She was hotter than a two dollar pistol


 
S

Steph V

TVWBB Member
Hi Guys,

Last week I completed my first cook on my WSM 22.5. I cooked St. Louis Ribs. The cooker ran very hot and 32 hours after the cook the charcoal was still smoldering to the point that I just re-opened all the vents and let the charcoal re-catch and burn itself out. Clearly I need some answers.

First of all. I cook Harry Soo style (No water in the pan with a foiled pan). I seasoned my WSM exactly the way Harry said to do it. Also, I do not use Kingsford (My wife is very sensitive to the smell and taste of Kingsford). I do use Nature's Best all natural Briquettes (which I've been told tend to burn quite hot). Anyhow, I used the Minion method starting with about 21 ashed over Briquettes on top of unlit fuel with smoke wood buried. I completely encased the water pan (without water) in foil.

I fought to bring the heat down to the 270 range all day. I initially hit 325 but I was able to eventually get it to hold at 265 but it took tremendous effort over the course of roughly 3 hours to do so. I was also closing down all bottom vents 100% and closing the top vent down to the half-way point to regulate the heat. Also, I was using the Maverick remote Thermometer.

I have seen many people on this board say to use a clay pot or a pizza stone to serve as a heat sink. However, I am a little confused on this issue. Will using a pot or a pizza stone help hold the temp down low or drive it up? If it will help me keep temps lower then that is great but which is the better solution (The pizza stone or the clay pot)? If it is the stone, does anyone have any suggestions on a brand name and what is the right size pizza stone to foil inside a 22.5 WSM?? I spoke to Weber about all of this and they said to keep using the cooker and that I need more gunk build up and that the gunk will help hold the heat down as time goes on. This makes sense to me. However, I am concerned about the fact that the coals were able to reignite after 32 hours with all vents closed. If I do have an out of round issue, then you certainly can't see it with the naked eye...I really don't want to fool with using water because I believe what Harry says about dry heat being best for bark. Please give me your opinions regarding these issues. Also, I am sorry to create a new thread for this. I have read the existing threads and I am a little confused.....Thanks.
 
I've got an 18" so I'm not sure about size of saucer.

Any terra cotta saucer (NOT a pot or a pizza stone) of the right size (Home Depot, other hardware outlets carry suitable ones) will do. Wrapped in h.d. alum foil (keeps it from asboring any and most grease).

Like this:
50925991.jpg


With all the vents closed, the only other inlets are the side door, the mid section (top and bottom joints) and the lid.

Just have to cook more
icon_smile.gif
to provide more sealing gunk.

I usually use boiling water and temps remain constant at 225 but you might try using cold next time. It'll suck more heat out in your cook.

More experienced folks will add more info real soon.
 
When ya assemble the mid section on the base, give it a twist (rotate) till it binds.
If you are slightly out of round that (besides more use) will help on a seal.
I've never used the NB au natural brigs, but if they are similar to the K comp then I've never been able to shut down and save any of those either. IME the smallest amount of air will keep them going till a complete burnout.
What target temp are you shooting for 270? Mine coasts along @275 w/ the empty foiled pan.Took a bit for a good seal to build up, but after that no problems.
Try shutting your bottom vents down to a sliver when your about 25deg shy of the target, and see how that works.
Good luck!

Tim
 
Part of the problem is that your initial temp was well over your target. Definitely use fewer chimney coals (8-12 are plenty) and close your vents down to about 25 percent or so sooner.

I had the same problem on my first couple of cooks. I just wrote it off as the cooker being new but that wasn't the major problem. I cooked a couple of beer can chickens on my second cook. My target was 325 and I got my cooker slightly over 400. Took forever to get it back down. Chicken turned out well but I knew I had to work on temp control a little more.
 
Len, Timothy, and Gary

THANK YOU! All of you. I plan to take your advice. I am so happy to hear that I need to have MORE FUN to solve a problem! Ha Ha! Unfortunately, I may not be able to fire her up again next weekend. I'm probably 2 weeks away from my next cook due to business but man I can't wait. I think I'm going to do a butt for the next cook....That should really get the grease flying all over the cooker. I will keep ya'll posted on the results.
 
Carefully check for out-of-round, and if cooking low-n-slow, it's easiest with water in the pan as the wsm was designed. I wouldn't even think of skipping the water for cooking slow until the cooker was much better seasoned. Makes sense to try water at first, and then try dry a few cooks later to see what you think.

By the way, you can get "good" bark either way, cooking wet or dry, but like most things, there's pros and cons either way. Harry foils comp. style, and yes, there's a good argument made for cooking dry if foiling. Bark develops faster, so you can foil early as Harry does for more efficient cooking. Foiling dilutes smoke flavor, but regardless, lots of folks cook with water pans and still foil. Different strokes, and different ideas on what bark is supposed to be like.

If I'm not foiling, I've got water in the pan. I'll usually not foil spares, but from the get-go I keep the fire hot enough to keep the pan simmering, temp target of 225 while meat is cold, and ramping up to about 250*. This really helps with keeping the bark moist and tender.

Good luck with it.
 
Dave-Thanks for following up....I very well might need to go the water route until I've had many more cooks (My reluctance toward water also has to do with my not wanting to clean the water pan aka lazy) but you are right I may not have a choice at this point in the ballgame.

Len-I picked up a terra cotta saucer this evening. Those things are so cheap "why not" give it a try?? Here are a couple of questions. First, when you use the saucer do you foil the saucer and then stick it in a dry water pan and then foil the water pan OR do you simply foil the saucer and set it on the brackets without the water pan at all? Second, I've seen other ideas online about using Lava Rocks, and placing foil balls in the water pan. Have you ever tried combining any of these techniques with with the clay saucer to REALLY hold that heat down? Everyone else, please feel free to chime in on this Second part....Thanks in advance....I greatly appreciate everyone's help.
 
Steph,

I foil the water pan leaving a concave surface about an inch or two deep, then I foil the saucer and place it inside the water pan.

I suppose you could get away with not foiling the water pan, but this way if there are drippings from the meat that miss the saucer, they would hit the foil on the edge of the water pan.
 
Steph,as been said many times on this site controlling temps on the way up is a heck of a lot easier than trying to fight them down.I would monitor my temps closer on the way up.Maybe start shutting her down 20- 40 degrees away from your target.Let the temps ease up to your target.Then make minor adjustments.
 
Bruce-Makes great sense....Thank you

Paul-Yep. I am living proof of it. I don't want to sound overly conservative but I may close the 2 lower vents completely (and leave one about 1/2 open upon assembly. This will be in addition to starting with about 10-12 Briques as opposed to 21-25 Briques and with the saucer....If this doesn't work then I'll break out the water.
 
Agree with the above. Way too much lit to start. If you're doing Soo style, I guess you're trying to hit around 275F. I've found that you really need to know your starting fuel for that temp. The usual 225F is easy, the HH 350F is tougher but trying to stay at the middle is challenging. I use a Stoker which makes life easier.

BTW - Try closing your top vent when you get a big overshoot. Along with the bottom vents this should choke the fire down pretty quick. If not, you definitely have leakage problems.
 
Controlling oxygen to the fire is the issue, but that's the issue even with tight and well-seasoned cookers when it comes time to foil ribs with no water in the pan. Hopefully, when the dome is off, you won't learn the hard way that the amount and size of wood chunks you started off is more important than whether you started off with 15 or 20 briquettes. Even if working fast and being careful to keep the dome on as much as possible, you don't want any decent sized chunks of wood left to catch fire at foiling time.

In your case though, you might try some of the RO Chef's Select (big) briqs from doitbest.com. Pretty dern good price and free shipping to a nearby participating hardware store, no Kingsford smell or taste, and they burn slower than other fuels I've used. GFS food service briquettes is another one, but not as good a deal.

Anyway, lots of folks end up cooking HH in the 22.5" wsm, whether they want to or not if cooking without water. Amount of meat matters as well, but even if you use a clay saucer or sand, temps will typically climb after opening a dry-pan cooker to foil so make sure temp is a little on the low side before foiling. With mass in the pan the rise in temp won't be as fast, but shutting the vents can seem futile for quite a while, so don't put your fire out.
 
Guys,

Sorry to take so long to post back....I've had so much stuff going on. And I have been crazy busy with work. Anyhow, I wanted to say thanks on the advice and report some news back (Actually thanks again to everyone who has chimed in on this). Len-A 14 inch saucer fits the 22.5 but it is a TIGHT FIT with no foil on the saucer. However, a 14 inch is doable. The 12 inch saucer fits very easily. Ok, so I opted to go with the water pan full and smoke two 6.5 pound boston butts this weekend. This is my first cook since rib day. I did an overnight smoke starting late friday evening and going well into Saturday. Dave-I think you hit the nail on the head....WATER...Yep that cooker dialed in and held temp like a champ. I started with 10 lit NGP briquettes and a full charcoal chamber with a few hunks of smoke wood...I had absouletly no problems whatsoever. I gave the mid section a turn when I assembled the cooker (thanks Timothy)I was able to get control of the temp right from the start and when I wanted it a little hotter I could do it and when I wanted to back her down a bit I could do it. Everyone that ate the pork loved it and I couldn't be happier from that perspective (I thought it was a tinge dry and so did my wife) but I served it up Memphis style with sauce on the side so maybe next time I should sauce it a bit before serving (I did foil the butts and let them sit in a cold oven for one hour before pulling the meat). The bark was intense...no troubles whatsoever. James-To answer your question about the ribs. Yes, 275 was my target temp on the ribs but only because Harry Soo said so....I had no intention of foiling that day because it was my first cook on the WSM and I just wanted to see if I could get through the day without ruining perfectly good meat. I will consider foiling in the future because it seems like all the pro's do it. What got me focused on cooking at 275 was when Harry said that 275 renders the fat in a St. Louie rib much better. That's why I figued 275 was where I needed to be. At this stage of the game I should probably stick to water in the pan for about the next 10 cooks (minimum)and let the fat continue to gum up the smoker before trying my hand at using a clay saucer for ribs and chicken. I doubt that I will ever go without H20 on a large cut of meat. In other words, apply all of Harry Soo's techniques, but do so using water "in the pan". Since I don't compete, I have all the time I need. I'm still a little concerned about the incident that happened when I cooked the ribs. I was unable to snuff out the fire completely when I closed all the vents. It wasn't a factor this weekend because I smoked for about 16 hours and the charcoal was essentially spent at that point. I will report back if I see this happen again on my next "short" smoke with ribs or chicken. It's not that I want to reuse the charcoal (Although I'm not above doing that sort of thing)..I just want to know that the fire is out. This is one of the best websites in the history of websites. I can't thank you guys enough for your help...I know this was a long post but a lot of topics did arise and I wanted to make sure I didn't leave anything out...You will be hearing from me in the future I am sure.
 
I didn't see where anybody else asked this. how much charcoal did you use? I know it was your first cook but when cooking ribs (4-5 hours) you dont have to fill the ring completly as you would when doing butts (12-14) hours. I am new at this WSM so I could be off its still a learning curve to me also
 
Hi Mark-I think you are right....No need to load the chamber for a 4-6 hour smoke. That is exactly what I did. The ribs turned out great but it was a fight to keep the temp down. I used a full chamber of coal and a dry foiled pan. Next time on ribs or chicken, I will go with a half chamber of coal and 2-3 chunks of smoke wood and a full pan of water.
 
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