that I am not locked into every single aspect having to be just so.
This approach makes me not an 'apple' so it doesn't invite comparisons on that level. Though certainly I and my food can be compared to others and their food it is on other levels and it is more of an emotional or intellectual exercise and this distinguishes me and other higher end chefs from the pack, so to speak.
This brings up another point: Distinguish yourself. People don't refer to me as a caterer. I refer to myself in conversation as a private chef (my business card says 'itinerant chef') simply because I went from the commercial arena of restaurant kitchens to private work and never thought to call myself anything different; I had been 'Chef' for some time. Because I refer to myself that way others refer to me that way and it sets me apart in a way that, apparently, works for me. Nothing at all negative about the word caterer of course, but I'll take the distinction, any distinction thank you very much, wherever I can.
I am not of the give-them-what-they-want school of thought and this is distinguishing. There is nothing wrong with that approach but that's not what I do. I do not have a menu of items from which to choose, preferring to create the food based upon the type of occasion and what I think will fly and what I think will be memorable. I make the food accessible though, nothing so out there that people are afraid to eat it. For my own sanity, I do not combine many difficult items for a meal but I do make things with complexity, at least some things, and I do make things that look difficult even though they aren't terribly so. I want the hosts and guests to look at the food and think 'Wow' and I want them to taste it and think 'Wow' and I want to leave the impression that no one else but me would have come up with this menu and no one else but me could come up with it, could cook it. This certainly isn't necessarily so but that's the reaction I shoot for and it is how people remember me.
I don't compete (and I don't always do barbecue for parties--a bit better than half the time I do) so I do not have the ability to use this to my advantage; I cannot say 'award-winning' this or that. Others can use this as one of their distinguishing marks. Jim Minion has a successful catering biz in the Seattle area, Konrad east of there, and both have the props and the media to use to their advantage and both make good use of it. For them this is but one of their distinguishing marks. Get all you can; set yourself apart.
An aside on the personal criticism front: Whenever you cook, be it for your family, friends, or a gig, naturally you will be self-critical and this is fine. Do not under any circumstances verbalize your thoughts to those present. If you have a confidant--your wife, cooking partner, whoever--discuss it with them when prudent, but out of earshot of others, and preferably well after the event is done and you are back home or otherwise by yourselves, later. Do not let your face betray your thoughts if you are not happy with something during the event/meal. (If you are really not happy with something, if something is totally off, do not serve it. Apologize for whatever it is not working out and move on.) Attitude, as others have noted upthread, is very important. It is another quality one brings to the game, so to speak, and one must carry that attitude throughout. Self-criticize later. Allow your client and their guests (or your friends and family) to enjoy your food unmolested by even slightly negative commentary. Finesse any issues. Hold your head high. Look the part.
I am running a bit behind on my food flow front at the moment. At some point in the next few days I'll detail this party I'm doing, the fees and flow and why I made some of the choices I made in case anyone is interested and can use any of the info to help themselves. There are many ways to approach the business and many avenues to success. If anything I do or any way I do something can be helpful to someone else I'm will to share it in as much detail is required. Just ask.
***********
Steve--
I hopeyou tried the piroshki when you were at Pike Place--some of the best! And so true: There are many elements that make a meal special.
This Friday--tomorrow--in Okeechobee. Party of 35. If my estimates are correct it's likely to come in at $22.85pp--a savings for you of $1.15! A RT ticket to Orlando (a slight additional expense) would put you 110 miles from the party! (I'll send a car to get you.)
Dale--
I would love to write a book. And I'd be happy to help with sides. Let me know what you're after.
**************************
Commentary:
There are people everywhere who will pay for quality but it is quite true that there are many who will jump in an underbid you if given the opportunity. This is only possible though if one compares apples to apples, not apples to oranges (or in my case pomegranates or calamondins or Surinam cherries). In other words, I set myself apart and do not compete on price nor do I negotiate fees. I can work within a budget if there is one but this needs to start in the $22-25/pp range (it is higher, usually, for small groups because of the time involved). This figure includes apps and the main meal but does not include beverages, dessert(s) or any services items (plates, utensils). I'll detail this more for those who might be interested somewhere downthread. The upshot: What I try to do is offer food as an experience, not simply food to feed x amount of people. 80% of the time we don't even discuss the food ahead of time. We discuss the nature of the party (celebration, get-together, event; casual or not; lunch, dinner, cocktail party, other; age range of guests; time of day), the number of guests and that's about it. I do whatever I want. 10% of the time we might discuss the main dish (only) in a little detail, and I make all the other decisions, and 10% of the time we discuss everything in much greater detail but I always leave myself wiggle room where it counts and/or make part of the discussion revolve around options so that I am not locked into every single aspect having to be just so.
This approach makes me not an 'apple' so it doesn't invite comparisons on that level. Though certainly I and my food can be compared to others and their food it is on other levels and it is more of an emotional or intellectual exercise and this distinguishes me and other higher end chefs from the pack, so to speak.
This brings up another point: Distinguish yourself. People don't refer to me as a caterer. I refer to myself in conversation as a private chef (my business card says 'itinerant chef') simply because I went from the commercial arena of restaurant kitchens to private work and never thought to call myself anything different; I had been 'Chef' for some time. Because I refer to myself that way others refer to me that way and it sets me apart in a way that, apparently, works for me. Nothing at all negative about the word caterer of course, but I'll take the distinction, any distinction thank you very much, wherever I can.
I am not of the give-them-what-they-want school of thought and this is distinguishing. There is nothing wrong with that approach but that's not what I do. I do not have a menu of items from which to choose, preferring to create the food based upon the type of occasion and what I think will fly and what I think will be memorable. I make the food accessible though, nothing so out there that people are afraid to eat it. For my own sanity, I do not combine many difficult items for a meal but I do make things with complexity, at least some things, and I do make things that look difficult even though they aren't terribly so. I want the hosts and guests to look at the food and think 'Wow' and I want them to taste it and think 'Wow' and I want to leave the impression that no one else but me would have come up with this menu and no one else but me could come up with it, could cook it. This certainly isn't necessarily so but that's the reaction I shoot for and it is how people remember me.
I don't compete (and I don't always do barbecue for parties--a bit better than half the time I do) so I do not have the ability to use this to my advantage; I cannot say 'award-winning' this or that. Others can use this as one of their distinguishing marks. Jim Minion has a successful catering biz in the Seattle area, Konrad east of there, and both have the props and the media to use to their advantage and both make good use of it. For them this is but one of their distinguishing marks. Get all you can; set yourself apart.
An aside on the personal criticism front: Whenever you cook, be it for your family, friends, or a gig, naturally you will be self-critical and this is fine. Do not under any circumstances verbalize your thoughts to those present. If you have a confidant--your wife, cooking partner, whoever--discuss it with them when prudent, but out of earshot of others, and preferably well after the event is done and you are back home or otherwise by yourselves, later. Do not let your face betray your thoughts if you are not happy with something during the event/meal. (If you are really not happy with something, if something is totally off, do not serve it. Apologize for whatever it is not working out and move on.) Attitude, as others have noted upthread, is very important. It is another quality one brings to the game, so to speak, and one must carry that attitude throughout. Self-criticize later. Allow your client and their guests (or your friends and family) to enjoy your food unmolested by even slightly negative commentary. Finesse any issues. Hold your head high. Look the part.
I am running a bit behind on my food flow front at the moment. At some point in the next few days I'll detail this party I'm doing, the fees and flow and why I made some of the choices I made in case anyone is interested and can use any of the info to help themselves. There are many ways to approach the business and many avenues to success. If anything I do or any way I do something can be helpful to someone else I'm will to share it in as much detail is required. Just ask.
***********
Steve--
I hopeyou tried the piroshki when you were at Pike Place--some of the best! And so true: There are many elements that make a meal special.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">detail ...this party I'm doing, the fees and flow, and why I made some of the choices I made in case anyone is interested </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm very interested in the factors and processes that are involved and I know others will be also. This has been a fascinating and enlightening thread.
Rita
I'm very interested in the factors and processes that are involved and I know others will be also. This has been a fascinating and enlightening thread.
Rita
Bill Hays
TVWBB Platinum Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rita Y:
... This has been a fascinating and enlightening thread.
Rita </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I agree ~ This has been one of the best reads in my time on this board.
... This has been a fascinating and enlightening thread.
Rita </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I agree ~ This has been one of the best reads in my time on this board.
Dale Perry
TVWBB Guru
Kevin, I have some sides that I would love to get some help with. Should I E-Mail the questions to you?
Gary Bramley
TVWBB Pro
No passion here….
. It is great to see!
In my career mediocrity is the norm.
My unwillingness to accept that has actually been limiting. Now, I was not the boss and performances were not a direct reflection of me, but an enjoyable experience it was not. How good do you think the overall quality of the operation was? For another aspect of my career I had some autonomy and was able to execute to the ability, quality and integrity that I was capable of... That was much more fulfilling. Succeed or fail it was “my show,” and it was not going to be for the lack on my account. Now, I don’t cater or have ever worked in the food industry. I can only imagine the challenges, and I won’t pretend to know. When I am putting dinner on the table for family or friends though, it is “my show.” I could go purchase a few pizza’s and all would be fine, and sometimes that is exactly what we do. But to take the time to figure out how put something on the table that is going to be enjoyed, and is of quality, is an opportunity (I believe this happens every day in differnt ways) to make choices. It takes work, but it makes statement about who I am…..... Pride was mentioned earlier in this thread, for me it goes beyond that...
Wow, that was heavy, anybody got a smoke?????
Q’n, Golf’n & Grill’n…. too many choices!
Gary
In my career mediocrity is the norm.
Wow, that was heavy, anybody got a smoke?????
Q’n, Golf’n & Grill’n…. too many choices!
Gary
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Yep, I feel like it is 'my show' whether I am cooking for $ or fun, whether I am serving 2 or 20 or 200. And yes, it 'goes beyond that'.
I am taking a quick breather. I feel like i am behind in my flow--but I always feel this way when I do these things and am quite used to it. Fortunately, I can abandon the conceit of sanity (or the illusion of it!) as i am here by myself zipping around the kitchen and re-working plans every few minutes based on the ever-changing feelings of what I think I need to be in the middle of next.
3 butts resting in a cooler, two sauces made, shrimp cooked and chilling, sauce for that made, slaw chilling, 2 eggs hard-boiled and cooling, 2 game hens poached and cooling, green beans cooled and 80% done, salmon smoked last night and fridged, sauce for that made, filling for one of two app pastries done. I am feeling behind though... .
Dale, yes, send me an e.
I am taking a quick breather. I feel like i am behind in my flow--but I always feel this way when I do these things and am quite used to it. Fortunately, I can abandon the conceit of sanity (or the illusion of it!) as i am here by myself zipping around the kitchen and re-working plans every few minutes based on the ever-changing feelings of what I think I need to be in the middle of next.
3 butts resting in a cooler, two sauces made, shrimp cooked and chilling, sauce for that made, slaw chilling, 2 eggs hard-boiled and cooling, 2 game hens poached and cooling, green beans cooled and 80% done, salmon smoked last night and fridged, sauce for that made, filling for one of two app pastries done. I am feeling behind though... .
Dale, yes, send me an e.
Pete Walbridge
New member
Sounds like an interesting combination of textures and flavors. Thanks for all your and others contributions here.
Pete
Pete
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
I am back home, fairly fried, and the dinner went very well I am happy to say.
The menu:
Apps-- Chilled shrimp with roasted red pepper remoulade; smoked salmon on romaine with cucumber sauce; cornmeal biscuits, served heated and split with a filling of fried queso de freir and pineapple-aji amarillo jam; two different briouat (Moroccan pastries with filo dough)--one with tomato-Turkish apricot-goat cheese filling with ras el hanout seasoning and a drizzle sauce of reduced tomato juice with Aleppo pepper, honey, Dijon and lemon, the other filled with poached game hen with toasted almonds, egg and parsley with a drizzle sauce of yogurt pureed with mango chutney.
Main--Pulled pork (with available rolls for sandwiches) with two sauces on the side--a KC-style sauce and another of tropical fruit; green beans with smoked ham hock, sweet potato torte, and a slaw of white cabbage, jicama, mirliton, mango, cuke and slivered red jalapeno with a tangerine-lime-crema dressing.
Details and pics forthcoming. BED TIME.
The menu:
Apps-- Chilled shrimp with roasted red pepper remoulade; smoked salmon on romaine with cucumber sauce; cornmeal biscuits, served heated and split with a filling of fried queso de freir and pineapple-aji amarillo jam; two different briouat (Moroccan pastries with filo dough)--one with tomato-Turkish apricot-goat cheese filling with ras el hanout seasoning and a drizzle sauce of reduced tomato juice with Aleppo pepper, honey, Dijon and lemon, the other filled with poached game hen with toasted almonds, egg and parsley with a drizzle sauce of yogurt pureed with mango chutney.
Main--Pulled pork (with available rolls for sandwiches) with two sauces on the side--a KC-style sauce and another of tropical fruit; green beans with smoked ham hock, sweet potato torte, and a slaw of white cabbage, jicama, mirliton, mango, cuke and slivered red jalapeno with a tangerine-lime-crema dressing.
Details and pics forthcoming. BED TIME.
Al Silverman
TVWBB Pro
Kevin,
Sounds like a masterpiece meal once again. I do have one question, Are you a private chef or a truck driver or both !!?? LOL Do you drive around crisscrossing the country delivering goods and cooking or do you just cook while in FLA.
Al
Sounds like a masterpiece meal once again. I do have one question, Are you a private chef or a truck driver or both !!?? LOL Do you drive around crisscrossing the country delivering goods and cooking or do you just cook while in FLA.
Al
Craig Castille
TVWBB Wizard
Kevin,
What's in the cucumber sauce?
Ps- were you able to get through Tampa and get the lump?
What's in the cucumber sauce?
Ps- were you able to get through Tampa and get the lump?