Ever wonder how good your Q really is?


 

Steve Petrone

TVWBB Platinum Member
Sometimes I think mine is just ok. Like most of you, I put considerable time and effort into it. Like many I do not compete.

Today I was with a client who has cooked Q for 18 years-no he does Not share recipes. He cooks for lage crowds at church fundraisers and the like. He uses a large electric rotis cooker with a log for wood smoke. On the way out he gave me a bag of chopped pork and a cup of sauce.

It just so happend I had defrosted a bag of pulled pork this morn. Time for a taste test.

For starters the sauce was apple sauce or apple butter based and it did not smell good or fresh.
It tasted even worse.

The Q was finely chopped by a machine and no bark. It was little better than the sauce.

So what about mine? I openned the ziplock and smelled wonderfull smoked pulled pork-truth is I did not have to taste it to know the difference. This was a great ego builder. If you really want to know how you are doing, just do a taste comparison. If you follow 1/2 of what we learn here, you put most anybody else to shame.
 
Cooking in small batches with lots of TLC is way different from mass production. Case in point, some of the worst BBQ I've ever had has come from concessions owned by some pretty notable (and successful) local competitors. I'm not sure what it would take to recreate your cooking on a grand scale but I'd bet it would be challenging. I'm not saying that it can't be done but when the food's being mass produced, it's more about money. The $$$'s come first and the quality can (and usually does) suffer. I'm not really trying to make a particular point here but it's almost like comparing apples and oranges. Nothing beats the BBQ with a personal touch IMHO.
 
Steve - er - Billy Bob,

Did you say a client?

It just might be worth thinking about using a pseudonym when posting this kind of opinion on the Internet.

Anon
 
Apples and oranges. You are right. I guess thst really is my point. Taking care to hand make anything is so very different than producing for many.

How about the flip side? How easy would it be to cook for 100? 30-40 is a challenge for me.
100+ forget about it.
 
My Wife and friends at work laugh at me because I always find something to pick at with my cooks, or something I want to try to make it better. Only complaints I ever get are from me lol.
 
Hello all,

I am very curious about this topic. First, what are we speaking of, cooking for a large group or for retail purposes? Many members of this site cook for large groups with great success. Keri C, how good is the Q when you load up your 31 sq ft cooker?
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Silly question, isn't it. For those that do cook for large groups and have restaruants I would be interested to hear from you. What are the variables that affect the end quality so much. If there is quality control why wouldn't a mass produced product be just as good?

Q'n, Golf'n & Grill'n.... too many choices!
Gary
 
Steve,
What I have noticed when I cook a big meal is that by the time it's ready I am less than hungry. I think it is because in the process I get so saturated w/ the smells etc.. If I wait for a while my appetite comes back and it tastes ok to me. But other really like it, so it works!
 
"Ever wonder how good your Q really is?"

No

I know there's better and I know I could do better, but I also know that if I tell the family I'm cooking, I have a houseful. So I'm not wondering anything except how I can do even better. That's one of the reasons I check in here on a regular basis.
 
Nope. I am not trying to stir the pot. My point is that the info here can teach most of us how to produce superior Q. Period.

The question regarding our hands on approach vs production is another question. I do not know many that will spend 30-45 minutes pulling a butt when there are many to cook. Will the butts be pulled one at a time when each one is done? There is no question that many folks on this site make superb Q in volume. Most the Q we encounter in public is not produced with the care most of us take when we cook a couple of butts.
 
The other thing to remember is that when you cook for yourself, you make the food the way YOU like it. You said the sauce you received was apple based, but maybe you like a vinegar based sauce, etc.

For example, I've only done 3 rib cooks, but I've already modified the BRITU to suit my tastes.
 
Steve, I know the stuff I make is good BUT I'm always tweeking either the recipe or the way I cook or something. I believe it can always be better. I don't think I've smoked the same way twice since I started. I'm not competiting so I'm not trying to exactly replicate anything. If I like something I change something that I think will add to it. If it doesn't than I try something else. Doing brisket tomorrow Goingto try a fast and hot with a different rub on top. We'll see how it goes.
 
One can cook for 2 people or 200 with no difference in quality. Quantity has nothing to do with it as long as quality is maintained but that happens less often than one would like.

There are several factors at play. I turned down a friend who wanted a barbecue for a party of 100 a couple months ago because the budget was $1200--less than half of what I'd charge. Would his guests have noticed a difference had they sampled my spread vs. the guy's who got the gig? Yes. Would they have valued my food at better than twice the price? Hmm. Some might, maybe many, but not knowing the guests it's hard to say. It depends on what people are used to, their level of taste sophistication, their sensory and intellectual appreciation of quality.

Many people I cook for don't even ask about the fee ahead of time. Yes, that says a lot about their pocketbook but it also says something about their expectations. They know that quality costs more and, like me, demand it, and more important, are used to getting it.

I could buy spices from some warehouse store, canned pork and beans, already made marinades and sauces, vinegars, oils and mayo from Sysco but I don't. It's not what I nor my clients are used to.

I realize this sounds elitist and I can't really help that. But I certainly do not mean to condescend. However, I've had numerous heated 'discussions' with people who seek intellectual leverage by reminding me that barbecue has always been a 'down-market' repast, nothing 'fancy'. I hasten to remind them that while that is quite true, in barbecue's early days--and for a significant period thereafter--feedlot beef and mass-produced pork were not the norm, 5-gallon buckets of food service mayo or dressings were not the norm, canned products were too expensive to be the norm, frozen vegs treated to retain color were not yet standard--and so on. Though I cetainly get 'fancy' with my barbecue (it's fun), I'd argue that my version of a traditional Q spread is far closer to its historical origins than most you're likely to find at joints or catering trucks who have succumbed to food-service-products-as-acceptable mentality.

This mentality has been the norm for some time now and not, of course, only where barbecue is concerned. Couple this with the mass market predilection for low prices and, well, they get what they pay for and what they get is quite obviously acceptable to many. That's fine but I think it's unfortunate.

There is nothing difficult about maintaining high standards when ramping up to produce food for a large party or even when making the jump from home cook to caterer or restaurateur--but it costs money and takes more time. It requires serving or cultivating a clientele who understand, appreciate or demand the quality and who will pay for it. Cracking and whipping a dozen free-range eggs for mayo instead of just one takes time (even opening small jars of quality mayo takes more time and costs more than opening a bucket of food service mayo), juicing a dozen lemons and zesting a half-dozen takes time and certainly costs more than simply buying a bottle or reconstituted lemon juice.

It's possible to ramp up production by employing key pieces of equipment, buying meats less expensively in bulk from a meat wholesaler or possibly a warehouse store, even buying a few food service items. But care must be taken when choosing where procedural details or food or flavoring items can be changed without compromising quality. Many people do not do this because, frankly, they either don't recognize the compromises themselves or think that their customers won't notice much difference. They're often quite right. Let's face it, how many likely Q customers ever barbecue themselves? Of those, how many carefully determine and select smokewood, perhaps grind their own spices, make sides from scratch?

Quite a few of us have commented to newbies here to be careful--that soon enough the Q they make will be much better than anything they're likely to buy somewhere. This can, of course, be expanded to include the sides and sauces, the apps and desserts. It can be expanded still further by seeking out quality spices and grinding your own, zesting and juicing a fresh lemon or a pineapple for a sauce, even growing your own tomatoes and chilies: It can be expanded as far as you wish to go. The food you produce then becomes a revelation.

Perhaps the time, circumstance and/or expense involved makes this approach daunting, only occasionally possible, or frequently or at times difficult. Sometimes the pineapples are green, tomatoes out of season, time constrained. I'd argue, then, that it's worth, when possible, taking the time and doing some experimenting to determine where procedural or food item details can be altered and still maintain a quality acceptable to you. This was once standard in restaurant menu development, irrespective of price point. The nearly complete hegemony of corporate restaurants at the low end (fast food) and lower end (the sundry chains like Chili's, Applebee's, Smokey Joe's et al.) with their reliance on foods prepped and/or cooked off site and merely finished in house has made competing at those price points virtually impossible or at least very difficult for the solo restaurateur with high standards. It hasn't helped that the decades-long push into the market of highly processed, artificially flavored, chemically stabilized food occurred. Many, many children, now grown up, were raised on practically nothing but. To answer Gary's question, we are sold the illusion of quality, the illusion of homemade, the illusion of fresh. The quality bar has been significantly lowered and, hence, expectations lowered--at least on the lower end.

There are glimmers of hope here and there. As much as I can't stand the Food Network, its audience does get at least some education from at least some of the chefs on the importance of quality of at least some of the items; the importance of adhering to some perhaps more time consuming procedural details rather than cutting that corner; the greater appreciation one feels from good foods prepared well. The movement of Whole Foods, Wild Oats, Trader Joe's and other specialized food retailers into more markets has upped the ante in many areas and caused existing chains to expand their offerings of higher quality (and yes, often more expensive) specialty and/or artisan items. Many more guests at parties I cook ask for specific details about ingredients and procedures than did, say, a dozen years ago--a good thing.

I will never be able to compete on price which is fine with me. There are people out there with the wherewithal and appreciation for quality so I don't have to. They are in the minority, yes, but that minority is growing.

Food snob? Absolutely. Guilty as charged.
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Kevin


P.S. Stir the pot!
 
Kevin,

I find what you say very interesting. Up until two years ago the only reason for me to go into the kitchen was to get a beer out of the fridge. My career went south, had a young family, budgets.... anyway our way of doing things at the time was expensive. I purchased a kettle and the first cook was an attention getter. Not that it was good, but there was a great deal of potential. Within a very short period of time, some good information (I added a WSM and found this website
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) the product coming off the grill became very good. As you said, taking the time to produce something for the sake of the product vs. convienance is huge. With that said my family enjoys some good eats at very reasonable costs.

I appreciate your imput.

Q'n, Golf'n & Grill'n.... too many choices!
Gary
 
Kevin, I am so glad you responded before I did. Twice I started a reply and twice I was interrupted. Your approach is certainly the exception. We should all be fortunate enough to experience an event catered by you.
 
Kevin, your post really strikes home, especially in the area of attitude.

I've recently begun cooking occasionally for groups of 30 to 35 and am still adjusting to the new factors of sheer volume, equipment, time allocation, transportaton, and how much I can do ahead -- and how far ahead I should begin (never early enough!). I just finished a cook of 8 carefully chosen chuck roasts, about 25 pounds, and was getting a little impatient with myself about the time it was taking me to pull out the connective tissue and small pockets of fat - longer than I'd planned and more work IMO than a pork butt would take, at least this time. But I refuse to serve the food with those parts in it and I'm glad I stuck with it, for I was satisfied, even pleased, with the end product. Persistance counts for something too. Each time I cook I see things that I can improve -- we never stop learning if we pay attention.

From what I read here, most of us on TVWB forums strive for perfection. Many are already as close as one can get; others are gaining on it cook-by-cook and it's inspiring to see how we help each other to that end.

If you don't mind, I'd like to forward your post to several friends under the title "A Food Philosophy to Dine For."

Rita
 
Gary--

Necessity can be motivating! I started teaching myself how to cook when young, when my mother returned to teaching school after my father left and came home too late to cook much (and, though a superb baker, my mother was very much a convenience-cook-of-the-50s/60s--frozen vegs boiled to death with, perhaps, a touch of salt), and I thought I could do better, and reduce her responsibilities and contribute in my own way to the family). I can think of many other points in my cooking life alone where personal or professional necessity has inspired me to try a different perspective, learn something new, or attempt a different approach. (I have had my share of disasters--which can really be motivating!)

Steve--

My approach might be the exception in some circumstances, markets or venues, to be sure. It is (one yet hopes) not the exception among higher-end caterers and restaurants.

On the home cook front, I always encourage people to try new techniques, foods and made-from-scratch recipes, and to seek the best quality ingredients they can afford, as you know. Not everyone wishes to make cooking an avocation but for those that do there is nothing quite as satisfying as turning out some really amazing food and quality ingredients can help get you there.

I would hope that were you or any member here able to attend an event I catered that my food would exceed your expectations. I set the bar high for myself as, for me, this is the ultimate motivator.


Rita--

You hit the nail on the head (in far fewer words!): Attention to detail whilst maintaining a positive attitude is reflected in both the quality of the food served and the satisfaction of the cook who prepared it. We never stop learning if we pay attention as you aptly note, and, especially with catering, paying attention during all the facets--menu development, marketing, purchasing, food prep, cooking and service, logistics--allows you to reap rewards and increase your personal satisfaction far more quickly

I am honored (and flattered) that you'd like to forward my post. Please do.
 
Thank you Kevin for sharing your opinion on this. It seems very close to the way we live.
One of the long standing rules in our family is that we do not eat at chain restraunts. We would rather give those dollars to local people, who try to cook the best food of whatever type, that they can. Especially when traveling, we go out of our way to find locally owned places because part of traveling is eating the LOCAL food.
At home, we buy very few prepared foods. We buy sausage, ice cream, some sauces, bread, most of our pasta and a few more items. Most of our food we cook ourselves from the best ingredients available. It's just a way of enjoying the food we prepare and eat. In the end, it's just another way of living and enjoying life.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
... I could buy spices from some warehouse store, canned pork and beans, already made marinades and sauces, vinegars, oils and mayo from Sysco but I don't. It's not what I nor my clients are used to. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Kevin - What you didn't say is that you would be embarrassed to pass off any of these mass-produced commercial products as your own. It goes beyond value and client expectations. It is a matter of pride.

It is my belief that when cooking for others, and especially for money, even our everyday standards must be raised.

Jim
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
One can cook for 2 people or 200 with no difference in quality... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You and I both know this to be true. I wasn't trying to say that cooking good food for large numbers of people can't be done, it just usually isn't done (unfortunately). The reality of getting dinner on the table for one family is much different from doing it for 100 families. Some are better at it than others, and I believe the differences come from both attitudes and abilities. Some have the capabitility but not the time, some don't have the ability but do it anyway. There's a thousand other scenarios that can be considered but the long and the short of it is that the BBQ that comes out of the humble little WSM in your backyard is probably going to be better than 90% of the stuff you can buy.

Food snob? Join the club brother!
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Agreed.

And when you said upthread, "The $$$'s come first and the quality can (and usually does) suffer." I think that that is true as well. It need not be like this. Attention to the details, attention and careful thought to what can be successfully altered (and what cannot) in order to compete at a particular price point is possible (for catering; or in order to keep costs of time issues in control if cooking for the family).

Though I don't choose to use them, I know many here have success with commercial sauces and commercial rubs, doctored to taste or not. I think that's fine. But sometimes it seems in lower end venues and with some catering concerns that there is almost a race to the bottom to squeeze out the extra dollar. Or a sense that so much is put into the illusion of quality that it supercedes or masks any quality that actually might remain. (I see this especially in chains.)

As Bill notes, there are locally owned places (though, sadly, fewer than there used to be) that do their best to provide good food. Even though they might cut a few corners to keep prices in line with what they think the market will bear, they try hard and it shows. As Jim correctly notes, it is a matter of pride, something missing from the presentation at many establishments.
 

 

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