Anyone Here Using this Coffee Grinder?

[LMichaels]

Well here is a strange twist. I just took out the smaller grinder. Judging by the sound I fully expected to see it running at least 75 RPM slower than the larger and much faster machine. Yet the smaller Shardor (Shidiip) was spinning it's burr 60 RPM FASTER than the larger and faster one. So the little one was running 410 RPM but MUCH more quietly. It too runs the burr VERY straight. There is no side to side movement or runout on either machine. Both have nearly identical burr sets and are the same size burrs 40mm IIRC. Yet the larger one is able to put out nearly 3X the volume in the same time period. So now I am really puzzled. It runs substantially slower, has same burr size but yields much higher. SMH here.

 

[Jay D in Jersey]

Well, I think I am pretty settled in on grinder and brew settings now. Been using the Shardor Precision https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BVTP8HWP/?tag=tvwb-20 and other than the static and retention issues I am finding it to be quite precise and accurate. Also quite fast. So to battle the retention issue it does include a "bellows", which mounts on top the bean container, And while grinding I do find a few "taps" on that bellows and it does blow out the retained grind quite nicely. Re, the static, I got a tiny little spritz bottle that sprays a very fine mist. So I have pretty much settled in to a couple or three little spritzes and a little stir in between. No more static and less retention as well.
With the Guatemalan beans currently using, I have settled on a "right in the middle" setting. Gives me a fine enough grind for good extraction but not so fine or coarse to either block things or cause water to simply flow through.
I am finding Gold setting on the Breville does a nice job, but also have found I get a slightly "richer" tasting brew by going to "my setting" and using a 40 sec bloom, 198deg brew temp, and slow flow rate.
No bitterness and just a nice richly flavored brew.
Next up after the Guatemalan beans I think I will give the SF Bay French roast another go, and do a little more paying around.
I may still look for a higher quality grinder but, I have to say at it's current $69 price on Amazon that Shardor is a very well put together unit. The burrs are very precise, the shaft runs very straight as well. I also took an opportunity to measure the rotational speed of the burr and with my electronic tach it shows it running at 350 RPM. I have not measure the speed of the smaller little grinder, but suspect it's a little slower. I may pull it out and test it some time though and report that as well.

Interesting you mention a bellows. I'm waiting for this gizmo to be delivered Friday: CAFEMASY Single Dose Hopper Compatible for Baratza Encore ESP Delonghi Grinder Bean Hopper Silicone Bellow Lid Coffee Grinder Cleaning Tools Air Blaster Pump Tool https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C7C3F54Y/?tag=tvwb-20

No real retention issue with the Baratza Encore, but I think it will also fit my other grinder, the Ariete at the beach house. That one does retain a tiny bit which usually is resolved by a whack or two on the hopper But for $12... OK.

 

[LMichaels]

I never gave it a lot of thought. I noticed it was included with that larger Shardor. Never really used it. I would simply give the unit a shake or a couple pats. Then I saw a video of someone actually using one on a pretty (IMO) high end ($500 or so) grinder. So on a whim I found the one for the Shardor, put it on and gave it a couple "blows". I actually did get IDK, maybe 1/2 to 3/4 tsp of grounds out into the catch. IDK what that was in grams. But, since I measure my beans out prior to the grind I just figured WTH, get everything out. I opened it up today to measure that burr speed and noted very little in the way of retained grinds in it. Actually was pretty darn clean. So I guess it does work after a fashion.

 

[GrantT]

WBoth have nearly identical burr sets and are the same size burrs 40mm IIRC. Yet the larger one is able to put out nearly 3X the volume in the same time period. So now I am really puzzled. It runs substantially slower, has same burr size but yields much higher. SMH here.

The cut of the burr is possibly the reason why - two same size burrs can have entirely different cutting profiles, optimized for different coffee styles etc. Some burrs are cut for general purpose usage, some optimized for fine/espresso/Turkish, some better for drip/pour-over and minimizing fines.

 

[LMichaels]

The cut of the burr is possibly the reason why - two same size burrs can have entirely different cutting profiles, optimized for different coffee styles etc. Some burrs are cut for general purpose usage, some optimized for fine/espresso/Turkish, some better for drip/pour-over and minimizing fines.

Would that make one set cut faster than another? I mean when I put the tach on the burr it blew my mind that the slower machine was spinning so much faster. Also, Shardor advertises this machine as geared to espresso drinkers. I have not tried it for that as my Mocca pot needs a new gasket. (yes it blew a gasket).
Both seem to do a fine job on the mid level grinds needed for my Moccamaster or my Breville. But it was pretty tiring on a larger pot to have to grind 2 or 3 batches at a time plus how slowly it grinds. Whereas the larger Shardor gets the job done (even on a full 12 cup pot) in nothing flat. Had I tried to make that full pot with the little one it would take at least 3 cycles due to the small grind container size and the very slow grind. Gets a little tiring when momma wants her coffee "NOW" lol.

 

[GrantT]

Oh definitely - and maybe not in an optimal way either.

One grinder burr set (for example) may be great at quickly reducing beans from their full size down to a specific grind, but it may also leave a lot of "irregular" size chunks that pass through the grinder when set at a medium setting for drip coffee...i.e. burrs never had a chance to "grind" those medium chunks down finer for the espresso setting it was optimized for example. Result - fast grind, but perhaps not optimal taste.

Whereas a grinder burr set optimized for drip/pourover (or more general purpose grinding) may be great at grinding for optimal taste for drip coffee, but may be a lot slower doing it when the grinder burr set is smaller.

From reading your posts, I think you are at hitting the top end of the coffee pyramid when it comes to both higher volumes AND your specificity and desired taste profiles. i.e. you've snatched the coffee bean from the hand, grasshopper, and are on a grinder journey!!

One thing that may want to look into is something like a used Mazzer grinder in your area. They are built like tanks and will easily last 25 years in a home use environment. You can easily replace the burrs that it came with for a set optimized for drip coffee. They were popular some years back with the espresso crowd, but went out of favor as they were not great for single dosing. They are fantastic grinders though for bulk use.

If you look at this page here, there is a lot of information on grinder burrs (for this Lagom grinder anyways) as well as a quick grinder flowchart too!

FAQ - Lagom P64 — OPTION-O

www.option-o.com

 

[LMichaels]

Holy caffeine buzz Batman you have my head totally spinning now YIKES! But, I AM gonna look into that. Would love to have something from the "mother country". Maybe a Christmas present to myself.

 

[GrantT]

Yeah...grinders are a totally whole new world of craziness when you start to really delve into them - careful of that rabbit hole!! For YEARS, people come to my house and see my main coffee grinder sitting there by my espresso machine and the questions start. I paid about $600 for it at the time, but that was about 15 years ago...and it will easily last another 15 (mine is a Macap M4D).

I mean, look at how much people here know about BBQs of all types. Now think of someone who has never used a BBQ asking you about what kind of BBQ they should purchase...the questions that arise become endless. Well, the coffee grinder "obsessed" are really no different. Most people just buy some cheap one and don't think twice about it. But once you start exploring flavor, grind quality, SCAA brewing, specific temperature brewing temps and start down the path...it leads to wanting the perfect grind too.

 

[Jay D in Jersey]

Yeah...grinders are a totally whole new world of craziness when you start to really delve into them - careful of that rabbit hole!! For YEARS, people come to my house and see my main coffee grinder sitting there by my espresso machine and the questions start. I paid about $600 for it at the time, but that was about 15 years ago...and it will easily last another 15 (mine is a Macap M4D).

I mean, look at how much people here know about BBQs of all types. Now think of someone who has never used a BBQ asking you about what kind of BBQ they should purchase...the questions that arise become endless. Well, the coffee grinder "obsessed" are really no different. Most people just buy some cheap one and don't think twice about it. But once you start exploring flavor, grind quality, SCAA brewing, specific temperature brewing temps and start down the path...it leads to wanting the perfect grind too.

Good post. There's a reason that so many people prefer specific grinders based on their taste for coffee. The espresso crowd has their favorites and the reviews and ratings reflect which are solid. The pour over and drip folks...the same. It's going to take some time for the Shardor and Ensoos and the plethora of brands and models now available(mostly on Amazon), to prove themselves as solid and worthy competitors going forward.
Yes, even the the more well known/respected and well reviewed makes and models are made in China...but to design specifications and with exact parts that are proven. Coffee grinders are not a challenge to reverse engineer but it's only recently(10 years?) that it's been interesting for companies to do so or so it seems.

 

[LMichaels]

Good post. There's a reason that so many people prefer specific grinders based on their taste for coffee. The espresso crowd has their favorites and the reviews and ratings reflect which are solid. The pour over and drip folks...the same. It's going to take some time for the Shardor and Ensoos and the plethora of brands and models now available(mostly on Amazon), to prove themselves as solid and worthy competitors going forward.
Yes, even the the more well known/respected and well reviewed makes and models are made in China...but to design specifications and with exact parts that are proven. Coffee grinders are not a challenge to reverse engineer but it's only recently(10 years?) that it's been interesting for companies to do so or so it seems.

Yeah, now today. I went to grind my morning 60 grams of beans, my Shardor went into an E2 error which for whatever reason supposedly is "over heat". How? I had literally pushed the start button only 3 seconds prior

 

[Scott C.]

Just catching up on this interesting thread. I've had the Baratza Virtuoso+ for about a year or so that I absolutely love. No doubt, it's a little loud and as with all of them, it retains a little of the grind, but nothing that a little tap solves. Zero static issues. What sold me on the Baratza is the support which is top notch. Even after the warranty, they are known to be very helpful in sending out any of the internal parts at bargain costs and offer assistance and instructions in the swap. Not many manufacturers do that nowadays.

Btw, my GF has Shardor CG835 and it's total garbage. The adjustment knob makes almost no difference and even at the coarsest setting, it's like powder. That with the terrible static, you end up losing alot and it's a heck of a mess. I offered to buy her a Baratza too, but she got the Shandor from one of the kids so she feels obligated to keep using it. I contacted Shardor and they were of zero help. 6 Month warranty and you MUST have the original box. I gave up. Would not recommend them.

 

[GrantT]

Yeah, now today. I went to grind my morning 60 grams of beans, my Shardor went into an E2 error which for whatever reason supposedly is "over heat". How? I had literally pushed the start button only 3 seconds prior

It might not differentiate "overheat" from "overload" perhaps? Do you start the grinder with the beans already in the hopper? That does place more load on the motor as the burrs basically are at full load when the motor goes from full stop to start. I wonder if the motor is already starting to go. I think most grinders have a large capacitor inside the circuitry to "boost" the motor startup - it could also be going perhaps....who knows what is inside these little Chinese grinders.

As I use my grinder as a single dose grinder, I start the motor with the hopper empty, then dump the beans in over about 4-5 seconds as my beans are typically light roasted and even harder to grind as well.

When you compare these grinders to the "monster" motors in the larger, commercial grinders, you can instantly (and without doubt) see the reason for their additional cost, but longevity/power.

 

[LMichaels]

Btw, my GF has Shardor CG835 and it's total garbage. The adjustment knob makes almost no difference and even at the coarsest setting, it's like powder. That with the terrible static, you end up losing alot and it's a heck of a mess. I offered to buy her a Baratza too, but she got the Shandor from one of the kids so she feels obligated to keep using it. I contacted Shardor and they were of zero help. 6 Month warranty and you MUST have the original box. I gave up. Would not recommend them.

Honestly don't know about that model. Got to disagree on the support issue. In both cases for me they not only refunded my total purchase price but sent me new machine to boot. Honestly I call that pretty good service. The kind more companies should give. Static on my larger one is not a HUGE issue actually quite tame, unlike the smaller one which is non existent. But, I think now that is more a function of how the bigger one grinds so much faster. In both cases the burrs look to be extremely well made and run very precisely. Honestly WAY better than the much higher priced OXO, I gave up on and seems so highly rated. In both cases they run pretty slowly as well. My gripe(s) with the little one is how slow it is (though does a beautiful job), and how small the ground capacity is (needs 3X to do a full 12 cup pot), and while it's pretty imprecise the adjustments do actually work. It's only that the clicks are not "positive" and you need a few clicks either way to get any movement in the burr setting. But, it does grind VERY VERY well, makes a good pot of coffee. And it is EXTREMELY quiet. VERY important when we have the babies over.
The larger one has this weird E2 occasionally (has happened twice since August when I got it). IDK if that is an impeachable offense for something that works so well otherwise. It also as mentioned has a touch of static (though with 1 or spritzes from my little pocket spray bottle of very fine mist) static is a non issue as well. Though this AM I totally forgot to spritz the beans and no static. Could be the beans as this was the first time I had ground these beans with no spritz. But, it too does a VERY nice job on the grind, and also makes a nice pot of joe. Though it makes just a bit more sound (likely because the motor is quite a bit more powerful) but certainly not anywhere near the OXO or the large KitchenAid flat burr grinder I had which could wake my neighbors. Same was true on the OXO for noise. Loud screeching noise.
Noise is a HUGE issue to me because we have babies here so often and I don't want to be bothered by a woke up baby on my first cup o joe in the AM.
So while I might upgrade here soon, it will likely be the new KitchenAid conical burr or the Breville Smart Grinder Pro. Both noted for how quietly and static free they operate

 

[GrantT]

The one problem with virtually ALL sub $300 grinders is (besides being plastic and typically loud) that they all use smaller/cheaper internal components and this impacts their longevity, almost without fail. They will last 1 year, maybe 2, and their cheaper burrs are pretty well worn out by then even if the grinder still works.

The next step up you start looking at $400-$500, and at this price range there is an emerging market of better mid-grade grinders, but this is where you ALSO find a large aftermarket of used commercial grinders. These commercial grinders are just so much better that it is really worth looking at them as they will last decades. As long as the motor shaft is not bent, a new set of burrs and you are set for 20 years. The downside to them is they do not single-dose very well for espresso shots, which is the current trend in espresso grinders. For espresso shots, people want to pour in 18g of beans (and often change beans daily) and get 18g of grinds out.

Hop on craigslist, kijiji, ebay etc and look for Mazzer Mini, Mazzer Super Jolly (Mazzer Major/Robur are huge in size, so I would avoid these). There are a ton of Mazzer clones out there as well as many other commercial grinders. They key thing to look for is availability of replacement burrs. As some of these grinders could have had thousands of pounds of beans ground in them, the burrs usually need replacement. They can easily be disassembled, painted, cleaned, and virtually as good as new. You can replace the huge bean hopper with a much shorter "home" sized one and off you go. Some have the front "doser" where you click the lever to dose out...these can also be replaced with 3D printed spouts etc too. to make home use better. Also reduces the bulk of them.

Replacement burrs are available and to optimize for drip coffee, espresso grinding etc.

 

[Scott C.]

Honestly don't know about that model. Got to disagree on the support issue. In both cases for me they not only refunded my total purchase price but sent me new machine to boot. Honestly I call that pretty good service. The kind more companies should give. Static on my larger one is not a HUGE issue actually quite tame, unlike the smaller one which is non existent. But, I think now that is more a function of how the bigger one grinds so much faster. In both cases the burrs look to be extremely well made and run very precisely. Honestly WAY better than the much higher priced OXO, I gave up on and seems so highly rated. In both cases they run pretty slowly as well. My gripe(s) with the little one is how slow it is (though does a beautiful job), and how small the ground capacity is (needs 3X to do a full 12 cup pot), and while it's pretty imprecise the adjustments do actually work. It's only that the clicks are not "positive" and you need a few clicks either way to get any movement in the burr setting. But, it does grind VERY VERY well, makes a good pot of coffee. And it is EXTREMELY quiet. VERY important when we have the babies over.
The larger one has this weird E2 occasionally (has happened twice since August when I got it). IDK if that is an impeachable offense for something that works so well otherwise. It also as mentioned has a touch of static (though with 1 or spritzes from my little pocket spray bottle of very fine mist) static is a non issue as well. Though this AM I totally forgot to spritz the beans and no static. Could be the beans as this was the first time I had ground these beans with no spritz. But, it too does a VERY nice job on the grind, and also makes a nice pot of joe. Though it makes just a bit more sound (likely because the motor is quite a bit more powerful) but certainly not anywhere near the OXO or the large KitchenAid flat burr grinder I had which could wake my neighbors. Same was true on the OXO for noise. Loud screeching noise.
Noise is a HUGE issue to me because we have babies here so often and I don't want to be bothered by a woke up baby on my first cup o joe in the AM.
So while I might upgrade here soon, it will likely be the new KitchenAid conical burr or the Breville Smart Grinder Pro. Both noted for how quietly and static free they operate

I will give their support email another try, but I provided that same feedback and was told to send it back in the original box on my dime. For a $40 grinder? They didn't budge an inch on the missing original box issue, so that stopped things dead on the tracks. Hopefully the next person might be more accommodating. If not, I might have to make up a lost during shipping, toss it, and just buy her a better machine. Glad you like yours.

 

[LMichaels]

LOL, I started perusing FleaBay and CL for those. If I spent that much on a coffee grinder I would have no place to use it as I would be living in the street. Or doa as wife would put a hit on me

 

[LMichaels]

I will give their support email another try, but I provided that same feedback and was told to send it back in the original box on my dime. For a $40 grinder? They didn't budge an inch on the missing original box issue, so that stopped things dead on the tracks. Hopefully the next person might be more accommodating. If not, I might have to make up a lost during shipping, toss it, and just buy her a better machine. Glad you like yours.

They did not even ask me to send the original ones back either. Though quite honestly I did return them prior to receiving their email to simply keep them. So I actually had sent both back. Therein lies the issue communicating a world away is time/date difference. Plus things get lost in translation.

 

[GrantT]

LOL, I started perusing FleaBay and CL for those. If I spent that much on a coffee grinder I would have no place to use it as I would be living in the street. Or doa as wife would put a hit on me

You *tell* your wife when you buy something ?!? Please do not let that get around...setting the rest of us up for a bad time!

You buy it first, then sneak it in and use it. Got to make sure it is not returnable! Even better yet - time the purchase to throw away the packaging on trash day!. Then, explain why it was such a great deal. Now, get her to go buy a new dress and all is forgiven!

Seriously though...you can purchase a used Mazzer grinder, use it for a couple years, and probably sell it for the same price after those two years as well.

 

[LMichaels]

You *tell* your wife when you buy something ?!? Please do not let that get around...setting the rest of us up for a bad time!

You buy it first, then sneak it in and use it. Got to make sure it is not returnable! Even better yet - time the purchase to throw away the packaging on trash day!. Then, explain why it was such a great deal. Now, get her to go buy a new dress and all is forgiven!

Seriously though...you can purchase a used Mazzer grinder, use it for a couple years, and probably sell it for the same price after those two years as well.

Sometimes I tell her. Sometimes I don't. I think while there may be "some" difference on drip coffee based on whether I use a grinder that costs the GDP of a 3rd world country or a more reasonable product like what is currently on the counter or upgrade to a Breville, a KitchenAid or a Baratza the differences may not be worth the expense. Also those really high end ones are really geared to the crowd that does their own roasting and spends a lot more $$$ on a bag of beans than my modest $5-$7 per pound at Costco or Sam's.
I am not going to rise to that level of doing that, and using a tasting spoon and so on. I just want a nice rich smooth tasting cup o' Joe in the AM from an easy to buy and use grinder, an equally easy to buy and use coffee maker and sip away while I peruse these boards and or laugh to Hogan's Heroes.
I have a mocca pot. IDK the brand, but it was from a whole bunch of them my uncle brought here when he emigrated from Italy. Makes good stuff but, have not used it in years as I have no clue how to get another gasket for it. As it came here with him in 1958. You put water in the bottom, the water turns to steam and the steam goes through the bed of coffee, shoots out a "nozzle" in the top and condenses into a drinkable "espresso". But, in my case it blows it all out past the gasket all over the stove.
Anyway closest I come to espresso. Though when it worked what it made was really good. Put a little grappa in it and a little sugar. Good stuff Maynard.
In any case After living with the Breville Smart Brew, and learning how to manipulate it's water settings, it's brew settings and such, I have it "dialed in". I now am getting a very nice, smooth and rich tasting cup, a little Agave nectar and a touch of cream, and oh boy it's good. Of course it's "dialed in" for my organic Sumatra beans. IDK if the settings will work on the SF Bay French roast beans, or my Guatemala El Vergel dark roast, or the Costco Colombian Supremo. I guess I will need to experiment to find the sweet spot with those as well. But, the important thing? Is that now with the tools at my disposal I know I CAN find the sweet spot for every bean at my disposal. And I am having fun doing it.
I guess if I ever got to the point my son in law is at where spending a few thou on a coffee setup would not bother me, then who knows. For now I am having a good time, doing, kibbitzing here and tasting

 

[Jay D in Jersey]

Yeah, now today. I went to grind my morning 60 grams of beans, my Shardor went into an E2 error which for whatever reason supposedly is "over heat". How? I had literally pushed the start button only 3 seconds prior

That's why the LED screen or touch screen feature seems more of a gimmick than a functional part of the design. A knob or dial would have worked just fine on a device like a coffee grinder.