Too much smoke theory.


 
M

Michael W

New member
First off, I am no expert on this topic. Just looking for some incite. Why is it that the BBQ joints in Texas can cook with nothing but oak logs and it is not over-smoked. However, putting on more than a few chunks on the WSM can over do it. Obviously there is a size difference between the WSM and the big brick pits but that can't be the whole answer?? Any ideas would be great.

Thanks,
Mike
 
Mike,

I'm no expert either but I did spend the night in Texas
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. Most of the large pits in the central Texas region that I'm familiar with burn oak or pecan logs. These pits cook at higher temps as opposed the the old 'low and slow' method. Thus, the meat is cooked faster and exposed to less smoke. Also, out here in TX, beef is king. Beef is much more forgiving than other meats as far as smoke is concerned. Chicken and sausage are the next 2 popular meats; and those are generally cooked at high temps also. You don't find a lot of pork out here other than some ribs.

Paul
 
My personal theory(s) are:

a) The pit is larger with better air circulation.

b) combustion is more complete as a result of "a". I have seen a fist sized chunk last for 6 hours in a WSM.

c) The guys cooking on those pits know more about what they are doing than the avg. WSM guy.

d) They like heavier smoke flavor in Tejas.

e) Most folks run both vents wide open on an offset, or in ground BBQ pit. Alot of WSM guys try choking down for low temp and max burn time, thus trapping smoke in the unit to stagnate.
 
No pro here either... but having seen some of the "pit" style cookers I can say that they definately cook hotter then your WSM. When you see flames licking from around logs you know that's MUCH hotter then your wood chunks get and it may contribute to less "smoke" as it burns cleaner.
 
No first-hand experience here, but I've read that pre-burning the wood is a preferred method for the offset pits.

As in pre-fire the wood in a barrel and shovel only the hot embers into the smoker.
 
Originally posted by Matt_G:
No first-hand experience here, but I've read that pre-burning the wood is a preferred method for the offset pits.

As in pre-fire the wood in a barrel and shovel only the hot embers into the smoker.
Click to expand...

I think you're right. They aren't using "fresh" wood throughout the whole cook. Much of the cooking heat is from hot embers with little smoke production.
 
I'm going to go with the "hotter, cleaner burning" hypothesis.

I ran an offset once, thinking I could apply my wsm knowledge. I was shocked by how much fuel they suck up and how little heat is transferred to the cooking chamber. You need a rip roaring blaze in the fire box to get your cooking chamber much over 220*. with a nice blaze, and plenty of air circulation, there won't be much smoke.

I talked to a guy who runs a backwoods, which is similar to the wsm in that your fire box is under the cooking chamber and he was saying how much less smoke wood he uses with it when compared to his old offset. he had a nice selection of all these samples of exotic smoke woods that he used with the backwoods, and which would have been pointless if he still ran the offset.
 
Here are a couple of responses:

1) I cannot get my offset as hot as my WSM if I try! I can get the WSM over 400 and my Klose has hardly ever been over 300. (once I had a greasfire that got it there!)

2) I doubt if 2% of all stickburners "pre burn". The ones who do are mostly in Missouri, and The Carolinas. I know at least 100 guys in Tejas, and the only "pre burner" I know is in Toledo, Oh!!
 
1) I cannot get my offset as hot as my WSM if I try! I can get the WSM over 400 and my Klose has hardly ever been over 300. (once I had a greasfire that got it there!)
Click to expand...

it was more a point of efficiency. uprights transfer heat to the cooking chamber far more efficiently and therefore require a much smaller fire to run <250* (think: smoldering). Conversely (and as you nicely stated), offsets need to be practically set on fire to get >220* (think: blazing). I was basing my "smoke quantity" on what was going on inside the fire box, not the cooking chamber.

hopefully that clarifies my logic.

The point about air flow is also worth discussing. I typically run the wsm with all lower vent closed. Running the offset requires the damper to be fully open. more O2 probably results in a cleaner burn.
 
I cooked with a cheap horizontal a lot for years before I bought a WSM. Didn't pre-burn, but pre-started to let coals develop. Not so different than the WSM, just more fuel and different type.

You don't want black smoke, you want blue white colored smoke. Takes longer to get the engine running but when you do you just add sticks of wood (splits) as you go to maintain temps.

The smoke you are seeing is or should be "good" as in blue white smoke. Not white or black.

I would load the firebox with cherry typically because I had a boat load of that - get things up to temp and smoke contol then add sticks of the flavor wood as the cook progressed to done (typically hickory or oak).

That firebox is HOT. As you add fuel once everything is going you don't get much start up black or white smoke it ignites pretty quickly and turns to blue white.

At least that's what I used to shoot for.
 
i grew up in lockhart texas. i have been making lockhart style bbq on huge offset self made trailer smokers for around 20 years my father has been doing it for closer to 50. the difference is that the WSM is far more efficient in how it uses fuel compaired to an offset. with an offset whether it is on protable wheels and handle or on a trailer or built into the side of a restraunt made out of brick or stone or whatever offset style are incredibly inefficient.

in the offset style you have to burn large amounts of wood at much higher temperatures to get the same amount of effect. an 18" wsm takes a half bag of charcoal (lump or briq) and a couple chunks of fist sized wood for smoke. an offset that sits on a trailer or sits in a restraunt takes a load of wood that would fill the bed of a chevy silverado. since the fire in a offset is so hot much of wood is more eficiently turned into heat fast rather than letting the wood smolder as in a wsm.

now days a lot of bbq joints use electric ovens and liquid smoke and prep the meat ahead of time and use the old style pits as mere showpieces. alot of the bbq joints also switched to charcoal and designed their pits around efficiency.

but basicly its a function of efficiency. offsets lose 90% of the smoke and heat without it being used the WSM uses 90% of its smoke and heat with only a slight loss.

after cooking on offsets for most of my bbq career the wsm is a god send and whomever invented it needs an award.
 
Many of the "joints" that Michael referred to in his original question use masonry pits. Many of those do pre-burn their wood. I'll be doing about dozen or so briskets in 2 weeks on an old masonry constructed pit. We just burn oak logs (no pre-burn) in it; but it does cook at higher temps. The pit itself (no fire box) is about 15' long and takes a fair amount of wood to get up to temp. We can load about 24 whole packers on it at a time. With all of that meat, we just burn whole logs for the entire smoke. Due to it's length and construction, it's very hard to get good seals all around it so a lot of air moves in and out of the thing. The briskets never turn out with an overly heavy flavor of smoke.
 
Now Jon, your "Silverado" analogy may be just a tad of an exageration!!! ; Speaking of Lockhart ,I love the little single serving buttermilk pies at Kreuz Market! Great trip for ANYBODY who loves BBQ!I have done it four times We went to Luling last year and it was not as cool! Funny thing about Luling was, the best BBQ we ate there, was not at the City Market,but rather came from a temporary roadside pit with an awning over it on the way back over towards I-10! It looked like it was there for the winter, but definitely not a permanent esablishment!
 
Everybody's dancin' around it but it doesn't sound like anybody's nailed it. Here's my attempt: Smoke production is all about oxygen, as many an old boy scout can confirm (assuming that new boy scouts can't play with fire these days because it's too dangerous). Smoke wood smolders in the WSM, making lots of smoke from a small piece, because you have the oxygen source choked down to the point the piece will not ignite. You are actually making charcoal out of your smoke wood.

This is why you need to put chips in a foil packet to make them smoke. Chips are much easier to ignite because of the increased surface area. Foil excludes the small amount of oxygen in the WSM, making a micro-environment of even lower oxygen, which prevents flaming the chips.

I've never used a stick burner, but if you are going to generate any significant heat with wood you must be giving it lots more oxygen than in the WSM with charcoal. Some smoke will be generated as well, but proportionately less.
 
Thanks for the info guys. A lot of valid points. Jon from Lockhart, the reason I asked was because I was down in Austin a couple weeks ago, made the trip down to Lockhart twice. Ate at Kruez and Smitty's. I really wanted to try and crank out some Brisket and Ribs as good (or as close to) as down there. I really can't get that same smoke flavor. My brisket turned out really good. My ribs, not so much. I'm from Canada. The spare ribs I've found so far are not nearly as meaty as down there. Not sure why. I gotta say, you Texans have some amazing BBQ!!
 
Paul, I forgot to mention. I checked out Louie Muellers east of Round Rock. Quite impressed with that place. I can't replicate that on the WSM. I'll keep trying though.
 
That must be it. The pathetic spares I've found here (Calgary, Alberta) are hardly worth cooking. Kind of dissapointing. I don't know where to find meatier ones.
 
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