Smoke Ring


 

Greg Weiss

New member
Hi All - new to the message boards. The other day I did my first brisket on my WSM. I had a 5 1/2 pound brisket and smoked it at about 250-275 for a little over 6 hours using a mixture of hickory and cherry - using the minion method as a starter. I got the tenderness and moisture that I was going for, but I'm still missing the dang smoke ring. I left it in the aluminum pan for the entire duration to keep the moisture in and so the bottom wouldn't dry out. Is that what's hindering my smoke ring development?
 
I started with about 5 chunks of hickory and about 3 chunks of cherry (both dry). During the duration of the cooking, I added maybe another 5 chunks of hickory in total (about 1-2 per hour) and another 2-3 chunks of cherry.
 
I would guess that leaving it in the foil pan hindered the formation of the smoke ring, especially if it was in there the entire time.
 
A smoke ring is not a function of how much wood you put in the smoker. The ring is a function of meat temperature, humidity, and smoke. Once the meat is to a particular temperature, the smoke ring stops forming. Putting meat in straight from the refrigerator helps because it stays below that temperature for a longer time.

Here is an article.

Smoke ring stops forming at 140F, but the meat will still absorb smoke flavor.
 
I know this will seem a little OCD but I weigh my smoke wood. I use 16 ounces for brisket and I try to add it in equal amounts at time 0 and every 30 mins thereafter for the first 2 hours and no more for the rest of the cook. I understand the temp issue but I was under the impression that it also absorbs more smoke flavor at the lower temperature as well. Q
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Terry L:
I would guess that leaving it in the foil pan hindered the formation of the smoke ring, especially if it was in there the entire time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>It did.

Cooking in a pan will not 'keep the moisture in'. What it will do is block much of the smoke from even hitting the meat surface, thwarting the smokering, especially if you cook - mistakenly -fat side up.
 
Another mistake being made here is saying meat absorbs smoke. Smoke is adsorbed by meat meaning it sticks to the outside of it. It does not penetrate into the meat.

Lots of things affect smoke flavour such as the amount and type used and the moisture content of the wood, basting or spritzing the meat can also have a washing effect causing you to lose smoke flavour.
 
So you're suggesting to smoke it fat-side down out of the pan? That to me seems contradictory to almost everything I've read. I can do away with the aluminum pan - but fat side down? Please explain.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">So you're suggesting to smoke it fat-side down out of the pan? That to me seems contradictory to almost everything I've read. I can do away with the aluminum pan - but fat side down? Please explain. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're new, so I'll cut you some slack
icon_smile.gif
. But spend some time around here and you quickly learn that most stuff on the internet and bbq books is painfully wrong.

generally, wsm users cook fat side down because we have heat coming up from the bottom. The fat acts like a heat shield, keeping the flat from overheating and drying out.

Meat dries out through evaporation and overheating. Meat stays moist through the conversion of collagen to gelatin, keeping the meat temp low (not allowing the protein to tighten to the point is squeezes out its associated moisture), and fat marbling. About all a pan will do is collect drippings. Cover the pan with foil and you'll reduce evaporation, and increase efficiency of heat transfer.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Terry L:
I would guess that leaving it in the foil pan hindered the formation of the smoke ring, especially if it was in there the entire time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>It did.

Cooking in a pan will not 'keep the moisture in'. What it will do is block much of the smoke from even hitting the meat surface, thwarting the smokering, especially if you cook - mistakenly -fat side up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kevin, do you follow Chris's instruction on the page for the HH brisket as far as putting it in a foil plan after it hits an internal temp of 170 and finishing in foil. Just curious as I know you recommend the HH method for brisket.
 
thanks for taking it easy on me...I'm sort of learning by trial and error on my own. The reason I joined this forum was to be able to ask questions and learn from everyone else's experiences.

That being said, would you also recommend pork shoulder fat side down as well?
 
There's a bazillion different ways to do this stuff. For instance, I smoke a low and slow (225 - 250* @ 2 hrs per lb) brisket flat fat side up (fat trimmed to ~ 1/4 inch) ...but without a pan. I get a great smoke ring and it's never dry.

I pretty much trim all the fat cap off a butt. The marbeling throughout adds enough fat for me. Therefore, there is no fat side up or down on my butts.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Kevin, do you follow Chris's instruction on the page for the HH brisket as far as putting it in a foil plan after it hits an internal temp of 170 and finishing in foil. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No to both. I do not care for foil pans for brisket nor do I temp them.

On the first: I prefer HD foil. I do not like too much space around the brisket - just an inch or so, plus a couple inches headspace. Personal preference.

On the second: I Minion the start using about 22-25 lit and load the meat in immediately. I start the clock. The temp trends up of course. At around the 2.5-hour mark I foil. (When I've checked temp at that point it (people often ask) has been anywhere from 150 to 160). Imo, 170 is too high.

I then check the brisket about 75 min after foiling. It is usually done 10-20 minutes after that.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">That being said, would you also recommend pork shoulder fat side down as well? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't trim butts and do cook fat side down, usually. For butt, this is because its weight and the rub can sometimes cause some sticking to the grate. If this occurs the fat gets left on the grate when I remove the butt.

Briskets (I only do packers) I either don't trim at all or, occasionally, I'll remove just a bit of the knob of fat between point and flat on the packer's side. Fat side down. It's so easy to trim when slicing for service if serving to fat averse people. For my serving I leave it on.

That fat up makes or keeps the meat moist is a myth. In typical kitchen oven cooking the fat side is up for other reasons.
 
Well Greg the folks addressing your question up thread will treat you right. Definitely for high temp Kevin has it together and I follow his method pretty much, along with some of what Chris offers. That doesn't mean I haven't learned from all the other folks on the board.

I started cooking briskets late in my Q game. I haven't had a bad one yet using a combination of their advice. Basically high/moderate heat. I do foil, I do protect the ends with HD foil, etc. I have used a foil pan during that process and also found the HD foil wrap actually does work best although the foil pan add convenience for me and doesn't affect the results all that much IMHO. Use HD foil for the wrap first though until you get the process down and know what you are shooting for over all.

As for me - if you have the brisket cook down to where the finish texture and all is good and the only thing missing is the ring you are in excellent shape. That's secondary and will happen by itself. The meat just needs to spend maximum time (as realistic) under 140 degrees. So put it on the rack cold right out of the fridge. Use the minion as you say, maybe with even less lit. The time spent under 140 will maximize the ring.

A simple adjustment.

Congrats, you've really licked the brisket cook. The ring and other stuff are ancillary IMHO. Rub, spices, ring will all come. You are started from a great base line. Don't tweak to hard to get the ring, it doesn't add flavor, texture, moistness, etc which should remain primary.

More time under 140 degrees is the key so just slow down the fire at the onset and keep the meat cold before you place on the rack.

Consider a larger cut. Get a big flat. The one you mention is small by my standards. So the larger the mass the longer it will stay below 140 degrees. I like larger flats regardless and wouldn't pick a 5lb unless I was making corned beef or pastrami.

For smoking/Q I would use a whole packer which come in around 18 pound give or take. If I'm smoking/Q a flat it needs to be 8 lb minimum and thick. Look for what local butchers or markets call a "first cut" brisket. Anyway it's basically a whole pakcker with the point removed and maybe the thinner tip.

Just slow the start of the cook down to stay under that magic number longer and you will get there. But - don't jeopardize you process just to get the ring.

Shooting for 275 degree cook temps will suffice. Cook hotter and you will shorten time just need to be more digilent about checking for done with the probe test as the "done window" will pass you by more quickly. Cook slower/lower and that window of "done" will pass slower and give more time to adjust.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Greg Weiss:
Hi All - new to the message boards. The other day I did my first brisket on my WSM. I had a 5 1/2 pound brisket and smoked it at about 250-275 for a little over 6 hours using a mixture of hickory and cherry - using the minion method as a starter. I got the tenderness and moisture that I was going for, but I'm still missing the dang smoke ring. I left it in the aluminum pan for the entire duration to keep the moisture in and so the bottom wouldn't dry out. Is that what's hindering my smoke ring development? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
 
Greg, if you really want to be adventurous try a HH frozen brisket. Take the brisket right from the freezer,rub down with spices and throw on the WSM. Great color !!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I spray my briskets with water about every half hour or so. The water asnd steam help with smoke ring </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

are you doing this early in the cook?
 
Okay, so I'm going to try again with the following modifications:

1. Cooking outside of the aluminum pan
2. Cooking fat side down
3. Starting with less lit coals (about 1/2 of a chimney)
4. When it gets to around 170 internal, wrap in HD foil to finish cooking.

Does that sound right?
 

 

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