Secret to moist brisket?


 
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David Lohrentz

TVWBB Pro
I don't do briskets all that often, but when I do, then tend to be a little dry in the flat.

Does it help to add liquid when foiling them, and do you foil for the last part of the cook?
 
I never marinade, spray, or foil my briskets while they are cooking, and I think they come out OK. My first brisket ever, I took it to 185 and then took it off, foiled, and into a cooler for a couple of hours. I thought it was a tad dry - I figured every thermometer is different so 185 was a tad dry for *my* thermometer.
Since then I pull my briskets when they are around 180-182 - still plenty tender - just not so dry. I let 'em rest foiled in a cooler for a few hours before I slice.

So, what temps are you taking your brisket to? How hot do you run your smoker? It may be worth noting that I tend to put my briskets on the bottom "shelf" and run the smoker at about 220 - 240 at the top grate (where the butts are).
 
I take my brisket higher up to 193 or so and let it rest a couple hours. Brisket to me is the hardest piece of meat to get right. But its getting better!
 
I just made a 12 pound packer yesterday, and it was my best/moistest to date. It was also one of the strangest...

I always take my briskets to 188-190 and then rest them in a cooler with foil for 2-3 hours. This one, though, sat at 180-182 for what seemed like forever. I got nervous and began doing occasional "fork tests" and "wubba wubba jiggle" (from somewhere on this board) tests. The brisket passed, so I pulled it at 182.

A while back, I would have told you a brisket that comes off at 182 is not done. But that's where the "art" takes over from the "science" As they say, the meat is done when *IT* decides it is done. Learning to read that is a key to good BBQ. I'm not there yet, but I sure got lucky on this last one!
 
I usually cook them to internal of 190-194. The one that I did Friday night I went to bed at midnight with the cooker at 250 in the lid. When I woke up at 8 AM the WSM was 200 in the lid while meat had an internal temp of 190.

Where is the best place to probe for internal temp?
 
David--

I like a spot right around the middle of the flat. I usually enter from the side so I get a good feel of the meat but not always--sometimes it is easier to go in through the top. Because I use a thermocouple therm it doesn't matter temp-wise. (It wouldn't with a thermistor therm either.) If using a bimetal therm go in from the side far enough so the tip passes the center by an inch or a bit more.

Your original question: Yes, foiling can help retain moisture. Adding liquid--if needed--can work as meat's potential to absorb moisture increases as it cools. The trick with foiling is not to do it so early that the meat stews and gets pot roast-y. Ditto with adding liquid to foil during cooking (gotta be careful how much and when)--many don't; they just add a little, if needed to the foil for the resting phase. Try a few approaches and see what you think.
 
Originally posted by K Kruger:
David--

I like a spot right around the middle of the flat. I usually enter from the side so I get a good feel of the meat but not always--sometimes it is easier to go in through the top. Because I use a thermocouple therm it doesn't matter temp-wise. (It wouldn't with a thermistor therm either.) If using a bimetal therm go in from the side far enough so the tip passes the center by an inch or a bit more.

Your original question: Yes, foiling can help retain moisture. Adding liquid--if needed--can work as meat's potential to absorb moisture increases as it cools. The trick with foiling is not to do it so early that the meat stews and gets pot roast-y. Ditto with adding liquid to foil during cooking (gotta be careful how much and when)--many don't; they just add a little, if needed to the foil for the resting phase. Try a few approaches and see what you think.
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Mr. Kevin,

I have the instant Thermapen. Should I go in from the side?

What is a bimetal therm?
 
Before I had a wsm, I made brisket on a kettle using a raichlen recipe. He suggested placing the brisket in an aluminum foil pan, fat side up.

This made for a juicy brisket as the brisket stewed a little in its juices.
 
I have the instant Thermapen. Should I go in from the side? What is a bimetal therm?
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Either way. Going in from the side gives you more to feel, in a way, but temp-wise either is fine.

A bimetal therm uses the relationship of two metals that expand at different rates as they warm and cool. Its reading is actually an average of temps from the tip of the therm to a point 2-3" up the probe (depending on the therm). Thus, it shouldn't be used for thin items (and is why it needs to be used from the side; a point 1-1.5" from the tip needs to be the point that hits the center). Indeed, a thermocouple or thermistor is better--and faster--for food.
 
Originally posted by K Kruger:
A bimetal therm uses the relationship of two metals that expand at different rates as they warm and cool. Its reading is actually an average of temps from the tip of the therm to a point 2-3" up the probe (depending on the therm). Thus, it shouldn't be used for thin items (and is why it needs to be used from the side; a point 1-1.5" from the tip needs to be the point that hits the center). Indeed, a thermocouple or thermistor is better--and faster--for food.
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So... tell me something I don't already know...
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just kidding of course. Is there anything you don't know? I was going to throw out some old engineering calculus problems, but I don't remember anything about it and I'm sure you'd know the answer anyhow.

OK, back to the point of the original question, now that I've digressed significantly... I think the key - and I mean the ONLY key to moist brisket is to, simply, not over cook it. Problem is, that just isn't simple with brisket. Adding liquid to the foil doesn't help with moistness. It can be great to do (I do it sometimes) because it adds some liquid that you can later use in a sauce for the brisket, but the brisket itself... and by that I mean the internal moisture of the brisket simply requires it to not be overcooked, since brisket doesn't absorb any added liquid (though it can mask a lack of moisture, just like sauce can).

I like to think of cooking the perfect brisket as two trains heading toward eachother on different tracks (I'm remembering an algebra question right now). On one track is moisture. On the other is tenderness. You lose moisture the longer you cook. You could pull your brisket at 170 and it would be incredibly moist. Only problem is that it would be tough as jerky to chew. So... the other train is tenderness. Well, tenderness moves in the opposite direction... the longer you cook it, the more tender it gets (to a point, obviously). So, if you pulled it at 200, it would be really tender. But dry as sand.

So, the key to making great brisket is finding that perfect moment when the two trains intersect - when you get to great tenderness without going past the point of moisture loss. The reason brisket is hard is because that point is pretty short. With pork butts, you could fudge a lot and still end up with a great product. With brisket, its a short window. And, as Kruger mentioned above, if you speed up that cook (speed up those trains) its an even shorter window and thus much harder to get that right intersection.

Most folks think that intersection happens somewhere between 815 and 190. Personally, I find that if I go anywhere above 190, I've already squeezed out the moisture. when that happens, some folks call it "pot roast". It has that kind of stringiness you get when you braise something for ages. The little fibers squeeze out the moisture like a sponge, but the don't reabsorb them... sad little sucker is beyond the point of good brisket, in my opinion. Only sauce can save it...

But, truth be told, it is far more dependent on other conditions - the actual cut of meat - the temperature you cook it at, etc. So, that is why folks have such varying temps they offer for brisket... it really depends on how they personally are cooking it.

Anyhow, since this is an old post, likely no one will read it. Which is probably a good thing since I've been rambling. But, if by chance, some poor soul has actually read this, I hope it helps clarify the moistness in brisket question...

good luck chasing those trains...
 
David,
I did a brisket from UWP on Saturday. Didn't foil it, didn't baste it. Let it get to about 182 and closed the bottom vents. Let the brisket sit there for a couple hours. I thought it was very moist and tender. Even the wife liked it, and she's not usually keen on Q.

How's the wood working for ya?
 
Adam. I cooked at a comp this past weekend against some folks that travel all over the country cooking at comps almost every weekend. I watched how these guys cooked their brisket who were from Texas. They had more trophys on display than I wanted to count.
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They dont use just foil, but pans full of juice or marinade or whatever. In fact most every team was soaking their briskets. We opted to try juicing our brisket too. We took 2nd place for brisket. I have been sayimg for over 2 years on this forum that I cant cook brisket but not anymore. It was, well I thought perfect. But in truth, I didnt use my bullet but my used my pull behind pit. We have been practicing alot the last month or so pulling the meat off of the pit at different temps and out of about 10 briskets, we found a winner at 192.6 to be exact. Might have been luck. I did use the bullet to win first place in anything butt!
 
Dale, congratulations on the contest results. Could you be more specific in how you "juiced " the brisket.What did you turn in for "anything butt"
 
Hey Paul. I am going to try and put some pics up later in the Comp Forum. As for the juice as I call it, is just a marinade that we came up with. The trick is to (8&680y & @#!* + XYZ) and that is it!
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I would rather eat pot roast than shoe leather so we just decided to go higher with the internal temps and juice the brisket, then let it rest longer since every other brisket we have made without marinade has been tough. Lets just say we were desperate.
 
Dennis--Nope.

Dale--So, essentially some or much of the cooking is braising? Interesting. Congrats on the 2nd and, echoing Paul, what did you win the 'anything' with? Good show.

Adam--Meat's develops an ability to absorb liquid as it cools. How much depends on the condition of the meat when it starts cooling and the type and availability of the liquid, and of course what point the meat is cooked to is paramount. A brisket cooked till dry and stringy is not all of a sudden going to suck up a few cups of stock and fat and become moist and tender (would!). But it can take on some, again, depending. (One sees this in classic meat braising and stewing where the meat is allowed to cool (either a bit or even overnight) in the braising liquid.)

Your other observations are apt and the two-train analogy is a good one. The moment of connection is fairly short. Foil can extend this time somewhat as can finishing the cooking via residual heat. Certainly, cooking immersed can too as can adding plenty of liquid to the foil during cooking (same thing) but then there's that barbecue/braise line and the pot roast thing. That's a personal preference decision. (Btw--you would've had me with the calculus. I know it not.)
 
We won 1st place with salmon that we grilled on the bullet set up like a kettle. It couldnt have been cooked by us any better.

I guess you can say that the brisket is braised but actually we cooked it on the pit just like you would on a bullet except for the last few hours. I dont want people to ruin their briskets by braising them, lol, cause we aint making corned beef & cabbage. Most of the cook is done with low temps and smoke. There is more to it and a million ways to screw briskets up. I know because I have cooked more bad brisket than good. Im just stoked about the last few we've cooked. I always swore that PP was the best but now prefer the flavor and texture of brisket. I just never had any that was worth eating.
 
Dale, you say that the cook is similar to what we're used to except for the last few hours and that most of the cook is done at low temps. Are you saying that the brisket is going into the pan toward the end of the cook and that you're bringing the temp up at that point too? Not asking you to reveal any secrets, but are we talking a jazzed up beef broth type of thing for the pan? Thanks.
Oh, and congrats too!
 
Kirk, that is it. In fact, we have tried all kinds of marinades and broths. If over cooked the brisket will dry out and or fall apart no matter how much marinade you use.

After some thought, I want to make clear that this is new to us. We have been making some of the worlds toughest brisket ever cooked trying different things. Trial and error. Failed experiments. You name it. We just found something that worked for us. My team mates and I have a few different opinions on what makes this work, but we arent going to change a thing during comps. The piece of meat has alot to do with it.
Try some experiments. To me that is the fun part when something new you try out works.
 
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